The mybitcoin.com taught us a lesson

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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Quote from: JeffK on August 02, 2011, 11:38:01 PM

Matt, I don't want to be negative, but you trying to inject a regulatory agency, even one with no actual power, into this den of 'anarcho-capitalists' is probably in vain.

You're blatantly wrong and that just shows your ignorance on the subject of freedom. Go learn a bit more before talking about a subject you know nothing about.

EhVedadoOAnonimato

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Quote from: qikaifu on August 02, 2011, 11:11:46 AM

If you have to trust some people, they must at least be willing to tell their real identity information.

One may not want to finish like Bernard von NotHaus, and for this very reason remain anonymous.

I don't think it's impossible to do business with anonymous people. You just have to take some precautions and know how much you can afford to lose.

repentance

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Quote from: wareen on August 03, 2011, 02:00:23 AM

As for your investigation: since we're dealing with an offshore address I wonder by which jurisdiction a possible class action lawsuit would be filed and what this would mean for victims outside that jurisdiction. I'm not very familiar with international law so forgive my lack of understanding. IOW, would a detailed report by some victim outside the US be of any help to you?

Typically class actions can include plaintiffs who aren't citizens of the jurisdiction in which the action is being brought. However, there are rules regarding the type of injuries which can be the subject of class actions, and a lawsuit doesn't become a class action until a motion for it to be designated as such has been granted. The action needs to meet certain rules to be given that classification and they'll differ somewhat by jurisdiction, but there's often a requirement that the action be a certain size both in terms of the number of injured parties and dollar value.

wareen

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Revolutionizing Brokerage of Personal Data

Hi Matthew!

Don't let yourself be discouraged by any of the negative remarks - your site looks promising and you're doing a great service to the community if you investigate the mybitcoin.com incident. This fiasco was probably the worst strike so far against the Bitcoin community as a whole.
It's always easier for people to criticize and leave negative comments than to contribute useful ideas - with an ever-growing community like the one at hand, you'll almost certainly find some negative remarks on any new idea, no matter how great it is.

I thought it might be helpful to start a poll on how many Bitcoins were stolen in total because not many people are going to be willing to give their real names and addresses out for an official investigation but an anonymous poll could help to give a clearer picture of the incident.

As for your investigation: since we're dealing with an offshore address I wonder by which jurisdiction a possible class action lawsuit would be filed and what this would mean for victims outside that jurisdiction. I'm not very familiar with international law so forgive my lack of understanding. IOW, would a detailed report by some victim outside the US be of any help to you?

BillX

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: BillX on August 03, 2011, 01:06:07 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: smoothie on August 02, 2011, 11:46:42 PM

Let us know if you find the guy who is responsible for mybitcoin.com, until then please stop acting like UABB is something to be trusted or that people should rely on to solve such matters.

Anyone else want to take charge of any kind of gathering of information and provide backup funding for an investigation? Okay, right. So I guess I keep doing what I'm doing then.

Thank everyone for being constructive and useful and allowing us all to move in an unbiased, forward direction. Oops.

...and remember folks... He wants funding for his 6 day old non profit startup that is completely anonymous but does ask for personal information (affidavits) from other bitcoiners about how they were scammed from mybitcoin. Sure thing Mr Anonymous. Ill get that right to you both my money as a donation and my personal info so you can steal more at a later date.

As I said before. This a scam.

I hope the intelligent members of this forum will understand my reasoning behind not continuing this conversation any farther. You've gone around in circles continuously, putting words in my mouth and twisting facts to try to make your arguments validate in your uneducated mind (what kind of mental acrobatics must you be doing in there?).

For those actually interested in what I, or the organizations I have started, are doing, stay tuned for updates. As always, the information is readily available. Of course, people will always come to their own conclusions on things, but I keep doing the right thing anyway. Nice try though, I'm not going anywhere.

Matthew N Wright

Of course you're not going anywhere. You want their money,.. Oh excuse me.. I mean you want donations for your "investigation".

smoothie

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: BillX on August 03, 2011, 01:06:07 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: smoothie on August 02, 2011, 11:46:42 PM

Let us know if you find the guy who is responsible for mybitcoin.com, until then please stop acting like UABB is something to be trusted or that people should rely on to solve such matters.

