The production of money... is SCAM! - page 6.

STT

legendary

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Governments are basically controlling the supply of national money. In theory USA keeps Federal reserve (other countries are more obvious perhaps) at a distance in theory private even not public ownership but in effect there is a massive influence from rising costs to Fiscal budgets every time interest rates rise.

I believe the figure is over a billion extra in interest for every one percent, it might be far worse then that but I dont have the figures to say exactly.

The FED themselves might be the best source for the stats though I would advise people to draw their own conclusions

Quote from: FED

Over 5 years does not constitute long term imo. USA has one of the shortest average term debt in the world and its been lowered on purpose as this is actually cheaper to finance while rates are able to stay low. The real sudden danger can be that rates have to rise and all the short term debt shifts dangerously into much higher costs. If rates have to rise while the economy is not growing and tax revenue falls its an unstable and positive feedback situation where interest on the debt increases fiscal costs at the same time. (Great cuts required to repay or control debt during a recession is quite unlikely)

Overall this implies great weakness in dollar. I agree in theory the dollar might be laid out in a separated way but also the nature of the problem is likely the path of least resistance, which is that dollar loses a horrible amount of value under pressure

https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional-economist/third-quarter-2018/rising-rates-borrowing-government

Mikeschmitt

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The governments were not controlling their country's money,it's controlled by their central banks. The government is the biggest scammer and this is within their control. Mind conditioning and paid news shelling is one of their profiting from.

coinplus

legendary

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Quote from: maculeth on October 18, 2018, 09:49:50 PM

Quote from: snatoshi on October 18, 2018, 02:44:13 PM

So he just literally admits they create the 85,000,000,000 usd out of nowhere to rescue the private company. This isn't the way capitalism should work and it's more like socialism where everybody takes the loses Angry

precisely in this way, can trigger a country to experience a continuing crisis which will lead to hyperinflation.

Well, that is what the whole idea of centralization is all about which is more like stealing from Peter to pay Paul.
Scam all the way! That is what government has always been and that is what they will always be! Unfortunately those who suffer the repercussions of their decision making and monetary policies or spending’s eventually are those in the lower chain.

The funny thing though is that they always have a way of making people to believe what they want them to believe and that is actually what worries me the most, but well it stopped worrying me since bitcoin came into existence anyway. Let decentralization rule.

wuvdoll

legendary

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The printing of money could be scam but "production" of money makes no sense at all. No one produce money at all, they print it for free and give it to the market and during the 2009 deal it was printed so that the money that just went up in smoke could be replaced and the market wouldn't cripple at once because of the bankrupt banks.

Obviously, it was no surprise that no one in those banks actually gotten any jail time or even a proper earful considering it should have been a real trouble for all of them but I guess that is what you expect the banks that control the governments to be saved by those same governments when they are in need as well.

If the banks fall than almost everyone in the world falls and than politicians wouldn't get the money they are getting from them as "lobbying".

Irvinn

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I think everything is fine here. Cash or its equivalent in gold is stored in the Federal Reserve System, as has been said. To give money to the bank, it is not necessary to transport this money to them. They are kept in place, but a certain amount of non-cash transfer is transferred to this bank. The Federal Reserve System notes how much money is held by a particular bank. In the future, the bank may transfer some part of this amount further; a corresponding entry is again made about this until it is noted that the money has been returned back to the Federal Reserve System. This is how a cashless system works. Money works, although they are actually safe in place, it makes no sense to constantly carry and transfer them from hand to hand.

Angelique Donovan

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The governments were not controlling their country's money,it was controlled by their central banks. the government has no control over it so, why are they allowed? This sytem was founded in the 18th century and the system hasn't changed that drasitically as they are still following this system and they are making all the money to decrease in value over time. I could be wrong now and there could be even more factors playing a big part in this and if so, that can be further discussed.

GenesisDominguez

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Its only normal imagining how often this type of money production has happened before. Seems like because they were close with the Government, they escaped by making money out of thin air.

snatoshi

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Quote from: bubblebit on October 18, 2018, 03:14:59 PM

The government is the biggest scammer and this is within their control. The financial system that been hit by this massive fraud in wall street. Oh, I forgot that mainstream media and the likes are on the same channel and part of this since they're the main information sources in our society.

Mind conditioning and paid news shelling is one of they're profiting from. Politics do control everything in this world and that's what we get from being a puppet of this corrupt and self centered public servants.

And that's why a truly decentralized system matters even more than the impact of the overall blockchain industry has doing today. We need to get rid of authoritarian villains who only seek to fulfill their only greedy and ambitious purposes. I hope, soon technology will bring us closer and closer to that stage of human society Grin

ylnar123

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Quote from: snatoshi on October 18, 2018, 02:44:13 PM

Just after the financial crisis in 2009, the journalist Scott Pelley asked Ben Bernanke on the 60 minutes CBS TV show where did they get the money for the AIG bailout in march 14, 2009? was these money of the taxpayer people?

