The Real Story of Gold - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

OROBTC

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Quote from: pitham1 on September 04, 2015, 10:43:33 PM

Quote from: HarHarHar9965 on September 03, 2015, 12:23:26 PM

Quote from: malphite on August 31, 2015, 10:57:37 PM

I still love gold, because people can touch, wear it, and use it for cosmetics.

So the value has all around appeal for most people. And as long there is a demand for it, I see profit.

Dude, people wear their underwears everyday too. You can touch it and fucking wear it as a cosmetic if you are into that shit, its not about the extra features it has to offer man, if that's how you feel about an asset or a currency. The only reason there is demand for it is because of its historic existence from decades, if you measure gold in comparison of bitcoin regarding percentage increase in potential, you'd know where to really see profit.

Gold has the faith of governments. Right now, bitcoin is restricted to a community on the internet (and some corporations who see it easing e-commerce transactions). That is a big difference.

And THAT is the big risk of Bitcoin, being that such a small community uses it. I like BTC (I have some) and hope that it succeeds, but gold has 5000 years + of history as the best Store of Value.

The central banks hold gold. So do I. If any of you have children, you should consider holding some too. Inter-generational wealth.

pitham1

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Quote from: HarHarHar9965 on September 03, 2015, 12:23:26 PM

Quote from: malphite on August 31, 2015, 10:57:37 PM

I still love gold, because people can touch, wear it, and use it for cosmetics.

So the value has all around appeal for most people. And as long there is a demand for it, I see profit.

Dude, people wear their underwears everyday too. You can touch it and fucking wear it as a cosmetic if you are into that shit, its not about the extra features it has to offer man, if that's how you feel about an asset or a currency. The only reason there is demand for it is because of its historic existence from decades, if you measure gold in comparison of bitcoin regarding percentage increase in potential, you'd know where to really see profit.

Gold has the faith of governments. Right now, bitcoin is restricted to a community on the internet (and some corporations who see it easing e-commerce transactions). That is a big difference.

HarHarHar9965

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Quote from: malphite on August 31, 2015, 10:57:37 PM

I still love gold, because people can touch, wear it, and use it for cosmetics.

So the value has all around appeal for most people. And as long there is a demand for it, I see profit.

Dude, people wear their underwears everyday too. You can touch it and fucking wear it as a cosmetic if you are into that shit, its not about the extra features it has to offer man, if that's how you feel about an asset or a currency. The only reason there is demand for it is because of its historic existence from decades, if you measure gold in comparison of bitcoin regarding percentage increase in potential, you'd know where to really see profit.

malphite

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I still love gold, because people can touch, wear it, and use it for cosmetics.

So the value has all around appeal for most people. And as long there is a demand for it, I see profit.

maokoto

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Gold will always a good value in my opinion, as it is scarce and is a useful metal (jewelry, conductive properties, ductile etc.)

I love Bitcoin, but it only has value because we agree that it has. Gold has intrinsic value (it is useful per se) just as potatoes Grin

OROBTC

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...

My understanding of the COMEX gold settlement process is very scant, but IIRC, I believe they can settle in cash in extremis (that is, no physical gold for you if they don't have it or want to give it up). It's in their rulebook I once saw quoted at Zero Hedge.

Also, there appear to be onerous delivery requirements for physical gold & silver deliveries (certain warehouses only, use of Brink's and similar, etc.).

Physical gold <> paper gold.

Maybe that should be:

physical gold <<<>>> paper...

markj113

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on August 31, 2015, 04:59:10 AM

Quote from: markj113 on August 31, 2015, 04:32:47 AM

You do have the option of having gold futures settled in metal and delivered although at this point in time many opt to settle in cash.

However there is a clause in the contract where you can be forced to settle in cash (because most of the gold does not exist), when we get to the point where the dollar is failing and people wish to take physical delivery of the metal this is where 125:1 leverage will get messy because 124 people will just get a wad of worthless paper if they want it or not.

Paper gold is nothing but a legalised ponzi where you get a paper claim backed by nothing and should be outlawed.

So you are saying that printed ponzi fraud gold certificate doesnt have enough gold backing it (3-4% maybe) and when people do a run on the banks claiming real gold for their ponzi cerficates:

The bank will give them another printed ponzi fraud IOU called fiat money in exchange for their ponzi fraud gold cerficate?

Hahaha this is just a twilight zone bullshit, I cant believe people are so idiots to fall for it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-03/comex-edge-deliverable-gold-drops-record-low-124-ounces-paper-every-ounce-physical

deisik

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Quote from: markj113 on August 31, 2015, 04:32:47 AM

You do have the option of having gold futures settled in metal and delivered although at this point in time many opt to settle in cash

There are many types of gold futures including those which can be settled only in cash (and these I referred to in my post)...

