The Horrors of Credit Card Processing

Xephan

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Quote from: BitcoinRigs.com on August 13, 2011, 10:08:22 PM

Credit cards are the biggest fraud of the century.

Here's just one of many examples:

http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/

LOL, he's really dedicated with that. But he hasn't tried this one that I've done on numerous occasions: sign for something using a LADIES only card. Not sure if these things exists in the States but here we have some cards that are exclusive for women and clearly designed/marked so with special discounts/offers only valid for women.

So far nobody has batted an eye when I take one out, obtained with permission from my lady of course who tries not to grin too hard, and sign for whatever using similarly fraudulent names.

defxor

hero member

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Quote from: Maged on August 14, 2011, 02:53:49 AM

It's common knowledge to anyone it applies to (merchants)

My point is (like others have written in this thread already) that those charges are passed on to consumers, who _don't know_ that they're paying for it and would in effect see lower prices on goods if the world moved to a Bitcoin transaction system.

I've used that argument with success when explaining "Why Bitcoin?". Actual savings do entice interest.

(I'm from a country where paying with cash is frowned upon and you're recommended to use credit/debit cards. They're touted as being the cheaper option due to less "hassle" with cash)

Maged

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Quote from: defxor on August 14, 2011, 01:56:05 AM

Quote from: error on August 13, 2011, 06:56:11 PM

Quote from: defxor on August 13, 2011, 05:37:02 PM

If the top post can be readily verified or somehow otherwise accepted as true (I'm assuming a CC merchant doesn't want to put his business on the line?) it should at least go on the wiki and maybe even bitcoin.org

I see no reason to doubt it. These things are very common knowledge.

I'm not doubting it, but it needs to be sourced in some form of another if we want to actively use it to push Bitcoin (e.g bitcoin.org, the wiki).

I sincerely doubt it's _that_ common knowledge. Outside of the US you rarely hear consumers talk about chargebacks even.

It's common knowledge to anyone it applies to (merchants). Thus, their is no reason to use this information to push bitcoin, other than to possibly create a chart showing how Bitcoin is better. Our current PR pretty much already does that.

defxor

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Quote from: error on August 13, 2011, 06:56:11 PM

Quote from: defxor on August 13, 2011, 05:37:02 PM

If the top post can be readily verified or somehow otherwise accepted as true (I'm assuming a CC merchant doesn't want to put his business on the line?) it should at least go on the wiki and maybe even bitcoin.org

I see no reason to doubt it. These things are very common knowledge.

I'm not doubting it, but it needs to be sourced in some form of another if we want to actively use it to push Bitcoin (e.g bitcoin.org, the wiki).

I sincerely doubt it's _that_ common knowledge. Outside of the US you rarely hear consumers talk about chargebacks even.

BitcoinRigs.com

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Credit cards are the biggest fraud of the century.

Here's just one of many examples:

http://www.zug.com/pranks/credit/

BitPay Business Solutions

hero member

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Quote from: BradZimdack on August 12, 2011, 02:14:18 PM

The Visa/MC monopoly is choking the life out of us in ways many people don't realize. Bitcoin has the potential to save us.

Brad this is exactly the reason why we started Bit-pay. I've been a merchant accepting credit cards online for 10 years. I have never won a single dispute, not one. And the fees go up and up every year.

error

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Quote from: defxor on August 13, 2011, 05:37:02 PM

If the top post can be readily verified or somehow otherwise accepted as true (I'm assuming a CC merchant doesn't want to put his business on the line?) it should at least go on the wiki and maybe even bitcoin.org

I see no reason to doubt it. These things are very common knowledge.

defxor

hero member

Activity: 530

Merit: 500

If the top post can be readily verified or somehow otherwise accepted as true (I'm assuming a CC merchant doesn't want to put his business on the line?) it should at least go on the wiki and maybe even bitcoin.org

BTC_Junkie

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Quote from: molecular on August 13, 2011, 06:17:45 AM

Quote from: BradZimdack on August 12, 2011, 08:18:18 PM

Quote from: BTC_Junkie on August 12, 2011, 06:36:04 PM

The big question I have is how do you convince the users to adopt BTC? Offering a 5% discount (most likely the high end, of the discount range) will only be attractive to a certain group of people considering the additional hassle involved, compared with swiping a credit card.

This is indeed the big question. So far, I have convinced four vendors to start accepting bitcoin. They are each offering discounts in the amounts of 10%, 15%, 50% and 50%. (The stores that are offering the 50% discounts are doing that by pegging 1 BTC to $20.) Unfortunately, almost no one has used bitcoin despite these incredible discounts they're offering. The barrier to entry on the consumer side is still too high.

I'm working with two other vendors to begin accepting bitcoin soon too. One will likely be offering a 20% discount but they aren't willing to proceed until they can point their customers to an easy way to get started (such as an online wallet or bank that lets you easily fund your account).

http://textcoin.co.uk/ it awesome, and also the bitcoin ATM (links to videos here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1958.msg452908;topicseen#msg452908)

Wow, that concept is very interesting... Do you know why they only offer really small BTC amounts?

molecular

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Quote from: BradZimdack on August 12, 2011, 08:18:18 PM

Quote from: BTC_Junkie on August 12, 2011, 06:36:04 PM

The big question I have is how do you convince the users to adopt BTC? Offering a 5% discount (most likely the high end, of the discount range) will only be attractive to a certain group of people considering the additional hassle involved, compared with swiping a credit card.

This is indeed the big question. So far, I have convinced four vendors to start accepting bitcoin. They are each offering discounts in the amounts of 10%, 15%, 50% and 50%. (The stores that are offering the 50% discounts are doing that by pegging 1 BTC to $20.) Unfortunately, almost no one has used bitcoin despite these incredible discounts they're offering. The barrier to entry on the consumer side is still too high.