Anyone else want to take charge of any kind of gathering of information and provide backup funding for an investigation? Okay, right. So I guess I keep doing what I'm doing then.

Thank everyone for being constructive and useful and allowing us all to move in an unbiased, forward direction. Oops.

...and remember folks... He wants funding for his 6 day old non profit startup that is completely anonymous but does ask for personal information (affidavits) from other bitcoiners about how they were scammed from mybitcoin. Sure thing Mr Anonymous. Ill get that right to you both my money as a donation and my personal info so you can steal more at a later date.

As I said before. This a scam.

I hope the intelligent members of this forum will understand my reasoning behind not continuing this conversation any farther. You've gone around in circles continuously, putting words in my mouth and twisting facts to try to make your arguments validate in your uneducated mind (what kind of mental acrobatics must you be doing in there?).

For those actually interested in what I, or the organizations I have started, are doing, stay tuned for updates. As always, the information is readily available. Of course, people will always come to their own conclusions on things, but I keep doing the right thing anyway. Nice try though, I'm not going anywhere.

Matthew N Wright

As I said come back and show us your efforts once the perp is found and brought to justice. All your responding is wasted time on a matter in which you considered so important to upstart an organization to handle issues like these.

Better get to work and stop arguing with your opposition or else failure is around the corner.

BillX

member

Activity: 112

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: smoothie on August 02, 2011, 11:46:42 PM

Let us know if you find the guy who is responsible for mybitcoin.com, until then please stop acting like UABB is something to be trusted or that people should rely on to solve such matters.

Anyone else want to take charge of any kind of gathering of information and provide backup funding for an investigation? Okay, right. So I guess I keep doing what I'm doing then.

Thank everyone for being constructive and useful and allowing us all to move in an unbiased, forward direction. Oops.

...and remember folks... He wants funding for his 6 day old non profit startup that is completely anonymous but does ask for personal information (affidavits) from other bitcoiners about how they were scammed from mybitcoin. Sure thing Mr Anonymous. Ill get that right to you both my money as a donation and my personal info so you can steal more at a later date.

As I said before. This a scam.

BillX

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Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: BillX on August 02, 2011, 11:03:03 PM

This "gentleman's" domain he chose for the UABB is only 6 days old and registered anonymously.

OH NOE! NOT A STARTUP! *gasp*

Quote from: BillX on August 02, 2011, 11:03:03 PM

That certainly does not say "trust me" at all. Look at his website as well. It looks like a 4th grader made it in 5 minutes.

Let's see you live my lifestyle and still make a quality website for the 14th company you run, all in Notepad++ using no external libraries for reference. Wink

Thanks by the way. I appreciate the constructive criticism.

Quote from: BillX on August 02, 2011, 11:03:03 PM

Also, "the gentleman" couldn't even other to at least put a redirect on the top level of UABCI.ORG. All of this plain says amateur and watch out.

So when a startup has issues, it can cause some quakes in the community, I understand this. But when the community is so eager to judge the businesses and organizations that only exist to benefit the community, it causes me to question what kind of mindset the community possesses.

Quote from: BillX on August 02, 2011, 11:03:03 PM

Though, I guess in his defense he does have over 500 posts to this forum. I guess to him that all the credit he needs.

Although I am happy you learnt2WHOIS today, I have to say that I'm appalled at the obvious contradiction of this forum. On one hand I can talk about what I'm doing and be told to shut up for lack of interest, and on the other hand I'm called out for not giving enough information. What exactly do you want?

First of all.... *knuckles crack* If you really ran 14 companies you would have hired a professional to make that site for you as your time would be too valuable creating that wonderful website.

Second of All.. You're the one asking to be "Mr Regulator" or is it "Mr Investigator" or.. "Bitcoin Policeman" so the onus to prove that you are even capable of doing this is on you. No one here asked you to do that. Maybe you would want to provide samples of your previous work? A real life resume would be nice as well, especially with all those companies you run. Though with the burden of running 14 companies your going to be pretty hard pressed to find the time to do that, along of course with the lifestyle you live.

To me and it seems a lot of the others your just another talking head, spewing shite and producing nothing.

