The importance of Bitcoin will not be felt by the mainstream until governments.. - page 2.

franky1

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Quote from: Kprawn on October 20, 2016, 02:57:10 PM

Not all governments have the same outlook on a cash-less society, so it will not be that easy. The only way they will turn this into a reality,
is if they can offer cheaper cash {no minting & printing of fiat currencies}, with full control to manipulate the cap... like they are doing
now.

national banks of:
india, america, canada, france, germany, finland, england, scotland, Switzerland, china, >13 african countries. and 40 other national banks
aswell as hundreds of private banking institutions are all working on hyperledger.

Quote from: Kprawn on October 20, 2016, 02:57:10 PM

Many of the 3rd world countries do not have the infrastructure or the money to built it, to be ready for a cash-less society and the
citizens are too poor to afford mobile phones. { They will have to subsidize digital devices like the Treazor for people like this}

many african countries use phones for banking, not debitcards or paper currency. especially in poor countries.
check out the M-pesa. they have no problems with using phones.

Kprawn

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Not all governments have the same outlook on a cash-less society, so it will not be that easy. The only way they will turn this into a reality,

is if they can offer cheaper cash {no minting & printing of fiat currencies}, with full control to manipulate the cap... like they are doing

now. Many of the 3rd world countries do not have the infrastructure or the money to built it, to be ready for a cash-less society and the

citizens are too poor to afford mobile phones. { They will have to subsidize digital devices like the Treazor for people like this }

serjent05

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Quote from: pereira4 on October 20, 2016, 10:42:35 AM

get rid of cash.

Once governments finish their ban-on-cash global plan, and there's no escape from pinpoint governmental control, we better hope we have a strong, solid, decentralized-node Bitcoin, with nodes wide spread all across the globe, or else it will be the end of financial freedom for ever. Bitcoin is our last hope.

By then, people will start to realize the importance of owning Bitcoin and knowing how to use it. The price of Bitcoin will sky rocket to several thousands to millions of dollars per coin, as bast amounts of wealth move within the ecosystem.

With this you are just implying that bitcoin will never be felt by the mainstream. I have come into conclusin because you said that government need to get rid of cash which is impossible. Though I disagree that government needs to ban cash to be able bitcoin felt by the people, there are several way where government can work this two harmonously. Though bitcoin will be a secondary fiat money next to cash, i believe that with enough education and drive from the government, bitcoin will be felt by mainstream.

arnbrd

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The ban of cash hopefully won't be effective for a very long time. Until then Bitcoin will have widespread a lot more.

aso118

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Quote from: pereira4 on October 20, 2016, 10:42:35 AM

get rid of cash.

Once governments finish their ban-on-cash global plan, and there's no escape from pinpoint governmental control, we better hope we have a strong, solid, decentralized-node Bitcoin, with nodes wide spread all across the globe, or else it will be the end of financial freedom for ever. Bitcoin is our last hope.

By then, people will start to realize the importance of owning Bitcoin and knowing how to use it. The price of Bitcoin will sky rocket to several thousands to millions of dollars per coin, as bast amounts of wealth move within the ecosystem.

They are trying to get there as quickly as possible. But as long as there are alternatives like gold and bitcoin, they won't be successful.
Everybody may not have access to bitcoins, but they can still buy gold.

Milkduds

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This will take time and the main issue/threat to achieving this is the potential of hacking.
Imagine the world economy is taken down over night by some kid in his basement!

Also tapping into something Franky1 mentioned,the creation of funds and printing money to make up for budget overruns would become obvious or not something they could do. So in that vein I do not see governments jumping on the crypto wagon till they can figure out how to create and control
most if not all aspects. It is kind of a scary thought to think we could be forced into a crypto that the government could sweep away in one swipe of the keyboard.

A lot of benefits to going down this road but there are some pretty big holes we need to patch up before we can even creep towards adopting a mainstream cycle.

