Topic: The manipulator is back!!! (Read 5831 times)

Yes. If your bot keeps a lot of bitcoins (say 50% bicoins, 50% usd) then you have been losing money.

I gotta wonder, don't bots just follow the swings so as the price steadily drops, you end up with more bitcoins but less USD$ worth of bitcoins?

That's true.  When it hits bottom it tends to either:
1) Stagnate for a long time before rallying big
2) Rally up and then a mere 20 cents later some asshole will dump $50,000 worth of coins to force it back down and it'll crash even more


So all those miners and early adopters who didn't sell, didn't sell, etc. now when it's gone to $2 are all "Okay perfect time to sell!"  And when it goes below $1, they'll think it's an even better time to sell.  They should've sold at $10.

As long as the price keeps bouncing up and down, bots are feasting on simple trades.  I recently unleashed my custom written bot and it's doing rather nicely.  The only time I lose out is when the market has a massive surge up or down and doesn't retrace its previous levels (eg. trades at $5 are a pipe dream today).  I wonder how many purely human traders there are in the market?

bitcoin prices will make another low at 60% probabilty and the buy trigger is quite far away: now 4$.

Any buying now carries the risk of catching a falling guiliotine knife.

ElectricMucus, I get bearish when it stagnates.  If it was stable, it would move a bit around a range, but move.  Stagnating means lack of interest in the coins.

Right now at such an extreme low it looks like it's just about to surge high.  I may be wrong and it may crash to $1, but it looks like it's going to go up big.  It may take a month.  It may take till next Spring, but it's near the sweet bottom.

Hey Minsc, I wonder you were spreading permabear rhetoric and posted tulip bubble images 2 weeks ago and now you suddenly become bullish?
I don't exactly get where you are at, what now is BTC gonna fail or not?

It seems you are just always trying to provoke with opposition no matter what without any basis.... or at least I'm not seeing any, if there is tell me!

See this meme http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=Where+is+your+god+now%3F&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=1

Then...


$2/coin!
WHERE IS YOUR MANIPULATOR NOW?

Yeah, actually I was suggesting you were the fat-fingered captain putting an extra zero on figures. But if you think my mom enjoys that, have at it.

With your mom :-P

If guys with money = manipulator, there's no reason truth cant = jesus

Edit:  Ahhhhh!!!! Maybe you guys are right!   It's almost winter but Mt Gox Live looks exactly like the top of an upside-down snowcone!!  This guy's an asshole!!

In retrospect, the name "Manipulator" was probably a poor choice. Should have been more verbose, like "A guy like me except has more money in the game", but, in Edward's defense, that doesn't flow nearly as easily

EVERYONE plays on the psychology of others.  I put up buy and sell walls too.  I simply don't have enough capital so the influence of my orders doesn't have nearly as much psychological impact on the market.  

What I'm saying is that the only difference between the guy or group of guys who place large bid/sell orders and everyone else is that they have capital and their bids/sells are noticed.  If you argue frequency, I'll argue back.  I sometimes adjust my bid/sells 10 times in an hour depending on market volatility, but far less (if at all) when volatility is low.  This reflects the movements of large bid/sells on mt. gox -- they are more frequent when volatility is high.

It's also kind of moot to talk about wanting to make people buy or sell bitcoins -- it ends up back at the money differential.  When there is a panic buy or sell, people buy and sell.  Every buy in a panic buy can be seen by others on Mt. Gox Live and it adds to the event psychology.  The only reason it isn't as likely to make the market move is because the majority of people have less money.  

But then again, the sum of all people with less money than the "manipulators" could also said to be manipulating the manipulators!  That's what happens in panic buys and sells.  Everyone buys or sells because they 1) Want to get in on the action and 2) Want the market to move in a certain direction.  This then 'manipulates' what the 'manipulator' does.  And, the reverse is true for the 'manipulators,' too -- 1) They want to get in on the action and 2) Want to make the market move in a certain direction.  And in that order.

It seems manipulators are simply guys with loot.  

Next you know, the 'manipulator' will be statistically random and everyone will panic and cry, "He's so ruthless!  Nobody can figure out what he's doing!  It appears his actions look like everyone else's!  He's a genius!"

Some personal experience, Captain? (+1)

It is trading if you want to hold some bitcoins and you buy them, or if you have some bitcoins and you sell them at the current market price. Or maybe even throw in a set price for your bitcoins.

It is manipulation when you put up bid walls (as the manipulator does) to try and make other people buy or sell bitcoins. This is manipulation because he is trying to show that there is lots of demand for bitcoins, when in reality he just removes these bitcoins as soon as the price starts dropping.

I am sure you get my idea. He is playing on the psychology of others.
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YES! Exactly. Some people on here give the good old 'this person just wants profit' argument to say it isn't manipulation. It is kind of a no brainer as obviously the person wants profit, and they are doing what they think will work to get that profit. Which includes these massive walls. This person doesn't need to be mustache twirling evil, or have a grand master plan, to be 'manipulating'. And just because people are seeing this and discussing doesn't really make them bad or good traders, simply people observing and discussing.

It is trading if you want to hold some bitcoins and you buy them, or if you have some bitcoins and you sell them at the current market price. Or maybe even throw in a set price for your bitcoins.

It is manipulation when you put up bid walls (as the manipulator does) to try and make other people buy or sell bitcoins. This is manipulation because he is trying to show that there is lots of demand for bitcoins, when in reality he just removes these bitcoins as soon as the price starts dropping.

I am sure you get my idea. He is playing on the psychology of others.

Don't let the manipulator to manipulate you!

Or maybe it's captain fat-fingers putting an extra zero on figures

I laugh it off because the name completely neglects any rational psychology.

It's not manipulation, it's trading.  I put up and remove bid and sell walls all the time too.  The only difference between me and them is that they have way more capital than I do. 

Explain. I mean, an individual has to be making these large scale orders, considering how fast they rise and fall. Maybe it's an early adopter with a massive stockpile, maybe it's another exchange or Bitcoinica's hedging, but other than that, what explains 10k coins going up and going down instantaneously? This isn't piecemeal market behavior.

I refuse to jump on the bandwagon that it's some massive conspiracy crap, but "fake" walls of this size and frequency are perception manipulation, pure and simple, unless I'm missing something significant with the way the exchanges work. If this is the case, I'm really curious.