But this is a bonus from your website that really makes me laugh. "The evidence and findings of this investigation will be public knowledge." I really hope your not that stupid to get that close to something that might be libelous during your "investigation". Also remember, impersonating a Private Detective is illegal as well.

If you really are legit, by all means go for it. The burden however is on you to prove that.

smoothie

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Quote from: repentance on August 03, 2011, 12:02:21 AM

This place is getting more like high school every day, with multiple service operators now acting like butthurt teenagers whenever they don't like a question about or a comment on their service.

Y'all need to grow up and behave like business professionals if you want the trust of the community instead of reacting like spoiled toddlers whenever someone criticises your precious ideas.

Amen.

repentance

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This place is getting more like high school every day, with multiple service operators now acting like butthurt teenagers whenever they don't like a question about or a comment on their service.

Y'all need to grow up and behave like business professionals if you want the trust of the community instead of reacting like spoiled toddlers whenever someone criticises your precious ideas.

smoothie

legendary

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: smoothie on August 02, 2011, 11:46:42 PM

Let us know if you find the guy who is responsible for mybitcoin.com, until then please stop acting like UABB is something to be trusted or that people should rely on to solve such matters.

Anyone else want to take charge of any kind of gathering of information and provide backup funding for an investigation? Okay, right. So I guess I keep doing what I'm doing then.

Thank everyone for being constructive and useful and allowing us all to move in an unbiased, forward direction. Oops.

No one elected or ask you to take charge of anything. If you want to take charge of that then great. Show us all how useful your newly created organization is once the perpetrator has been found and brought to justice.

smoothie

legendary

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Quote from: JeffK on August 02, 2011, 11:38:01 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Suffice to say, you won't be buying anything from stores and/or using services that you see the UABCI logo on? Or the UABB logo for that matter? Would you mind stating that here so we can have a record of it?

Matthew N. Wright

Matt, I don't want to be negative, but you trying to inject a regulatory agency, even one with no actual power, into this den of 'anarcho-capitalists' is probably in vain.

edit: If you are honest in your intentions, remember that you are a guppy of common sense swimming upstream a river of stupid and half-planned ideas.

Yeah I am not buying the UABB thing either.

Establish some reputation then come and advertise yourself in such matters as an investigation of wrong doing.

Let us know if you find the guy who is responsible for mybitcoin.com, until then please stop acting like UABB is something to be trusted or that people should rely on to solve such matters.

FlipPro

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Suffice to say, you won't be buying anything from stores and/or using services that you see the UABCI logo on? Or the UABB logo for that matter? Would you mind stating that here so we can have a record of it?

Matthew N. Wright

Don't bite you're being trolled...

JeffK

sr. member

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I never hashed for this...

Quote from: ?? on ??

Suffice to say, you won't be buying anything from stores and/or using services that you see the UABCI logo on? Or the UABB logo for that matter? Would you mind stating that here so we can have a record of it?

Matthew N. Wright

Matt, I don't want to be negative, but you trying to inject a regulatory agency, even one with no actual power, into this den of 'anarcho-capitalists' is probably in vain.

edit: If you are honest in your intentions, remember that you are a guppy of common sense swimming upstream a river of stupid and half-planned ideas.

BillX

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Quote from: smoothie on August 02, 2011, 05:38:06 PM

Quote from: Mt.Fun on August 02, 2011, 05:11:48 PM

Quote from: bitprotection on August 02, 2011, 05:07:53 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: bitprotection on August 02, 2011, 04:51:24 PM

There is no reason for us to be "poking" around in it. The minute it arrives it is pull downed offline and stored away.

That's...not really the point..... You could say the same thing for the owner of MyBitcoin.com. He has no reason to go poking around either, and we have yet to see if he actually did or not but still...

Judging on this alone, I can tell you right now that no company that backs up consumer wallet files on remote servers, regardless of how secure they may be, would ever receive accreditation from the UABB unless the wallet files were encrypted BEFORE transmitting to the service.

It's nothing personal to your intentions mind you, it's just common sense. Why wouldn't you look and why would you look have the same amount of equal arguments. It's best to erase the possibility of looking altogether. You'll have to learn (or hire someone) to take apart the TrueCrypt code and make a client of your own for people to be able to download (or just have them use TrueCrypt) if you expect to be taken seriously in the current nervous climate.

