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Topic: The Matrix vs Inception - page 3. (Read 6674 times)

sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 253
September 15, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
#33

E.g.: Don't get me started on "V for Vendetta" -- a psychological Trojan horse / poisoned chalice of mixed messages. A vigilante who's sort-of meant to be a good guy against a backdrop of an evil dictatorial state, goes around killing people and applying his own brutal tactics with zero due process. He kidnaps and imprisons the heroine to "toughen her up". They show this fake "crowd inspiration" thing with the anonymous masks. They throw in some church = paedophilia themes, and how the state oppresses gays, and all of that is meant to justify the whole Guy Fawkes + blow up parliament thing... To me that movie seemed really divisive, as if it was deliberately designed to burn bridges between the Baby Boomers and Gen Y, or whatever groups are likely to hold different political views.

Sorry, went a bit OT there, but there's my review Grin

That's an interesting interpretation.  And probably has merit to it.  Rather than wander OT, maybe we should start a thread about propaganda in movies.  There's a few other fairly recent ones I can think of off the top of my head.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1006
100 satoshis -> ISO code
September 15, 2013, 04:08:20 AM
#32
Which is deeper?

And how can I get deeper still, I wish to explore.

Altered States
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080360/

33 years ago this film was revolutionary for being "out there" and deep!
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 502
Circa 2010
September 15, 2013, 03:46:09 AM
#31
Personally, The Matrix was a far deeper than Inception, it really provoked and challenged my thinking of the world around me (for example perception vs reality and relativism) . Inception was an interesting concept, but it didn't really make me question anything really.
newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 500
September 15, 2013, 01:50:21 AM
#31
Matrix > Inception > Matrix 2 > A poke in the eye with a blunt stick > Matrix 3

Saying something is greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick isn't saying much. And by extension, saying something is greater than something that is greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick isn't saying much. And by extension, saying something is greater than something that is greater than something that is greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick isn't saying much.

And thus we can't truly conclude that The Matrix is anything great at all. And by extension, we can't conclude that Inception is anything great at all. And by further extension, we can't conclude that Matrix 2 is anything great at all.

This is troubling for those seeking whether such films might be enriching.

Alternatively, I have offered some film recommendations that are not only greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick, but just plain great.

Maybe I should have broken it up into two statements:

  • Matrix > Inception > Matrix 2
  • A poke in the eye with a blunt stick > Matrix 3

I am sure that there may be some debate as to whether the first statement is in the correct order. But I doubt that there would be many people who would disagree with the second statement Smiley
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 15, 2013, 03:24:37 AM
#30
Matrix > Inception > Matrix 2 > A poke in the eye with a blunt stick > Matrix 3

Saying something is greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick isn't saying much. And by extension, saying something is greater than something that is greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick isn't saying much. And by extension, saying something is greater than something that is greater than something that is greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick isn't saying much.

And thus we can't truly conclude that The Matrix is anything great at all. And by extension, we can't conclude that Inception is anything great at all. And by further extension, we can't conclude that Matrix 2 is anything great at all.

This is troubling for those seeking whether such films might be enriching.

Alternatively, I have offered some film recommendations that are not only greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick, but just plain great.

Maybe I should have broken it up into two statements:

  • Matrix > Inception > Matrix 2
  • A poke in the eye with a blunt stick > Matrix 3

I am sure that there may be some debate as to whether the first statement is in the correct order. But I doubt that there would be many people who would disagree with the second statement Smiley

This doesn't change anything. We still don't really know if The Matrix is better than getting crapped on by an elephant. Even that's not saying much of anything either. Is The Matrix better than eating green eggs and ham in a box with a fox? Is it better than eating green eggs and ham in house with a mouse? We don't know these things.

I truly doubt it's as mentally stimulating and mind bending as The Face of Another though. Nor do I believe it's as profound as Yi Yi.
newbie
Activity: 8
Merit: 500
September 14, 2013, 11:06:15 PM
#29
Matrix > Inception > Matrix 2 > A poke in the eye with a blunt stick > Matrix 3
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 15, 2013, 12:17:14 AM
#29
Matrix > Inception > Matrix 2 > A poke in the eye with a blunt stick > Matrix 3

Saying something is greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick isn't saying much. And by extension, saying something is greater than something that is greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick isn't saying much. And by extension, saying something is greater than something that is greater than something that is greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick isn't saying much.

And thus we can't truly conclude that The Matrix is anything great at all. And by extension, we can't conclude that Inception is anything great at all. And by further extension, we can't conclude that Matrix 2 is anything great at all.

