Topic: The Old Radical: How Bitcoin Is Being Destroyed - page 2. (Read 6026 times)
US is not whole world. The Bitcoin usage will go trough Tor, VPN or anything else and be completely hidden from law. Childporn is illegal but pedos are sharing CP all over darknet. Drug dealing is illegal but Silk Road and similar places exist and are blooming. Political dissent is illegal but dissidents are writing using Tor. You see the trend? Bitcoin is another weapon in this arms race of freedom that gives us great advantage!
I'm not seeing any reason laws couldn't be passed to make Bitcoin or some aspect of its technical underpinnings illegal in the US. There's a clever fella in here who has the tagline "Democracy is the original 51% attack" (or something to that effect) under his avatar...there are a lot of things that can be made illegal by passing laws that would be tough to argue are unconstitutional.
Quote
The key difference is that with Free Libre Open Source is that the source code is there for everyone to see. If a GNU/Linux distributer were to distribute binaries that did not match the source code they would be exposed in no time and in addition would be liable to civil and criminal liability for copyright infringement. So I do not need to inspect every line of code to not trust the GNU/Linux distributer and yet use that distribution.
ORLY? With so much code does everyone ACTUALLY verifies that the Debian ISO's he compiles and packages match the same ISO's that are available for download? Don't take this as a criticism of open source model, the open source is superior but there is much to be done that is not done.Quote
Of course the fact many Bitcoin users do not run Windows is a great source of strength for the bitcoin network.
Redundancy in diversity, no single point of failure.Quote
P2P file sharing is not illegal. Copyright infringement may be illegal under certain circumstances; however the most common liability for individuals is civil damages.
You are too US-centric. Cops just start downloading copyrighted torrent and gather the IP addresses of peers. They don't do this here now, but the legal and technical base is already established.Quote
In the scenario where a government were to try to stop Bitcoin the most efficient method would be to get Microsoft and Apple to shutdown most of the nodes. They can then concentrate their resources on the much fewer remaining GNU/Linux nodes. What is is really scary is that this can be done without making Bitcoin illegal thereby avoiding the legal and constitutional challenges that would arise in many countries. The best analogy is Wikileaks, just replace VISA, MasterCard, PayPal etc. with Microsoft and Apple in the Bitcoin case.
It will not work! In worst case scenario users will reinstall Windows from DVD and be back and very pissed. You cannot reliably prevent come program from being run on computer by user. Microsoft Malicious software removal tool or various antiviruses might be such program but it can do such padla only once! 
Quote
Have you seen the source code for what you download from Technet?
No, but You also did not manually inspect your favorite Linux source code line-by-line to see if it contains backdoors and you cannot be sure that the ISO images You used are compiled from these sources, right? The patch files contain files and instructions that can be unpacked and inspected (at least what files are replaced etc.).Quote
If the answer is no then you a trusting Microsoft.
I'm fully aware of this problem.Quote
Unless one does not update Windows at all there is no getting around the trust of a single centralized authority controlling over 90% of computers worldwide.
Not updating is bad idea, just as bad as allowing the Windows Update to install whatever Microsoft pushes on Windows update. At least I inspect every patch before I put them on my production computers.But even if the network suffers attack from Microsoft that disables 60% of nodes, the network will continue to function. Yes it is true that FPGA and ASIC must be controlled by computer, but many miners use other OS than Windows. There is less Bitcoin users that run Windows than in general population. Microsoft using such method will be like a Derp Gun - single shot, high damage, low accuracy and years long reload time.
Of course the fact many Bitcoin users do not run Windows is a great source of strength for the bitcoin network.More danger will come from making Bitcoin illegal like P2P file sharing is. The Bitcoin is not encrypted or obfuscated and users who are running nodes in plain can be harassed by law enforcement like torrent uploaders are right now.
