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Topic: "The price of your bitcoin is 1000 times overvalued" - page 3. (Read 29077 times)

sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 251
Content| Press Releases | Articles | Strategy
i do laugh at those that only care about a future FIAT value while pretending "banks are bad, governments are bad"
I share your opinion, but we also can't focus on Bitcoin alone and detach ourselves from linking it to fiat, not yet.
We don't and we won't have "bitcoin only" economy, not in the foreseeable future.
I don't want to focus on fiat to btc value relation, but I have no choice, although flawed by design, this is the only benchmark we have.

^^ Brilliantly stated,  I absolutely needed to read those words today, Maku.


Bitcoin needs fiat because fixed supply just doesn't work with a currency. The dynamic development and progress of the economy always needs dynamic supply of currency, because without it, there would be no value stability. And the lack of value stability is the criteria of a low quality currency. Even high inflation is better if it's devaluation is happening in a predictable rate. Unpredictable value is the worse, because it's impossible to make any future estimates while using an unpredictable value currency as a point of reference. If you make your calculations for a 3 year long project with currency, that can go -+500% in that time-frame, then you're gonna have a bad time.
A lot of youtube educated bitcoiners try to demonize not only banking in general, but also all the economic and financial practical issues that counteract with their hopes of becoming rich by bitcoin speculation.

Mervyn,
You are probably not wrong about the YouTube educated generation, of which I am a slightly embarrassed member. We do tend to dream a tad too far out of the bounds of reality, and I had not heard this perspective yet, believe it or not. It isn't so much that I aim to demonize traditional fiat, but I predict the methods in which traditional banking accounts for transactions will change forever.  I know the adoption of a more clever way of reconciling the ledgers is altering the operation of all finance.  I am talking about the functions introduced through our Blockchain, and of course the beloved centerpiece of the publicly distributed ledger, Bitcoin.

So I suppose I should say Banks will be forced to adopt blockchain type technology because it is a better way for consumers to properly account for their consumption, and a better way to keep transactions in the daylight where all hands on deck can be seen, and must be clean
.
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 544
I agree with him that bitcoin price is overvalued but I don't think that it is 1000 times overvalued. Maybe the current price we have now is not the real value of bitcoin as a currency but rather we see now the value of bitcoin as an asset and a currency. Many treats it like an asset to buy and sell for profit in terms of fiat so it really is overvalued at some point because there's a manipulation by some people.
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
i do laugh at those that only care about a future FIAT value while pretending "banks are bad, governments are bad"
I share your opinion, but we also can't focus on Bitcoin alone and detach ourselves from linking it to fiat, not yet.
We don't and we won't have "bitcoin only" economy, not in the foreseeable future.
I don't want to focus on fiat to btc value relation, but I have no choice, although flawed by design, this is the only benchmark we have.

Bitcoin needs fiat because fixed supply just doesn't work with a currency. The dynamic development and progress of the economy always needs dynamic supply of currency, because without it, there would be no value stability. And the lack of value stability is the criteria of a low quality currency. Even high inflation is better if it's devaluation is happening in a predictable rate. Unpredictable value is the worse, because it's impossible to make any future estimates while using an unpredictable value currency as a point of reference. If you make your calculations for a 3 year long project with currency, that can go -+500% in that time-frame, then you're gonna have a bad time.
A lot of youtube educated bitcoiners try to demonize not only banking in general, but also all the economic and financial practical issues that counteract with their hopes of becoming rich by bitcoin speculation.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1000
i do laugh at those that only care about a future FIAT value while pretending "banks are bad, governments are bad"
I share your opinion, but we also can't focus on Bitcoin alone and detach ourselves from linking it to fiat, not yet.
We don't and we won't have "bitcoin only" economy, not in the foreseeable future.
I don't want to focus on fiat to btc value relation, but I have no choice, although flawed by design, this is the only benchmark we have.
legendary
Activity: 876
Merit: 1000
He doesn't weigh in the utility that bitcoin has in the black and grey markets. The myth of bitcoin becoming a practical tool of finance has been debunked in professional financial circles years ago already. But still there are a lot of shenanigans going on that are attracted to the unregulated and opaque nature of the bitcoin market system. Illegal money is the invisible pillar that is holding up the price. If it would be pure speculation, then it would have collapsed already.
member
Activity: 115
Merit: 10
how much does a bitcoin worth?
Some say:“Worthless. It’s just a Ponzi scheme.”
Some hail:“Priceless! It’s the future of money.”
A Chinese economist Ou Chengxiao,  often nicknamed”Ou Guru” said yesterday "The price of bitcoin is 1000 times overvalued". He believed that the value of currency is decided by its scale of circulation, or adoption. But now the lack of businesses that accept the digital currency as payment has been holding bitcoin back from wider adoption. not so many people are buying things with btc.
 i am a little confused why he is so sure bitcoin price is 1000 times overvalued. why not 100? 10? why exactly 1000? Do you agree with him?



