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Topic: The Holographic Principle (Read 2068 times)

legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000
Enabling the maximal migration
January 21, 2013, 03:40:32 PM
#25
There's nothing about perception or memory in that link. And it describes an experiment that has yet to be completed. So you're wasting our time with this stuff.

If you really want to know about perception and memory, read the book. If you're too lazy to do that, just watch this: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/5957800/Michael_Talbot_-_The_Holographic_Universe_(Thinking_Allowed)

donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
January 21, 2013, 05:09:18 AM
#24
ctp.itp.ac.cn/EN/article/downloadArticleFile.do?attachType=PDF&id=12541

This one is out there, but kind of what I was expecting Wink Rotational systems in fluid mechanics have some really weird entropy and thermodynamic behaviour, much of it to do with non-equilibrium effects and there is always the Mach principle to be aware of when describing boundaries for total system entropy .... Anyway, as I suspected this author seems to suggest some really strange artefacts inside Kerr geometry blackholes when using entropic gravity formulation.

".... this force represents the repulsive force acting on superradiant co-rotating modes."

... cue the anti-gravity loons in 5, 4, 3, 2 ...
This may be very close to what I've been looking for. I'll have to struggle through the math, but they use similar language to my hypotheses of hypertoroidal energy, gravitic temperature, and fractal space-time expansion.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
January 21, 2013, 04:59:26 AM
#23
ctp.itp.ac.cn/EN/article/downloadArticleFile.do?attachType=PDF&id=12541

This one is out there, but kind of what I was expecting Wink Rotational systems in fluid mechanics have some really weird entropy and thermodynamic behaviour, much of it to do with non-equilibrium effects and there is always the Mach principle to be aware of when describing boundaries for total system entropy .... Anyway, as I suspected this author seems to suggest some really strange artefacts inside Kerr geometry blackholes when using entropic gravity formulation.

".... this force represents the repulsive force acting on superradiant co-rotating modes."

... cue the anti-gravity loons in 5, 4, 3, 2 ...
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000
Enabling the maximal migration
January 20, 2013, 12:49:11 PM
#22
... predicted the holographic nature of perception and memory

Predicting something doesn't count for anything unless the thing is later discovered to exist. Please point me to any experimental evidence linking memory and perception to anything holographic.

There are ongoing experiments (see below) testing the principle, but that's not what I was saying. The principle itself is backed in the knowledge and experience of two of the most brilliant physicists and neuroscientists of our time. It's not as you say, something "Talbot pulled out of his ass".

http://phys.org/news/2010-10-holometer-universe-hologram.html
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000
Enabling the maximal migration
January 19, 2013, 03:51:03 PM
#21
Michael Talbot just pulls that out of his ass. There's no science behind it.

The book is based on the science from these two guys, so I'm not sure what you are talking about:

David Bohm, widely considered one of the best quantum physicists of all time and protégé of Albert Einstein and the quantum physicist and a neurophysiologist at Stanford University, Austrian-born, Karl Pribram, who, in fact predicted the holographic nature of perception and memory.
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
January 19, 2013, 03:12:03 PM
#20
Incidentally, the term "holographic" is somewhat misleading. There's no experimental evidence (nor is there a theoretical requirement) that the information is arranged holographically on the surface of a black hole.

So don't be distracted by the terminology. It's just a "popular" way to convey the concept that the information capacity of a 3-D object is proportional to its surface area rather than to its volume.

I agree, but it is a nice succinct way of conveying the crux of the nature of Laplacian pde type solutions, i.e. complete knowledge on the boundary gives complete knowledge throughout the domain.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000
Enabling the maximal migration
January 19, 2013, 12:54:41 PM
#19
Incidentally, the term "holographic" is somewhat misleading. There's no experimental evidence (nor is there a theoretical requirement) that the information is arranged holographically on the surface of a black hole.

So don't be distracted by the terminology. It's just a "popular" way to convey the concept that the information capacity of a 3-D object is proportional to its surface area rather than to its volume.

Michael Talbot actually goes into alot of detail about how our memories are stored and form holographically and that the nature of the universe is specifically holographic (similar to a fractal). I would be interested in understanding from your perspective why you see the terminology as a distraction.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080
January 19, 2013, 12:46:51 PM
#18
There's no experimental evidence (nor is there a theoretical requirement) that the information is arranged holographically on the surface of a black hole.