This is troubling for those seeking whether such films might be enriching.

Alternatively, I have offered some film recommendations that are not only greater than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick, but just plain great.
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 253
September 14, 2013, 05:50:42 AM
#28

Inception:
It rang a couple of alarm bells for me. Namely, if you peel away the special effects and dream-within-a-dream crap, you're left with a warmongering propaganda plot. The evil Iran wants to sell oil to the Chinese, so they must be stopped. And by the way, the FBI is all-powerful and are entitled to do whatever the hell they want, so deal with it. Uh, yeah right. And yes, wow, it seems to deep and meaningful that 'Inception' tried to embed things in the public mind, while talking about it. Dislike.

I remember thinking something like this when watching the film but didn't think about it too deeply.  Sounds like it may be right, though I'm struggling to remember...  I may have to watch it again.

There was also the stuff in The Dark Knight (same director) which kind of had the whole thing about the ends justifying the means, surveillance being OK if it is used by "the good guys", etc.  So Nolan is not a stranger to putting forth government propaganda.  
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
September 12, 2013, 10:39:30 PM
#27
Matrix
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 12, 2013, 02:59:02 PM
#26

Sorry to be repetitive, but there's better stuff out there.
No problem, I was going with the OP's A vs B question. The list is appreciated. I'm not much of a movie buff -- mostly just lightweight relaxation for me, hence my negativity on Inception where I felt like I was getting sucked into the US' Iran-hating politics of 2010.

From the list, I think I've only seen 2001 A Space Odyssey. Of Kubrick's works (that I've seen), my favourites were "Dr. Strangelove" and "A Clockwork Orange". "Eyes Wide Shut" seemed to have similar "It's all just a dream" suggestive themes as Inception, but with more subtlety.

Of Kubrick's, my favorite is 2001. It delivers on so many levels. The Face of Another to me, is a masterpiece beyond measure as well. You'd enjoy it more if you get familiar with the Japanese New Wave, and Tatsuya Nakadei as an actor.

In a nutshell:

2001: A Space Odyssey: Humanity's place in the Universe
The Face of Another: Psychological study of identity and its meaning
Pale Flower: Nihilism and self destruction
Yi Yi: Affirmation of being human
The Human Condition: Being defiant within a war machine
Woman in the Dunes: Another muse on identity and its role in society
Sansho the Bailiff: I don't know where to begin
2046: A meditation on love and longing
In the Mood for Love: same as above

All very cerebral. All very powerful. All critically acclaimed. All promoting discussion.

To me, The Matrix and Inception don't quite measure up. But you have to step outside of mainstream Hollywood cinema to discover the true treasures. Hollywood films are studio driven, which means they are designed by a committee to make money first.
hero member
Activity: 775
Merit: 1000
September 12, 2013, 02:37:37 PM
#25

Sorry to be repetitive, but there's better stuff out there.
No problem, I was going with the OP's A vs B question. The list is appreciated. I'm not much of a movie buff -- mostly just lightweight relaxation for me, hence my negativity on Inception where I felt like I was getting sucked into the US' Iran-hating politics of 2010.

From the list, I think I've only seen 2001 A Space Odyssey. Of Kubrick's works (that I've seen), my favourites were "Dr. Strangelove" and "A Clockwork Orange". "Eyes Wide Shut" seemed to have similar "It's all just a dream" suggestive themes as Inception, but with more subtlety.
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
September 12, 2013, 01:22:06 PM
#24
inception is pretty good BUT MATRIX IS EPUC
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 254
September 12, 2013, 12:53:52 PM
#23

.....And yes, wow, it seems to deep and meaningful that 'Inception' tried to embed things in the public mind, while talking about it. Dislike.

It's called "Mr. Charles".
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 12, 2013, 11:39:16 AM
#22
The Matrix:
The classic "brain in a vat" idea, brought to the masses. It obviously provoked a bit of thought in a lot of people. They even alluded to qualia and their unprovable, subjective nature (how do we know what chicken is supposed to taste like?). In toying with ideas like Solipsism (how do you know if other people are real, conscious beings? They could be soulless Agents projected as images in your mind.) and rebirth, they seem to implicitly reject Christian ideas of god (+1). OTOH they ran with some ROFL Zionist themes instead (Zion, the last human city, located in the centre of the Earth? Pulease.) so I guess you can't win them all.