He just said:"No. It isn't money from the taxpayers. The banks has it's own accounts with the Federal Reserve as well as you can have one with one commercial bank."

He continued: "In such way, to loan to a bank, one just simply uses the computer to mark up the size of the account they had with the Federal Reserve"

So he just literally admits they create the 85,000,000,000 usd out of nowhere to rescue the private company. This isn't the way capitalism should work and it's more like socialism where everybody takes the loses Angry

It's not impossible for them to loan for that amount but let's not judge them directly by saying they are scams. Yes production of money needs to have a back up of gold's in the deposits and it not just from the taxpayers money but also from the private sector who would lend money from the federal reserves.

the13thsymphony

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I have seen somewhere(I do not remember if its in the news or in the internet) that the world is in trillions of dollars in debt, but to whom they are in debt is unknown but there are many speculations that it is the banks that are pulling the strings as you can see in a certain government to sustain their annual expense in their different sector they would have their yearly budget from their peoples tax, however there are chances that the budget will fall short for their needed expense so some government will loan to the world bank to make up for it, however it is still questionable how can a government make millions to billions of loan to such banking institutions almost yearly and so the speculation that banks can just make up these money comes up and upon seeing this post it seems like it is true, however for us to be sure we would still need to have an article about what Ben Bernanke said.

charlotte04

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Quote from: snatoshi on October 18, 2018, 02:44:13 PM

Just after the financial crisis in 2009, the journalist Scott Pelley asked Ben Bernanke on the 60 minutes CBS TV show where did they get the money for the AIG bailout in march 14, 2009? was these money of the taxpayer people?

He just said:"No. It isn't money from the taxpayers. The banks has it's own accounts with the Federal Reserve as well as you can have one with one commercial bank."

He continued: "In such way, to loan to a bank, one just simply uses the computer to mark up the size of the account they had with the Federal Reserve"

So he just literally admits they create the 85,000,000,000 usd out of nowhere to rescue the private company. This isn't the way capitalism should work and it's more like socialism where everybody takes the loses Angry

It can be since we don't know what is happening inside of those facilities that makes money. We may have been fooled all this time by those kind of people but crypto will make a change to that someday.

STT

legendary

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'Profited' while government runs further into debt and dollar is losing its value vs real goods, its a treadmill perspective but I take the point they gained in theory.

Derivatives also may expire worthless while keeping a potential liability on a balance sheet until the very last day of trade. My personal take on that figure would be in comparison to the exposure an insurance company has, gigantic bills can occur with disasters and many insurance payouts but its also true many liabilities expire at zero sum and only to the profit of the issuer which in your example would be the banks and how they profit in financial services and trading.

Quote

if cryptos will get more popular , it will become a financial factor around the globe and US will have to worry about who has the most power over it ( mining) .

Mining also is a kind of liability with asset investment required. I'm not sure miners do have the most power exactly, didnt we have a large section who wanted to make BCH the main forked chain much like how ETH took over in that disagreement.
I think users might still have a large part in deciding who to place their transactions with in order that miners receive profits from transaction fees in that business.

Hydrogen

legendary

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There are many interesting points and factoids to emerge as a result of the 2008 financial crisis and the TARP (trouble asset relief program) which followed it. I'll list a few of them for you. This is all from memory and so might not be 100% accurate but will be close.

#1 The federal reserve profited around $40 billion dollars from the loans they made to troubled banks.

#2 Subprime mortgages and OTC derivatives only consisted of roughly 15% of the overall debt banks were liable for. The official explanation citing subprime mortgages could have been a distraction from the real issue which was over leveraged derivatives markets.

#3 The TARP and bank bailout program is still ongoing today with many banks in europe still requiring bail outs.

#4 Current derivatives exposure for banks is measured in trillions of dollars and is much larger than the total GDP of entire nations.

This is all off the top of my head. There are many interesting angles to the crisis that are neglected and mostly ignored within the grand scheme of things.

mazdafunsun

full member

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I think most of intelegent people is aware of the current way of banking, money is made from nothing , in some cases it has clever ,fancy names which makes regualr Joe think that those smart eduacted people know what are they doing. i find it fasinating how our society is living in this economy which is based on borrowing and printing money in circles, This is why we end up in crisis form time to time.

Quote from: STT on October 19, 2018, 04:19:31 AM

I also very much expected US government to strongly oppose crypto as an alien product to the process of money printing and continual debt issuance. But I do also think democracy is in operation and the beast that is government is not of a single mind but will allow competition while it is open, possibly growth producing and most importantly is willing to pay taxes.

i dont that this will be the case, if cryptos will get more popular , it will become a financial factor around the globe and US will have to worry about who has the most power over it ( mining) .

ss890

sr. member

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on October 18, 2018, 03:18:33 PM

Quote from: bubblebit on October 18, 2018, 03:14:59 PM

The government is the biggest scammer and this is within their control. The financial system that been hit by this massive fraud in wall street. Oh, I forgot that mainstream media and the likes are on the same channel and part of this since they're the main information sources in our society.