I think that's part of the reason why the holographic principle is called a principle.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000
Enabling the maximal migration
January 18, 2013, 08:38:34 PM
#17
For those that find this theory interesting, I highly recommend the book http://www.amazon.com/Holographic-Universe-Revolutionary-Theory-Reality/dp/0062014102

He does a truly amazing job of weaving different disciplines together to show what the implications of this theory are
legendary
Activity: 3920
Merit: 2349
Eadem mutata resurgo
January 18, 2013, 08:06:19 PM
#16
It's indeed a very profound and revolutionary concept.  I would lie if I tell that I understand it in any substantial way, but the very little I know is very appealing.  In particular, I like the fact that it is related to the very interesting work of Erik Verlinde and his entropic interpretation of gravity.

Interesting indeed.

Anybody got some links to state of art Entropic Gravity theories? (Particularly interested to know if there are any GR Kerr solutions developments/formulations using Entropic Gravity.)
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
January 17, 2013, 05:09:03 AM
#15
The Planck scale is the smallest size for any force or energy to exist in.

Actually no -- the planck scale is simply the smallest observable scale. The reason has to do once again with black holes and the holographic principle. Say we accelerate a particle (in a particle accelerator) with so much energy that it would smash to bits on the Planck scale. Before that would happen, the energy of the particle would create a very small black hole. This black hole would simply get bigger the more energy you put into it. So in other words, we can never observe anything smaller than the Planck scale, and even "at" the Planck scale is going to be several orders of magnitude over and above what we can do now. But there is a hard limit because of that.

It's a little like death -- no one knows what happens when you die because no one can see the other side and come back.

Interesting, but simmilary, you can argue that as black holes of this size evaporate very quickly so even if we can't measure anything at that scale because you would destroy the experiment, it is hard to imagine that anything can exist of a size smaller than the Planck scale and at a higher energy and still be considered to be in our universe as it would othervise evaporate. Quantum granularity also applies to the Higgs field as i understand it, so there might be a scale limit under which gravity, i.e. our universe, does'nt exist!

If Einstein still lived and had bothered with Quantum Mechanics, he would just have called it another veil of God.

But it is'nt a hinder to the Holographic Universe as less "bit resolution" on the event horizon is matched by less resolution in our 3D world.

One interesting point of a Holographic Universe is that the "real world" is on a surface, 2D+time, which actually makes string and M-theory a much better fit!

I started to write the following, because I was trying to speculate on your point. However as I wrote I remembered that the following is completely un related as the scale is completely wrong:

---------
I attended Holger Bech Nielsens last lecture as a tutor in October last year, and at the end of the lecture he entertained with one of his fringe theories:

Higgs bozons might exist in the wild and account for dark matter. They would be held in check by dark energy so they did'nt collapse back into the Higgs field. He said he had estimated  these globuls size to be around 20-25mm. So his suggestion is that dark matter is generated if energies are high enough. If LHC started to make them, I would buy one to play with.

---------
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1080
January 16, 2013, 11:13:52 PM
#14
It's indeed a very profound and revolutionary concept.  I would lie if I tell that I understand it in any substantial way, but the very little I know is very appealing.  In particular, I like the fact that it is related to the very interesting work of Erik Verlinde and his entropic interpretation of gravity.
vip
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
13
January 16, 2013, 10:40:54 PM
#13
The Planck scale is the smallest size for any force or energy to exist in.

Actually no -- the planck scale is simply the smallest observable scale. The reason has to do once again with black holes and the holographic principle. Say we accelerate a particle (in a particle accelerator) with so much energy that it would smash to bits on the Planck scale. Before that would happen, the energy of the particle would create a very small black hole. This black hole would simply get bigger the more energy you put into it. So in other words, we can never observe anything smaller than the Planck scale, and even "at" the Planck scale is going to be several orders of magnitude over and above what we can do now. But there is a hard limit because of that.

It's a little like death -- no one knows what happens when you die because no one can see the other side and come back.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
January 16, 2013, 03:14:38 PM
#12
Susskind good suggestion. It will also be a lesson in condescending lecturing. He is really one of the most brilliant and at the same time the meanest asshole in the universe. When you watch his lectures, pay attention to his reaction when he is asked a stupid question from a student.

