Topic: The intrinsic value of a bitcoin (Read 4815 times)

Intrinsic value as used in 'economics' vs subjective value used in your thought experiments.

Yeah works out.  

I don't think you could come up with a satisfactory definition of 'universally recognizable'.
Basically what you're saying is that something can only have an intrinsic value if the rest of the humans would agree (if asked) that it has this value.
According to your definition, if someone eats a collection of spiders because she's hungry then those spiders as food would not be intrinsic value because there is no universal consensus on individual basis that spiders are valuable as food.  Yet, i can imagine situations where someone would find intrinsic value in eating them.

I think that intrinsic value is per se in the eyes of the beholder.
Then, of course, you can start playing the game.
Do i value it less for the intrinsic value than someone else and can i gain more economic value out of the object by selling it for its intrinsic value.

But i don't think it is nessesary or wise to make 'universal recognition' part of the definition.

What this universal recognition actually is is the basis for the economic value. It is how valuable something is to the market in general.
You may not like fish, so it has no big intrinsic value for you. But you also know there are lots of people that do see this intrinsic value in fish.
It means you can sell the fish for its economical value (the value the market in general gives it).

No it's only something universally recognizable which can consist of intrinsic value. So it's quite the opposite.
Only under your definition your latter statement makes even sense.

You cannot decide if bitcoin has intrinsic value simply because whether something has intrinsic value is decided by the owner.
So at most you can claim that you find no intrinsic value in your stash of bitcoin.

To sum it up, bitcoin has zero intrinsic value. But the fact it can be used to hold wealth in an intangible space. That is beautiful.

Bitcoin pushes the limits of universal properties of money. This is one of those inverse relationships. intrinsically worth nothing, yet it holds a very deep value... Especially how new bitcoin is.

What's the use of that metal if it just sits there and doesn't do anything? I don't see any value in that at all.

You are confusing intrinsic properties with intrinsic value. (don't worry, happens all the time)
These are two completely different concepts.
One is physics and one is economics.

Intrinsic property is stuff like that lead is heavy or that grass is green or bitcoin requires tech awareness.

Intrinsic value is when you can do something with your bitcoin that would prevent you from using the bitcoin as an exchange of value.
So, if you would break apart your hard drive with the blockchain and you would mount a magnetic head on the disc and play back the bits as if they were sound then that may have intrinsic value for you.

So intrinsic value is about choice.
Do you barter away the object as an economical instrument or do you keep it and make use of its intrinsic value?
There is nothing about this choice that is inherently objective or subjective.

A Bitcoin's intrinsic value is 0
A car's intrinsic value is the metal (and other material) it is built of

This is how it is in the real world and even if you would like to believe otherwise, you can't change it

Intrinsic value-ness has nothing to do with subjective vs objective.

Eating a sandwich for its intrinsic value is very objective if you can't barter it for more food.

It depends on the personal choice of either using the object for your own needs or use it as an instrument in the economy.

I think that originally it ment to signify what percent of a good would be rotating through the economy as a token of value and what part would 'stick' in the hands of the traders with the intentio of being consumed.
Its a kind of liquidity index.
You get interesting questions like what happens to the trade of foods during a famine.

No, not /thread


In my opinion what (potentially) makes bitcoin valuable over other currencies is definitely its intrinsic value:
privacy, decentralization, unregulated with option to "opt in" to regulation, peer validation, universality, as op mentioned "digitizing the timeline."

It has other intrinsic values that (potentially) makes bitcoin borderline useless:
need for non-laziness, tech awareness and requirements, security... for example.



I don't think there is any vagueness with the term "intrinsic" ... there are properties to a bitcoin that are not removable from bitcoin. They're not arguable, they're part of the definition of a bitcoin.

What those values are worth? Of course that's subjective. You might as well say the intrinsic value of a bitcoin is TREE FIDDY.


other currencies don't necessarily have intrinsic values, but they can. You can stretch the definition of a currency, aka,"iPhones as currency."

Thank you. You answered the OP's questions as well. /thread

Gold does not have "intrinsic value" per se. Rather, men value it subjectively due to its unique properties (which are objective.)

Counter questions: What is the intrinsic value of an ounce of gold?

That GIF link hasn't worked before, and still doesn't. Keeps giving 504 errors. Because people who use "buttcoin" know computer stuffs really good like.

Cash (or many kinds of coupon) does not have any intrinsic value, but as long as someone is backing it and provide some utility, its value is recognized

Bitcoin also need a strong entity backing it, that's the people who are willing to accept bitcoin as a payment and provide products/services

Already noticed.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2345390

Regarding intrinsic value, *shameless plug*:  http://www.whyisntbitcoinworthless.com

The freedom you talk about is part of the bitcoin currency. So i would still call it economic value. It is a value that flows from the use of bitcoin as a currency.
Think of it this way: The fact that you can sell a sandwitch in every country in the world does not give it more intrinsic value. It gives it more economical value.

Can you not extract the freedom and flexibility that this provides over our current alternatives? How else do you send money to another country without paying fees (assuming Bitcoin is a money)? The value of a bitcoin is almost universal as you can trade it anywhere, which would be an economic value, but  the freedom of actually transmitting that value is beyond the economic value that the value of that bitcoin has (ie what it can buy).

I think Let's keep going

I don't think so because intrinsic value in some way should contrast with economic value. That is the purpose of defining something as intrinsic value. It is that part that is not used to act in an economy.
It gets interesting with information because you can copy it. So you can enjoy the informations intrinsic and economic value at the same time.
So i guess that with information we need to take this overlap for what it is.
Intrinsic value then becomes simply that what you can extract from a piece of information that is beyond its economic value. And economic value is simply the value for which you can barter the information.