Mind conditioning and paid news shelling is one of they're profiting from.

To be honest the governments were not controlling their country's money,it is controlled by their central banks that is why we call it as central banks even the government has no control over it so why we are allowing them? This sytem was found in 18th century and the creators were still following this system ad they are making all our money to decrease its value over time.

Yes a government has nothing to do with the banking system because both of them are two different bodies. For example, central bank will look after all the financial work flows and it will cover from salaries, international trades, businesses, small savings to big billion bonds and stuff like that.
A government will only look after Taxation at the max as there officials will be involved.
So whatever happens within central banks control is entirely there own business and decisions.

STT

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I also very much expected US government to strongly oppose crypto as an alien product to the process of money printing and continual debt issuance. But I do also think democracy is in operation and the beast that is government is not of a single mind but will allow competition while it is open, possibly growth producing and most importantly is willing to pay taxes.

Right now we have more a failure in capitalism then democracy and it is possible to fix capitalism while it will sting alot as the wound is treated. Great defaults in debt have occurred at other times in history and thats probably what should happen now, the big problem is the debt is tied to the largest most powerful and most respected democracy in the world but that doesnt mean the debt isnt bad

aoluain

legendary

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Quote from: cellard on October 18, 2018, 10:04:47 PM

1) They will, but they haven't war mode against it yet, they still don't consider it a treat for the status quo because it's too small
2) They've realized they can't ever get rid of it and they will eventually adopt it as world reserve currency (after demoralizing everyone but hardcore hodlers into dumping coins to them for cheap prices)

I would probably agree with your option 1 more than option 2. I recon governments could shake
iut more people if they started issuing bans and further regulations on entry and exit points.

The vast majority of people dont understand economics and dont think its a serious matter when
governments and banks trick with the finances, others dont care enough either so they know
they can get away with it.

cellard

legendary

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Quote from: STT on October 18, 2018, 07:16:53 PM

Its a monopoly on the production of national currency, some might say well the government should command this facility to stop fraud and counterfeits. The problem is there is no set schedule to that system of money, its value is not tied to anything and ultimately the money is produced in line with political will.

The origins of the US dollar were eroded at various points that otherwise would have supported its value and stopped this descent. One of the most mentioned in the news is the fiscal budget ceiling, which is raised at every question. This ceiling should fixed but as money itself declines in value the costs also rise needing a constant raise just to stand still.

What should be happening is a fiscal surplus but there is no political will to force such a harsh change in climate to the current continual deficit spending policies. The only likely change will be external to USA and hence this failure of control represents a probable national threat.
Its not unknown or unrecognised by many parties but so far it has been unstoppable. This is not capitalism, the means of value and capital are with the people as is the production. It differs strongly with a nation guided by nationalised ownership of major assets and business. Fixing rates (and monetary production) is just one such dominant assets operated by government, theres no question they must continue to devalue dollar so long as the debt goes unpaid in deficit budgets.

Its part of the backdrop to crypto and the stressed importance of distributed ownership and operation to split vested interest and bias

It always seemed ridiculous to me how the whole point of government issued money is basically being forced at gunpoint to accept a product, that is, their product.

They will shut down anything that challenges the status quo. There isn't even competing banks, everything is extremely centralized. If at least banks were able to compete with each others and decide on how the money is issued, but there's nothing to do, you either accept it or you are dead basically.

The fact that they haven't put a war on bitcoin only leads me to two conclusions:

1) They will, but they haven't war mode against it yet, they still don't consider it a treat for the status quo because it's too small
2) They've realized they can't ever get rid of it and they will eventually adopt it as world reserve currency (after demoralizing everyone but hardcore hodlers into dumping coins to them for cheap prices)

maculeth

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Quote from: snatoshi on October 18, 2018, 02:44:13 PM

So he just literally admits they create the 85,000,000,000 usd out of nowhere to rescue the private company. This isn't the way capitalism should work and it's more like socialism where everybody takes the loses Angry

precisely in this way, can trigger a country to experience a continuing crisis which will lead to hyperinflation.

dothebeats

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Cashback 15%

I wouldn't be surprised if that happened, especially if the higher echelons of AIG have some deep connections with the government. Nothing would be checked and investigated in here since the Federal Reserve has been doing this for decades. It's just a shame though that even though we know how everything works, people just turn a blind eye over it and pretend that nothing happened. Also, it's kind of unfair to the working class taking loans in a bank compared to a private company taking loans to save its life. This system is screwed, and money is not created to stimulate the economy anymore but to bail out those who got bankrupt, as long as they have close ties with the government.

Money is today is not backed by anything except the promises, services and infrastructures of the government that us, the citizens are paying for. We're getting screwed in the ass and we still allow it since we believe we can't be without order.

Topic: The production of money... is SCAM! - page 6. (Read 4491 times)