It's possible that the price of bitcoins is based on a demand only. What I mean is that people may want bitcoins for the potential and are demanding it as an investment which makes the price go up. But if people want it for that price, then isn't that what it is worth?

I happen to think bitcoin is way "overvalued " but not 1000 times in that i think at least 80% of its current price is speculators  but in a way it does not really matter.

Take me as an example. I own about $8,000 worth of bitcoin. I have $5,000 worth to use eg send to family, friends overseas in an emergency (as a sort of western union). I see $5000 would get a plane ticket out or an operation etc if no travel insurance etc.

The other $3000 is to have just in case the price goes up big time.

Now say the price "crashes" to $200 which is where I think it "should" be. To have the $5,000 worth set aside I then need 25 bitcoins and I have only 8. So i will buy at least 17 more to get back to where I need to be. 

I think there would be alot of people out there like me ie have good reasons to buy more bitcoins as the price drops by a decent amount ie at least say 40%.

So aside from speculators creating "demand' actual bitcoin users will also create demand so it is not overvalued by 1000 times
member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
I don't agree with him that bitcoin is overvalued in terms of price because we can't get to this price point if there is no real support from the users or investors of bitcoin. Bitcoin is a controlled free currency and its price is always depending in the market so there is no proof that bitcoin is really overvalued.

If bitcoin is overvalued then there is a lot of bitcoin users, holders and investors are doing panic selling because the price is not stable when overvalued. So i highly believed that bitcoin is not overvalued and it deserves what its current price now.
it's exactly about the market. So his point is tt adoption=market, if the current adoption is limited, than the market is small.
member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
Who can say that Bitcoin price is overestimated? It's the market and the factors that influence it who deteremines the Bitcoin price. Price is volatile and changes all the time and despite some theories I don't think the price could be deliberately manipulated. Besides, I don't think that high value could harm Bitcoin.
His point is that the value of one currency=the scale of circulation of the currency=the reach of government control. He also mentioned that what's behind each currency is seigniorage. You can read the whole story here: http://news.8btc.com/the-price-of-your-bitcoin-is-1000-times-overvalued
member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
the first mistake this guy is making is calling it a currency. it really isn't for now. for most people it's an asset.
the problem is if asset can not flow freely, than what's the point for holding such an asset?
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
ClaimWithMe - the most paying faucet of all times!
Do not fall in this FUD, because that is what it is, nothing else. I would not say we have a lack of bussinesses accepting Bitcoin when we can count Amazon, Steam, Microsoft, Lamborghini and many more.

There are still quite a lot of businesses that first accepted btc and after a short period of time they dont want it anymore because of its volatility.
There are quite a lot of people have different plans of implementing bitcoin. Only the volatile nature and the user base are the one that are responsible for the price variation. So nothing seems to be overvalued,  the growth is a stabilized one.


It seems like eventually whether we like it or not, Bitcoin will BECOME the centralized currency, or something digitally equivalent.  A type of universally accepted currency is a way to make the world function more efficiently and it's probably not long before a group of suits declares themselves the "New World Bitcoinologysts" hehe.
.  I don't suggest the fulfilling of any prophecies but I think it is happening anyway.   Perhaps it will have a less sinister undertone than the massses are expecting.  Who knows?
Being accepted doesn't make it centralised.  It is unfortunate that Bitcoin pretty much is going to naturally become more centralised as time goes on, but a master currency having a lot of money doesn't inherently make it centralised.
sr. member
Activity: 672
Merit: 251
Content| Press Releases | Articles | Strategy
Do not fall in this FUD, because that is what it is, nothing else. I would not say we have a lack of bussinesses accepting Bitcoin when we can count Amazon, Steam, Microsoft, Lamborghini and many more.

There are still quite a lot of businesses that first accepted btc and after a short period of time they dont want it anymore because of its volatility.
There are quite a lot of people have different plans of implementing bitcoin. Only the volatile nature and the user base are the one that are responsible for the price variation. So nothing seems to be overvalued,  the growth is a stabilized one.