Denker

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I can not believe that cash will disappear within the next decades!
Bitcoin will have to coexist with fiat currencies.I see no problem in that and still there are more than enogh reasons why Bitcoin's value will rise.
Countries like Sweden, where almost everybody is paying with cards or the phone right now, will be one of the few excemptions for many more years.

franky1

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Quote from: pereira4 on October 20, 2016, 11:19:58 AM

I agree, but when I say 6 to 7 figures in dollars/euro, I mean it will have the purchasing power of what currently 6 to 7 figures of dollars/euro can buy you, whatever that is in the future, that is what I mean with inflation adjusted.

deflationary power = more bread for 1btc
inflationary power = less bread.

EG
inflation of fiat
current: $600=400 loaves of bread=1btc
future: $8quadrillion=400 loaves of bread=1btc <- no extra bread
same bread, different valuation.
downside of inflation
future: $600=0.000000000003 of a loaf of bread=1btc <-less bread

this is why we should not care about fiat inflation.

deflation of bitcoin
current: 600USFC=400 loaves of bread=1btc
future: 6000USFC=4000 loaves of bread=1btc
more bread via bitcoin, even if bread stays at 1.5USFC

its deflation due to demand for bitcoin we should be thinking about..
no one should care about

amacar2

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I also believe just like you in bitcoin and i am quite sure many of us in this forum love bitcoin because it can give us financial freedom and also freedom from the heavy taxes and laws government have forced on us. I am storing in bitcoin because bitcoin network never gonna shut down so that i will never gonna loss access to my money as well as noone can stop me or lock me from my money like in banks.

pereira4

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Quote from: franky1 on October 20, 2016, 11:10:42 AM

Quote from: pereira4 on October 20, 2016, 11:01:54 AM

The market will dictate the price of bitcoin. As wealth comes in (and that includes gold and other assets), the price will go up in inflation-adjusted purchasing power. No one will be willing to sell 1 Bitcoin unless it's purchasing power is huge, no matter how many tricks those pigs try to come up with.

my point is in the future.. $8quadrillion dollar bitcoin is no better than $600 bitcoin right now. it will still buy only 400 loaves of bread.
valuation in dollars will be meaningless.

however the ID centric nature of hyperledger by removing bank notes and being 100% banking KYC ledger entries will divert people to want something less authoritarian
which could (using my made up figures of last post)
cause btc valuation to go from
1btc:600USFIATCOIN which would be 400 loaves of bread.
to
1btc:6000USFIATCOIN which would be 4000 loaves of bread.if bitcoin sees 10x more demand

and no one will care about btc being $8quadrillian dollars of useless money

I agree, but when I say 6 to 7 figures in dollars/euro, I mean it will have the purchasing power of what currently 6 to 7 figures of dollars/euro can buy you, whatever that is in the future, that is what I mean with inflation adjusted.

calkob

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i tend to agree with you i think the fact that cash is still floating about makes people still feel safe from control. however like you said once cash is a thing of the past the governments will have right were they want.

franky1

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Quote from: pereira4 on October 20, 2016, 11:01:54 AM

The market will dictate the price of bitcoin. As wealth comes in (and that includes gold and other assets), the price will go up in inflation-adjusted purchasing power. No one will be willing to sell 1 Bitcoin unless it's purchasing power is huge, no matter how many tricks those pigs try to come up with.

my point is in the future.. $8quadrillion dollar bitcoin is no better than $600 bitcoin right now. it will still buy only 400 loaves of bread.
valuation in dollars will be meaningless.

however the ID centric nature of hyperledger by removing bank notes and being 100% banking KYC ledger entries will divert people to want something less authoritarian
which could (using my made up figures of last post)
cause btc valuation to go from
1btc:600USFIATCOIN which would be 400 loaves of bread.
to
1btc:6000USFIATCOIN which would be 4000 loaves of bread.if bitcoin sees 10x more demand

and no one will care about btc being $8quadrillian dollars of useless money

pereira4

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Quote from: franky1 on October 20, 2016, 10:52:13 AM

Quote from: pereira4 on October 20, 2016, 10:42:35 AM

get rid of cash.