Matthew N. Wright

Will of course the owner of Mybitcoin took off with the coins! It would take one time of that and our service is dead on arrival what is the point? So I guess no service is to be trusted I suppose it makes sense. We don't back it up to a server ? I hear you what your saying! Thanks for the feedback

Dude, don't listen to that guy. The "UABB" is just something he made up to feel important. Anyone who trusts the "UABB" is a fool. Do your own service and build up your own reputation by your own good customer service.

Agreed. And backup your own damn wallets yourself!

This "gentleman's" domain he chose for the UABB is only 6 days old and registered anonymously. That certainly does not say "trust me" at all. Look at his website as well. It looks like a 4th grader made it in 5 minutes. Also, "the gentleman" couldn't even other to at least put a redirect on the top level of UABCI.ORG. All of this plain says amateur and watch out.

Though, I guess in his defense he does have over 500 posts to this forum. I guess to him that all the credit he needs.

Domain ID:D162884485-LROR
Domain Name:UABCI.ORG
Created On:27-Jul-2011 08:32:10 UTC
Last Updated On:27-Jul-2011 08:32:11 UTC
Expiration Date:27-Jul-2012 08:32:10 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Directi Internet Solutions Pvt. Ltd. d/b/a PublicDomainRegistry.com (R27-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:PP-SP-001
Registrant Name:Domain Admin
Registrant Organization:PrivacyProtect.org
Registrant Street1:ID#10760, PO Box 16
Registrant Street2:Note - All Postal Mails Rejected, visit Privacyprotect.org
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Nobby Beach
Registrant State/Province:
Registrant Postal Code:QLD 4218
Registrant Country:AU
Registrant Phone:+45.36946676
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:[email protected]

d'aniel

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I posted some lessons here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/eliminating-the-need-to-trust-in-the-bitcoin-economy-33892

Basically, I think the major infrastructure of the Bitcoin economy should be to designed such that people give service providers keys to their bitcoins only when they really have to, and when they do, they should use Bitcoin scripts to distribute control of them over several reputable service providers which would all have to collude in order to steal or lose them. I also think the user experience in this model needs to be no more difficult than using Firefox sync - i.e. securely storing a single rarely used, never updated private key.

repentance

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Quote from: Rassah on August 02, 2011, 10:20:34 PM

Also, I wonder why Bitcoin services don't use a single address? Have customer deposits sent to a unique address to identify them, then immediately forward their money to a single central address that uses one key backed up in multiple locations. No need for continuous backups other that the database of user accounts and holdings.

My understanding is that many of the services do put customer deposits in a single aggregated account. Of course if that account gets compromised then you've got a whole lot of customers who are going to be SOL when it comes to redeeming their deposits. Backups aren't going to be much use once funds/Bitcoins have already been transferred out of those master accounts.

Rassah

legendary

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Also, I wonder why Bitcoin services don't use a single address? Have customer deposits sent to a unique address to identify them, then immediately forward their money to a single central address that uses one key backed up in multiple locations. No need for continuous backups other that the database of user accounts and holdings.

julz

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Quote from: Rassah on August 02, 2011, 10:07:22 PM

Just a thought. Someone's site getting compromised means the hacker can also likely force the backup system to overwrite the backed p wallet with a blank/corrupt one. Would it be better to have the site operator "backup" an encrypted wallet to a specified directory, and the external backup service to the grabbing of the file off that server themselves? Keeping it one-way from the backup side will prevent any hacker access to the backups if the whole system is compromised.

This is why many backup systems operate as a series of snapshots in a way that earlier snapshots aren't able to be overwritten.
(e.g pulled from the backup-store side rather than pushed)
It's not always immediately apparent that a problem occurred on a live system, so earlier backups may be required to reconstruct things.

Rassah

legendary

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Just a thought. Someone's site getting compromised means the hacker can also likely force the backup system to overwrite the backed p wallet with a blank/corrupt one. Would it be better to have the site operator "backup" an encrypted wallet to a specified directory, and the external backup service to the grabbing of the file off that server themselves? Keeping it one-way from the backup side will prevent any hacker access to the backups if the whole system is compromised.

Topic: The mybitcoin.com taught us a lesson (Read 4470 times)