Not so. He's quite friendly here, IIRC. He won't entertain a wrong idea, he will eat a cookie, correct it; pace around for a bit, and carry on.

Either the years have mellowed him, or he simply saves his guns for deserving targets. Stephen Hawking comes first to mind.




That's good to hear, He is intense and his "life is too short for bull shit"  attitude is charming.

physics got the whole pallete of characters. Pennrose is like a cross between Mr. Bean and the side kick from Indiana Jones movies, but also very mellow and respectfull.

Holger Bech Nielsen is everybodys high school  excentric math teacher. I could go on..
legendary
Activity: 1458
Merit: 1006
January 16, 2013, 02:49:05 PM
#11
Susskind good suggestion. It will also be a lesson in condescending lecturing. He is really one of the most brilliant and at the same time the meanest asshole in the universe. When you watch his lectures, pay attention to his reaction when he is asked a stupid question from a student.

Not so. He's quite friendly here, IIRC. He won't entertain a wrong idea, he will eat a cookie, correct it; pace around for a bit, and carry on.

Either the years have mellowed him, or he simply saves his guns for deserving targets. Stephen Hawking comes first to mind.



Speaking of cosmology, found this awesome piece of software yesterday: http://en.spaceengine.org/

I don't think any description of mine can fully do it justice...

Video: A trip from Earth to Sgr A* | (The Black Hole at the center of the Milky Way)
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
January 16, 2013, 02:27:18 PM
#10
If you want to get up to speed on this stuff, and have an hour to spare,
there's an excellent lecture by Leonard Susskind that is pretty understandable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIl3Hfh9tY

Drats, was going to post exactly this video. His entire Stanford Continuing Studies lecture series is... super awesome.

I started with (and followed the entirety of) Susskind's Cosmology Lectures, which are extra super awesome.

Susskind good suggestion. It will also be a lesson in condescending lecturing. He is really one of the most brilliant and at the same time the meanest asshole in the universe. When you watch his lectures, pay attention to his reaction when he is asked a stupid question from a student.
legendary
Activity: 1458
Merit: 1006
January 16, 2013, 02:19:09 PM
#9
If you want to get up to speed on this stuff, and have an hour to spare,
there's an excellent lecture by Leonard Susskind that is pretty understandable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIl3Hfh9tY

Drats, was going to post exactly this video. His entire Stanford Continuing Studies lecture series is... super awesome.

Quote from: Modern Physics: The theoretical minimum
This Stanford Continuing Studies course is a collection of classes and lectures that is the minimalist approach to Theoretical Physics.
A student following this curriculum would achieve a solid understanding of Modern Physics in an optimized manner. It is the minimum that is required to begin understanding theoretical physics.

In Professor Susskind's words ...  "A number of years ago I became aware of the large number of physics enthusiasts out there who have no venue to learn modern physics and cosmology.  Fat advanced textbooks are not suitable to people who have no teacher to ask questions of, and the popular literature does not go deeply enough to satisfy these curious people.  So I started a series of courses on modern physics at Stanford University where I am a professor of physics.  The courses are specifically aimed at people who know, or once knew, a bit of algebra and calculus, but are more or less beginners."

I started with (and followed the entirety of) Susskind's Cosmology Lectures, which are extra super awesome.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
January 16, 2013, 11:20:11 AM
#8
I really like this idea of an electric/holographic universe.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
January 16, 2013, 11:15:11 AM
#7
But, what does this have to do with Bitcoin?

Note the thread's location, and the description of this sub-forum. Wink

Yeah, I think you moved it while I was replying.  Smiley

Once again showing a lack of reading comprehension. Note that I do not have "staff" or "global moderator" under my name.

I could not have moved it.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 250
January 16, 2013, 10:27:38 AM
#6
" amount of information in X ...  "

Sorry, this is just not science in my opinion.  Sure, a HD might contain 1TB.. but what about the positions of every atom  in there every nanosecond?  That would be a lot more information.  

"Information"  is context dependent.  If that's your interest stick with Claude Shannon and avoid Hawking / Berkenstein.  

Well the world is digital after all:

The Planck scale is the smallest size for any force or energy to exist in. So the boundary spheres area in imaginatory Planck scale bits, contains enough information to describe everything inside; matter energy force momentum and the minds of all of us.

It puzzling that the numbers fit, but it is not proof of if it as real.
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