I'm working with two other vendors to begin accepting bitcoin soon too. One will likely be offering a 20% discount but they aren't willing to proceed until they can point their customers to an easy way to get started (such as an online wallet or bank that lets you easily fund your account).

http://textcoin.co.uk/ it awesome, and also the bitcoin ATM (links to videos here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1958.msg452908;topicseen#msg452908)

BradZimdack

member

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Quote from: BTC_Junkie on August 12, 2011, 06:36:04 PM

The big question I have is how do you convince the users to adopt BTC? Offering a 5% discount (most likely the high end, of the discount range) will only be attractive to a certain group of people considering the additional hassle involved, compared with swiping a credit card.

This is indeed the big question. So far, I have convinced four vendors to start accepting bitcoin. They are each offering discounts in the amounts of 10%, 15%, 50% and 50%. (The stores that are offering the 50% discounts are doing that by pegging 1 BTC to $20.) Unfortunately, almost no one has used bitcoin despite these incredible discounts they're offering. The barrier to entry on the consumer side is still too high.

I'm working with two other vendors to begin accepting bitcoin soon too. One will likely be offering a 20% discount but they aren't willing to proceed until they can point their customers to an easy way to get started (such as an online wallet or bank that lets you easily fund your account).

Shortline

full member

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It's obvious that credit card companies are difficult to deal with. Nobody likes them, everyone hates them, and everyone mistrusts them. The fact is that it's not exactly about credit cards - we're dealing with an entirely different currency here. Dollars to bitcoins, that's the comparison, not credit cards to bitcoins...

As a strategy, it would be better to focus on how you can get bitcoins into people's hands more easily. Getting rid of them isn't really that difficult, it's getting them in the first place that's hard.

BTC_Junkie

member

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The big question I have is how do you convince the users to adopt BTC? Offering a 5% discount (most likely the high end, of the discount range) will only be attractive to a certain group of people considering the additional hassle involved, compared with swiping a credit card.

Meatpile

sr. member

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Quote from: hugolp on August 12, 2011, 06:18:17 PM

Quote from: molecular on August 12, 2011, 06:14:20 PM

Thanks a lot to the OP for stating all these horrible facts. This is really good ammunition.

While bitcoin might solve all these problems, we still are in danger of letting the pendulum swing the other way. Customers deserve protection from fraudulent merchants (or non-merchants in some cases). In the end, the customer will decide which payment method to use and having to trust the merchant or do checking on him beforehand, then having to hope for delivery is quite a drawback.

How will we protect the customer from being ripped off my merchants?

Scrow system.

But then how do we stop getting ripped off by the scrow sytems?? nooo its a circle jerk of infinity

gusti

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Quote from: molecular on August 12, 2011, 06:14:20 PM

Thanks a lot to the OP for stating all these horrible facts. This is really good ammunition.

While bitcoin might solve all these problems, we still are in danger of letting the pendulum swing the other way. Customers deserve protection from fraudulent merchants (or non-merchants in some cases). In the end, the customer will decide which payment method to use and having to trust the merchant or do checking on him beforehand, then having to hope for delivery is quite a drawback.

How will we protect the customer from being ripped off my merchants?

that's easy, you can always make some due dilligence about the merchant you are buying
believe it, chargebacks are an unnecessary evil

hugolp

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Radix-The Decentralized Finance Protocol

Quote from: molecular on August 12, 2011, 06:14:20 PM

Thanks a lot to the OP for stating all these horrible facts. This is really good ammunition.

While bitcoin might solve all these problems, we still are in danger of letting the pendulum swing the other way. Customers deserve protection from fraudulent merchants (or non-merchants in some cases). In the end, the customer will decide which payment method to use and having to trust the merchant or do checking on him beforehand, then having to hope for delivery is quite a drawback.

How will we protect the customer from being ripped off my merchants?

Scrow system.

molecular

donator

Activity: 2772

Merit: 1019

Thanks a lot to the OP for stating all these horrible facts. This is really good ammunition.

While bitcoin might solve all these problems, we still are in danger of letting the pendulum swing the other way. Customers deserve protection from fraudulent merchants (or non-merchants in some cases). In the end, the customer will decide which payment method to use and having to trust the merchant or do checking on him beforehand, then having to hope for delivery is quite a drawback.

How will we protect the customer from being ripped off my merchants?

evoorhees

legendary

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Merit: 1023

Democracy is the original 51% attack

Bitcoin will succeed because of the following mechanism:

1) Merchants will slowly start adopting it because they can eliminate charge-back risk completely. Using a service like Bit-pay, they can receive USD still with this benefit.
2) Merchants that accept BTC will start realizing it reduces their cost of business. They will start preferring BTC payments because it's cheaper for them to operate.
3) Merchants will thus slightly lower prices for customers paying in BTC
4) Customers will see that prices tend to be slightly lower if paid in BTC, and thus they'll become increasing interested in using this means for payment online.

I think this mechanism is what solves the "chicken or egg" problem that Bitcoin as a new currency faces. It's pretty compelling, and the OP's points underscore the market need.

BookofNick

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+1. Just yesterday I received a chargeback of $400 for a swimming pool drain and cleaning that I performed over two months ago. I'm not set up to take CCs, so I go through PayPal where ppl can use their CC even if they don't have a PayPal account. I was on the phone with payPal for an hour, the solution they gave me? Call your local authorities. Such a joke. We need Bitcoin, for this reason and more.

Reckman

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+1 so true

Don't forget how shitty they can be to the consumer as well

Bitcoin just needs to enter a realm where its easy enough for mass adoption

Topic: The Horrors of Credit Card Processing (Read 2823 times)