P2P file sharing is not illegal. Copyright infringement may be illegal under certain circumstances; however the most common liability for individuals is civil damages. In the scenario where a government were to try to stop Bitcoin the most efficient method would be to get Microsoft and Apple to shutdown most of the nodes. They can then concentrate their resources on the much fewer remaining GNU/Linux nodes. What is is really scary is that this can be done without making Bitcoin illegal thereby avoiding the legal and constitutional challenges that would arise in many countries. The best analogy is Wikileaks, just replace VISA, MasterCard, PayPal etc. with Microsoft and Apple in the Bitcoin case.Quote
Have you seen the source code for what you download from Technet?
No, but You also did not manually inspect your favorite Linux source code line-by-line to see if it contains backdoors and you cannot be sure that the ISO images You used are compiled from these sources, right? The patch files contain files and instructions that can be unpacked and inspected (at least what files are replaced etc.).Quote
If the answer is no then you a trusting Microsoft.
I'm fully aware of this problem.Quote
Unless one does not update Windows at all there is no getting around the trust of a single centralized authority controlling over 90% of computers worldwide.
Not updating is bad idea, just as bad as allowing the Windows Update to install whatever Microsoft pushes on Windows update. At least I inspect every patch before I put them on my production computers.But even if the network suffers attack from Microsoft that disables 60% of nodes, the network will continue to function. Yes it is true that FPGA and ASIC must be controlled by computer, but many miners use other OS than Windows. There is less Bitcoin users that run Windows than in general population. Microsoft using such method will be like a Derp Gun - single shot, high damage, low accuracy and years long reload time.
More danger will come from making Bitcoin illegal like P2P file sharing is. The Bitcoin is not encrypted or obfuscated and users who are running nodes in plain can be harassed by law enforcement like torrent uploaders are right now.
Quote
Microsoft could easily issue a patch to Windows that would disable all bitcoin related software on computers running Windows.
And how exactly they are supposed to trick users installing this crap? Power users usually disable automatic updates and download them manually from technet. Windows Genuine Advantage will never happen again!Have you seen the source code for what you download from Technet? If the answer is no then you a trusting Microsoft. Unless one does not update Windows at all there is no getting around the trust of a single centralized authority controlling over 90% of computers worldwide. The name of this authority with centralized control is Microsoft.
Bitcoin is international, so good luck for the governments or the banks to stop it.
Microsoft could easily issue a patch to Windows that would disable all bitcoin related software on computers running Windows. This would shut down a very large portion of the bitcoin nodes and mining hashing power. This is a far greater threat to bitcoin in my opinion than the potential actions of governments or banks.
I seriously doubt Windows can even be made to run on the likes of BFL's FPGA and ASICs. And nodes aren't exactly scarce - even if nine tenths of them go down in a day the Bitcoin network is basically fine.
If the FPGA or ASIC is controlled via a Microsoft Windows machine the vulnerability is still there; however I do agree that FPGAs and / or ASICs will reduce greatly the danger to the bitcoin network posed by botnets of infected Windows computers. As to the impact on the bitcoin network of shutting down all the Windows nodes and mining, while I do believe bitcoin would survive in that scenario it is the single biggest risk to bitcoin from one single centralized source.
Quote
Microsoft could easily issue a patch to Windows that would disable all bitcoin related software on computers running Windows.
And how exactly they are supposed to trick users installing this crap? Power users usually disable automatic updates and download them manually from technet. Windows Genuine Advantage will never happen again! 
Very interesting article.
1) It is what I can see here, speculation, people that don't believe in bitcoin philosophy, people trying to get rich so fast: the root of all evil. Bitcoin is not a 'X dolar ticket'!
2) To never being destroyed what we need is: derivatives, bitcoin index, future bitcoin market, loan of inexistent bitcoins again and again, bitcoin banks! regulations! So in a few months bitcoin will be 'To big to fail'
1) It is what I can see here, speculation, people that don't believe in bitcoin philosophy, people trying to get rich so fast: the root of all evil. Bitcoin is not a 'X dolar ticket'!