Inception:
It rang a couple of alarm bells for me. Namely, if you peel away the special effects and dream-within-a-dream crap, you're left with a warmongering propaganda plot. The evil Iran wants to sell oil to the Chinese, so they must be stopped. And by the way, the FBI is all-powerful and are entitled to do whatever the hell they want, so deal with it. Uh, yeah right. And yes, wow, it seems to deep and meaningful that 'Inception' tried to embed things in the public mind, while talking about it. Dislike.

Sorry to be repetitive, but there's better stuff out there. These two films just aren't the milestones in cinema for cerebral thought that people like to think they are. The themes in these films are big cliches. Nothing new was put into my mind upon watching them. I did not go "Whoa! Now I've got to think about that for a week." I made two lists a few posts back. Some of the films on the two lists are a bit mainstream and mundane, but I placed them there to make people think I wasn't into just listing out very obscure films. But the truth of the matter is, all the films on the list that you haven't heard of are critically acclaimed and big amongst cinephiles. And there's several on there that just really tap into your soul and make you think.
hero member
Activity: 775
Merit: 1000
September 12, 2013, 09:33:36 AM
#21
The Matrix:
The classic "brain in a vat" idea, brought to the masses. It obviously provoked a bit of thought in a lot of people. They even alluded to qualia and their unprovable, subjective nature (how do we know what chicken is supposed to taste like?). In toying with ideas like Solipsism (how do you know if other people are real, conscious beings? They could be soulless Agents projected as images in your mind.) and rebirth, they seem to implicitly reject Christian ideas of god (+1). OTOH they ran with some ROFL Zionist themes instead (Zion, the last human city, located in the centre of the Earth? Pulease.) so I guess you can't win them all.

Inception:
It rang a couple of alarm bells for me. Namely, if you peel away the special effects and dream-within-a-dream crap, you're left with a warmongering propaganda plot. The evil Iran wants to sell oil to the Chinese, so they must be stopped. And by the way, the FBI is all-powerful and are entitled to do whatever the hell they want, so deal with it. Uh, yeah right. And yes, wow, it seems to deep and meaningful that 'Inception' tried to embed things in the public mind, while talking about it. Dislike.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
It's the muffins that must be stopped.
September 12, 2013, 02:52:34 AM
#20
These kept me busy for a while

11:14
Fargo
Boxing day
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 11, 2013, 11:22:41 PM
#19
Of course, other deep films, masterpieces of the existential, cinema of the cerebral, include:

2001: A Space Odyessey
The Human Condition
Woman in the Dunes
The Seventh Seal
Hiroshima mon amour
Pale Flower
Sansho the Bailiff
The Spirit of the Beehive
Memento
No Country for Old Men
Days of Being Wild
In the Mood for Love
2046
The Thin Red Line
Moon

Isn't No Country for Old Men about some guy walking around cow killing everyone..........what's deep about that?

It's a psychological thriller that explores the nature of fate, chance, greed, madness, revenge, timing. Granted, it's probably the least deep or existential of those on the list. It's there, in a sense, to show that the list is not entirely devoid of being in touch with every man's cinema, mainstream cinema, so to speak. Discount it if you wish. Start right in with the meatier content. Begin with The Face of Another, if you will.
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 254
September 11, 2013, 11:07:16 PM
#18
Of course, other deep films, masterpieces of the existential, cinema of the cerebral, include:

2001: A Space Odyessey
The Human Condition
Woman in the Dunes
The Seventh Seal
Hiroshima mon amour
Pale Flower
Sansho the Bailiff
The Spirit of the Beehive
Memento
No Country for Old Men
Days of Being Wild
In the Mood for Love
2046
The Thin Red Line
Moon

Isn't No Country for Old Men about some guy walking around cow killing everyone..........what's deep about that?


hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 11, 2013, 10:39:08 PM
#17
Both are good but nothing beats the Age of Heroes

Are you referring to a 2011 film?

Yup because the rating is the depth of the movie, not the technicalities and effects whatsoever.

Behind enemy line is definitely deep.  Cheesy

Whichever way you interpret its it.

I haven't seen it, but it's getting 50 percent reviews on every site. I understand that it might have some niche appeal, but...

I wholeheartedly encourage you to explore what cinema offers at different levels. I have recommended seventeen films in two posts. Mind expanding experiences await you. Have you seen any of them?
sr. member
Activity: 364
Merit: 253
September 11, 2013, 10:36:42 PM
#16
Both are good but nothing beats the Age of Heroes

Are you referring to a 2011 film?

Yup because the rating is the depth of the movie, not the technicalities and effects whatsoever.

Behind enemy line is definitely deep.  Cheesy

Whichever way you interpret its it.
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