It seems like eventually whether we like it or not, Bitcoin will BECOME the centralized currency, or something digitally equivalent.  A type of universally accepted currency is a way to make the world function more efficiently and it's probably not long before a group of suits declares themselves the "New World Bitcoinologysts" hehe.
.  I don't suggest the fulfilling of any prophecies but I think it is happening anyway.   Perhaps it will have a less sinister undertone than the massses are expecting.  Who knows?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
TaaS is a closed-end fund designated to blockchain
Do not fall in this FUD, because that is what it is, nothing else. I would not say we have a lack of bussinesses accepting Bitcoin when we can count Amazon, Steam, Microsoft, Lamborghini and many more.

There are still quite a lot of businesses that first accepted btc and after a short period of time they dont want it anymore because of its volatility.
There are quite a lot of people have different plans of implementing bitcoin. Only the volatile nature and the user base are the one that are responsible for the price variation. So nothing seems to be overvalued,  the growth is a stabilized one.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
Do not fall in this FUD, because that is what it is, nothing else. I would not say we have a lack of bussinesses accepting Bitcoin when we can count Amazon, Steam, Microsoft, Lamborghini and many more.

There are still quite a lot of businesses that first accepted btc and after a short period of time they dont want it anymore because of its volatility.
sr. member
Activity: 440
Merit: 250
Do not fall in this FUD, because that is what it is, nothing else. I would not say we have a lack of bussinesses accepting Bitcoin when we can count Amazon, Steam, Microsoft, Lamborghini and many more.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
I really don't know how to determine what real price is at the moment so i can't be sure is this true? Once price was 1$, so from this point of view price is already 1000x more, and demand now is 1000x in relation to the mentioned period, right?
How we can be so sure that we are not victims of manipulative games?
hero member
Activity: 910
Merit: 523
how much does a bitcoin worth?
Some say:“Worthless. It’s just a Ponzi scheme.”
Some hail:“Priceless! It’s the future of money.”
A Chinese economist Ou Chengxiao,  often nicknamed”Ou Guru” said yesterday "The price of bitcoin is 1000 times overvalued". He believed that the value of currency is decided by its scale of circulation, or adoption. But now the lack of businesses that accept the digital currency as payment has been holding bitcoin back from wider adoption. not so many people are buying things with btc.
 i am a little confused why he is so sure bitcoin price is 1000 times overvalued. why not 100? 10? why exactly 1000? Do you agree with him?

Current price speak the truth, people still want bitcoin simply because it has big potential with many of its advantages to grow up more than current price level. What he said just pure speculation of his thought. For now, bitcoin cannot state as currency even though we can buy some goods using bitcoin but I consider it as another medium of exchange. If we want say bitcoin as currency, yes ; bitcoin need to scale and accepted by many people over the world, maybe about quarter of population will be enough. For now, I consider bitcoin like gold, or commodity but not a currency.
sr. member
Activity: 392
Merit: 250
So you're saying bitcoin should be $1 per bitcoin.

there's no way that's ever going to happen, it has not been that low since years and it won't ever even get close to that low of a value.
I dont believe in overvalued or undervalued kind of talk. The price represents the good at that moment of time. Only in huge dumps or pumps you can talk about over or undervalued assets. Anayway btc is flat now, waiting for scaling news. Positive is up, negative is down. Its always been that way. When people think its overvalued just wait untill it reaches the price you want to pay for it. Its so simple. Looks like not a lot of people want to pay higher than the current price because of scaling. So its likely we will go down untill people think muhh cheap.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1005
So you're saying bitcoin should be $1 per bitcoin.

there's no way that's ever going to happen, it has not been that low since years and it won't ever even get close to that low of a value.
legendary
Activity: 3248
Merit: 1070
my opinion on this is that the value of bitcoin should be equal to the one needed to secure the nertwork by miners, since miners are the "guards" you need to pay them

this payment is the true value of bitcoin, anything below that and the network will fall and begin to be unsecure

the minimum value should be no less than the one needed fro an antminer to pay for the consumption and earn something for the miner

now you need 5-6 antminer to have the same revenue of one antminer in the past, this is due to the diff that keep increase, this is no different than having a single antminer consuming 5-6 times more....
sr. member
Activity: 291
Merit: 250
I think the economist is correct! Bitcoin itself is intrinsically worthless, just like seashells are worthless but were used as money in the past.
Bitcoin is now worth >$1000 just because it has gained acceptance by more and more people- this is where its value lies.
The worth of any object is determined by different variables and it does entertain the masses and with the limited amount of the product it is quite natural to have the valuation it is having at the moment and if you really want to compare something with seashells it is better to look out for gold and petroleum as seashells also have its own price.  Tongue
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