Once governments finish their ban-on-cash global plan, and there's no escape from pinpoint governmental control, we better hope we have a strong, solid, decentralized-node Bitcoin, with nodes wide spread all across the globe, or else it will be the end of financial freedom for ever. Bitcoin is our last hope.

By then, people will start to realize the importance of owning Bitcoin and knowing how to use it. The price of Bitcoin will sky rocket to several thousands to millions of dollars per coin, as bast amounts of wealth move within the ecosystem.

the majority of world banks are involved with hyper-ledger.
bank balances wont disapear. they will be replaced 1:1 (dollar:USFIATCOIN)
where america will have one chain measured in USFIATCOIN tethered to the hyperledger and uk will have a chain measured in UKFIATCOIN tethered to the hyper ledger.
(i called it USFIATCOIN/UkFIATCOIN for demonstration purposes only)

thus freeing american government from "dollar" debt. because the terms of repayment are in "dollars".
so goverments hyper inflate old useless dollars so that $20 trillion becomes the price of a loaf of bread to pay off the debt contract in one go.

while citizens are holding ~45000USFIATCOIN average each(to represent average life savings) thus dont feel the 'pinch', where 1.5USFIATCOIN is the price of bread.

which makes bitcoin valued at
$8quadrillion old dollars but only 600USFIATCOIN
essentially bitcoin valuers drop measuring against "dollar" and instead measure against 'USFIATCOIN' .. which after the drama is over, not much changes

The market will dictate the price of bitcoin. As wealth comes in (and that includes gold and other assets), the price will go up in inflation-adjusted purchasing power. No one will be willing to sell 1 Bitcoin unless it's purchasing power is huge, no matter how many tricks those pigs try to come up with.

franky1

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Quote from: pereira4 on October 20, 2016, 10:42:35 AM

get rid of cash.

Once governments finish their ban-on-cash global plan, and there's no escape from pinpoint governmental control, we better hope we have a strong, solid, decentralized-node Bitcoin, with nodes wide spread all across the globe, or else it will be the end of financial freedom for ever. Bitcoin is our last hope.

By then, people will start to realize the importance of owning Bitcoin and knowing how to use it. The price of Bitcoin will sky rocket to several thousands to millions of dollars per coin, as bast amounts of wealth move within the ecosystem.

the majority of world banks are involved with hyper-ledger.
bank balances wont disapear. they will be replaced 1:1 (dollar:USFIATCOIN)
where america will have one chain measured in USFIATCOIN tethered to the hyperledger and uk will have a chain measured in UKFIATCOIN tethered to the hyper ledger.
(i called it USFIATCOIN/UkFIATCOIN for demonstration purposes only)

thus freeing american government from "dollar" debt. because the terms of repayment are in "dollars".
so goverments hyper inflate old useless dollars so that $20 trillion becomes the price of a loaf of bread to pay off the debt contract in one go.

while citizens are holding ~45000USFIATCOIN average each(to represent average life savings) thus dont feel the 'pinch', where 1.5USFIATCOIN is the price of bread.

which makes bitcoin valued at
$8quadrillion old dollars but only 600USFIATCOIN
essentially bitcoin valuers drop measuring against "dollar" and instead measure against 'USFIATCOIN' .. which after the drama is over, not much changes from the prospective of how much bread you can buy.

yes bitcoins deflationary nature can make the new valuation result in more bread per btc being bought, but the banks hyper inflation flip after swapping over to hyperledger wont cause much difference outside of the box.

pereira4

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get rid of cash.

Once governments finish their ban-on-cash global plan, and there's no escape from pinpoint governmental control, we better hope we have a strong, solid, decentralized-node Bitcoin, with nodes wide spread all across the globe, or else it will be the end of financial freedom for ever. Bitcoin is our last hope.

By then, people will start to realize the importance of owning Bitcoin and knowing how to use it. The price of Bitcoin will sky rocket to several thousands to millions of dollars per coin, as bast amounts of wealth move within the ecosystem.

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