2) To never being destroyed what we need is: derivatives, bitcoin index, future bitcoin market, loan of inexistent bitcoins again and again, bitcoin banks! regulations! So in a few months bitcoin will be 'To big to fail'
no laws needed, the currency has all rules in it itself.
What's with your freakish avatars? First Bin Laden and now Gaddafi?
Do we have to put you on a terrorist watch list or something?
Freaky to say the least dude... Freaky...
Bitcoin is international, so good luck for the governments or the banks to stop it.
Microsoft could easily issue a patch to Windows that would disable all bitcoin related software on computers running Windows. This would shut down a very large portion of the bitcoin nodes and mining hashing power. This is a far greater threat to bitcoin in my opinion than the potential actions of governments or banks.
I seriously doubt Windows can even be made to run on the likes of BFL's FPGA and ASICs. And nodes aren't exactly scarce - even if nine tenths of them go down in a day the Bitcoin network is basically fine.
Bitcoin is international, so good luck for the governments or the banks to stop it.
Microsoft could easily issue a patch to Windows that would disable all bitcoin related software on computers running Windows. This would shut down a very large portion of the bitcoin nodes and mining hashing power. This is a far greater threat to bitcoin in my opinion than the potential actions of governments or banks.
I think the old radical has a very significant point. I wasn't alive at the time, but we all held gold in the form of USD (we meaning the US and many WWII allied nations) because our dollar was backed by gold and many nations currencies were pegged to the dollar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system). Nixon nixed that. Suddenly, a large fraction of the world began an experiment in fiat currency. Fiat unseated gold....right out from under the feet of many sovereign nations.
If countries like the UK and France couldn't stop the devaluation of their currencies, why do we think bitcoin will succeed? While it may be technically challenging to completely stop Bitcoin, it probably won't be too hard to make it inconvenient enough that very few people want to use it.
If bitcoin does keep growing, there will be a battle....perhaps a bit more literally than one might think...I'm not as hard core as the old radical and I would probably fold quickly. Heck, I might fold while the folding is good....but I'm folding into gold.
If countries like the UK and France couldn't stop the devaluation of their currencies, why do we think bitcoin will succeed? While it may be technically challenging to completely stop Bitcoin, it probably won't be too hard to make it inconvenient enough that very few people want to use it.
If bitcoin does keep growing, there will be a battle....perhaps a bit more literally than one might think...I'm not as hard core as the old radical and I would probably fold quickly. Heck, I might fold while the folding is good....but I'm folding into gold.
Bitcoin is international, so good luck for the governments or the banks to stop it.
They can always shut down the Internet.
Google shut down in China for a few days last year lol.
Bitcoin is international, so good luck for the governments or the banks to stop it.
They can always shut down the Internet.
Bitcoin is international, so good luck for the governments or the banks to stop it.
But actually, bitcoin can exist with old financial system. Don't believe it? Take a look at this here experimental verification: right now they do exist together.
Of course they do, but right now Bitcoin is nary e'en a flea upon the Banksters' backs. So of course the states and banks don't really see a threat... yet. But what if the global Bitcoin economy - underground or otherwise - takes over more than, say, 1% of total GDP? Won't states and major banks begin to see the potential threat then and maybe attempt to take action? The emphasis lies upon the word "attempt", for such regulatory or hostile actions may very well prove unsuccessful.
Great post thanks 
But actually, bitcoin can exist with old financial system. Don't believe it? Take a look at this here experimental verification: right now they do exist together.
But actually, bitcoin can exist with old financial system. Don't believe it? Take a look at this here experimental verification: right now they do exist together.
Fuck the stupid laws, that's all I have to say
Quote
Because of GLBSE, Bitcoin is now being regarded as a currency and states will start to regulate it as one. That means that they’ll attack the public exchangers and force everyone possible to comply with their rules.
How will that happen? If you are right this is more incentive to decentralize "public exchangers". Just like Diaspora ( http://diasporaproject.org/) the power will remain in the hands of the people.
Jump to: