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Topic: The Government Cannot Outlaw Bitcoin, it's Impossible! - page 2. (Read 6945 times)

sr. member
Activity: 574
Merit: 250
Bitcoins can be printed on paper, copied, bound, copyrighted, and self-published. One could then tear out pages and transmit them. Shall we outlaw books?


Did you bother to read previous posts?  Some printed materials are outlawed,  try and print dollars even in a book form.   Or to see them really stretch the existing laws, read about the recent Liberty dollar case.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
Bitcoins can be printed on paper, copied, bound, copyrighted, and self-published. One could then tear out pages and transmit them. Shall we outlaw books?
Certain types of pornography is illegal. There are more types in Canada than in US. US has outlawed books with those, and there are certain types of books that you can buy in US from Japan, but is illegal to poses in Canada.
I like the claim that government can outlaw anything. Especially if it's to "save the children," and it's very easy to see how Bitcoin can be targeted with that.
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
Bitcoins can be printed on paper, copied, bound, copyrighted, and self-published. One could then tear out pages and transmit them. Shall we outlaw books?
sr. member
Activity: 574
Merit: 250
Bitcoin transactions will be added to the taxcode at some point.

It already is in most countries...

Please cite your evidence for this, or I will assume you are bluffing. Show me where bitcoins are added to a country's tax code.

They would fall either under the barter or the capital gains codes.


It cannot be. It has to be tied to something, and it's it's own currency and value changes daily.

And yet it is.    Call up the IRS and ask them if using a different currency makes things untaxable.   How much to you want to bet on the answer?

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=113437,00.html for example shows they want taxes dollars or not on exchanges.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251
Bitcoin transactions will be added to the taxcode at some point.

It already is in most countries...

Please cite your evidence for this, or I will assume you are bluffing. Show me where bitcoins are added to a country's tax code.

They would fall either under the barter or the capital gains codes.


It cannot be. It has to be tied to something, and it's it's own currency and value changes daily.
sr. member
Activity: 574
Merit: 250
Bitcoin transactions will be added to the taxcode at some point.

It already is in most countries...

Please cite your evidence for this, or I will assume you are bluffing. Show me where bitcoins are added to a country's tax code.

They would fall either under the barter or the capital gains codes.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251
Bitcoin transactions will be added to the taxcode at some point.

It already is in most countries...

Please cite your evidence for this, or I will assume you are bluffing. Show me where bitcoins are added to a country's tax code.
hero member
Activity: 740
Merit: 500
Hello world!
Bitcoin transactions will be added to the taxcode at some point.

It already is in most countries...
sr. member
Activity: 574
Merit: 250

Anyone care to explain here just how a government can attempt to outlaw bitcoin?

Something like:


1) all transactions must be denominated in and carried out using our legal tender

2)  anyone doing fx or any international trade  must be licensed,   and per the terms of the license only approved units of trade may be used.


Total FAIL.

Currently, it's legal to create your own alternative currency. There are 100's already throughout the US. If it was possible to outlaw them, the government would have already.

Forex is not bitcoin, again, it relates specifically to "financial instruments" and "financial transactions" which bitcoin are neither, in fact, or legally considered. And they cannot ever be considered legally "financial instruments" or "financial transactions".

Bzzzttt..... wrong answer.

The fact something is legal now is irrelevant to the fact it could be made illegal later.  As a small example, consider private ownership of gold.   Now go read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102  .  If they were willing to make it illegal and seize all the gold in the county, they sure as heck would have no qualms about making currently legal alternative currencies illegal.

As for your second paragraph, it says nothing.  It changes nothing  about the fact that they can make any trading outside of approved denominations illegal.  

So ...  yeah, you predicated your response right from that start.   It was total fail.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251
Anyone care to explain here just how a government can attempt to outlaw bitcoin?

By outlawing the use of the concept rather than any particular implementation of it.

The law and associated penalties would only need be harsh enough to destroy market confidence.  It wouldn't take that much.

You cannot outlaw the use of a concept that injures nobody.

They did it with "gay" for a few decades/centuries, so why not?

Good Point! But were not living in the Dark Ages anymore, either.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251
Bitcoin transactions will be added to the taxcode at some point.

Impossible!

You cannot add "Beanie babies" to the Tax Code and you cannot add an intangible series of numbers as a taxable issue. Taxes are charges of interest on money loaned to the people. Example, we only started the Income Tax after the Federal Reserve Act, because the tax was to collect interest on the national debt. So, so cannot take something unrelated to the economy and tax it. You can tax sales, so people selling bitcoins from their business, need to pay taxes on those sales. But bitcoins themselves cannot be taxed. People selling bitcoins to each other without businesses are not taxable sales. Just like you would not need to collect tax at a garage sale.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251
Which government?

The one that shut down ThePirateBay.org.

Bitcoin does not sit on a server somewhere.
P2P has not gone anywhere just because Napster was taken down or PirateBay was seized.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251

Anyone care to explain here just how a government can attempt to outlaw bitcoin?

Something like:


1) all transactions must be denominated in and carried out using our legal tender

2)  anyone doing fx or any international trade  must be licensed,   and per the terms of the license only approved units of trade may be used.


Total FAIL.

Currently, it's legal to create your own alternative currency. There are 100's already throughout the US. If it was possible to outlaw them, the government would have already.

Forex is not bitcoin, again, it relates specifically to "financial instruments" and "financial transactions" which bitcoin are neither, in fact, or legally considered. And they cannot ever be considered legally "financial instruments" or "financial transactions".
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251
GOVERNMENT CAN DO WHATEVER IT WANTS

for real. unfortunately.

People are the REAL government, in fact, not fiction. Real people can do even more than government because real people make up government and real people ARE IN FACT, Government.

So, I agree, the people can do whatever we want!
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
Anyone care to explain here just how a government can attempt to outlaw bitcoin?

By outlawing the use of the concept rather than any particular implementation of it.

The law and associated penalties would only need be harsh enough to destroy market confidence.  It wouldn't take that much.

You cannot outlaw the use of a concept that injures nobody.

They did it with "gay" for a few decades/centuries, so why not?
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251
In order for the government to effectively outlaw bitcoin, they would have to outlaw the exchanging of encrypted numerical data. Nothing short of this, could effect bitcoin, legally.

if I follow your reasoning, in order for the government to effectively outlaw violence, they would have to outlaw the exchange of kinetic energy ?



Violence has always been controlled by societies. People cannot be allowed to go around injuring others irresponsibly. That is a real, REAL crime. It makes no sense to compare this to bitcoins.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251
I think the theory is that the governments will collude and force all supporting sites to shut down.  What happens when you are no longer to move money into and out of an exchange?  I know the long term hope is that we no longer will need exchanges, but I think it's a required mid term step.

I read this article about egold and it scared me.   http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/06/e-gold/

In order to shut down all supporting sites, they would have to force foreign governments to work for them, to do their dirty work. I don't think Antigua is getting rid of their pro gambling laws because the US government is losing business to offshore entities acting illegally against the interests of American citizens. So, they may be able to shut down Tradehill, but they cannot touch Mt Gox from the US, unless they go after Mark personally, then there are always more exchanges.

E-Gold was stored physically somewhere, was not it's own currency, since it took US deposits to convert, it could actually be considered a money laundering operation. Bitcoin is not. Your not buying something that represents currency, it's actual currency.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 251
Anyone care to explain here just how a government can attempt to outlaw bitcoin?

By outlawing the use of the concept rather than any particular implementation of it.

The law and associated penalties would only need be harsh enough to destroy market confidence.  It wouldn't take that much.

You cannot outlaw the use of a concept that injures nobody.
Destroying market confidence may be almost impossible as well, because no matter what anyone says, i'll always have bitcoins if I choose liberty over security.
legendary
Activity: 3598
Merit: 2386
Viva Ut Vivas
America is a nation of the people, by the people. If your president are going to ban bitcoin, just go to the street and vote another candidate who are for bitcoin.

LOL!!!

You must have read these United States' Constitution and thought that it had anything to do with our government.

Government is now of the corporations, by the corporations. And whichever corporations can spend the most on advertisements for presidential candidates which will sway the sheeple into voting for what they want wins.

See Germany circa 1940s...
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