I guess they make up the majority of traded gold futures

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: markj113 on August 31, 2015, 04:32:47 AM

You do have the option of having gold futures settled in metal and delivered although at this point in time many opt to settle in cash.

However there is a clause in the contract where you can be forced to settle in cash (because most of the gold does not exist), when we get to the point where the dollar is failing and people wish to take physical delivery of the metal this is where 125:1 leverage will get messy because 124 people will just get a wad of worthless paper if they want it or not.

Paper gold is nothing but a legalised ponzi where you get a paper claim backed by nothing and should be outlawed.

So you are saying that printed ponzi fraud gold certificate doesnt have enough gold backing it (3-4% maybe) and when people do a run on the banks claiming real gold for their ponzi cerficates:

The bank will give them another printed ponzi fraud IOU called fiat money in exchange for their ponzi fraud gold cerficate?

Hahaha this is just a twilight zone bullshit, I cant believe people are so idiots to fall for it.

markj113

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You do have the option of having gold futures settled in metal and delivered although at this point in time many opt to settle in cash.

However there is a clause in the contract where you can be forced to settle in cash (because most of the gold does not exist), when we get to the point where the dollar is failing and people wish to take physical delivery of the metal this is where 125:1 leverage will get messy because 124 people will just get a wad of worthless paper if they want it or not.

Paper gold is nothing but a legalised ponzi where you get a paper claim backed by nothing and should be outlawed.

deisik

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Quote from: OROBTC on August 30, 2015, 11:13:45 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 30, 2015, 07:37:55 AM

Quote from: Snorek on August 30, 2015, 06:48:56 AM

And what will happen when gold deposits run dry? I am sure that there are some places on earth with unknown gold deposits, we just need to find them. But my question is will price of gold suddenly skyrocket if gold will be so hard to get? it surely looks that way. It will like 'ultra halving' using bitcoin terminology.

It is extremely unlikely that such hidden gold deposits will be discovered any time in the near future. Gold occurs in certain unique geological formations, and almost all of these formations have been undergoing metal extraction through mining. There are "unrecoverable gold deposits", where recovering gold is not economical. Mining one oz. of gold from these deposits can cost as much as $5,000 or $10,000. But as the gold price increases, some of these deposits will become profitable to mine.

Do recall, everyone, that gold is different in one very fundamental way than every other commodity: that the stock:flow ration is far higher than them all. There are some 175,000 tonnes of gold above ground, and some 3,300 tonnes mined (plus some recycled IIRC). No other commodity comes close to that much stock to flow.

This means that mines shutting down (etc.) do not influence gold price much in the short-term.

It is demand that will change the price of gold, and big time. And the Big Enchilada will be when paper gold fails (when people want physical for their paper). There are about 100 paper claims on gold vs. 1 oz physical. What happens when the demand starts big (a worldwide currency crisis for example), and "paper gold" owners cannot get the physical they think they "own"?

Those paper claims on gold are cash-settled futures (and the likes), so their owners neither can claim nor actually have any desire to own physical gold...

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: OROBTC on August 30, 2015, 11:13:45 PM

It is demand that will change the price of gold, and big time. And the Big Enchilada will be when paper gold fails (when people want physical for their paper). There are about 100 paper claims on gold vs. 1 oz physical. What happens when the demand starts big (a worldwide currency crisis for example), and "paper gold" owners cannot get the physical they think they "own"?

Very high prices. Think $10,000 (non-inflated price).

I dont think gold price will fall when people will realize that certificates are ponzi scams.

Its the certificate price that will fall to 0, but then the pressure will be uplifted from the physical price in the sense that, with printed fraudulent certificates they cannot surpress the price anymore.

Then the gold price will rise to all time highs.

However i dont think it will stay high very much, its just a speculative commodity for me, it will collapse quickly rightafter.

OROBTC

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 30, 2015, 07:37:55 AM

Quote from: Snorek on August 30, 2015, 06:48:56 AM

And what will happen when gold deposits run dry? I am sure that there are some places on earth with unknown gold deposits, we just need to find them. But my question is will price of gold suddenly skyrocket if gold will be so hard to get? it surely looks that way. It will like 'ultra halving' using bitcoin terminology.

It is extremely unlikely that such hidden gold deposits will be discovered any time in the near future. Gold occurs in certain unique geological formations, and almost all of these formations have been undergoing metal extraction through mining. There are "unrecoverable gold deposits", where recovering gold is not economical. Mining one oz. of gold from these deposits can cost as much as $5,000 or $10,000. But as the gold price increases, some of these deposits will become profitable to mine.

Do recall, everyone, that gold is different in one very fundamental way than every other commodity: that the stock:flow ration is far higher than them all. There are some 175,000 tonnes of gold above ground, and some 3,300 tonnes mined (plus some recycled IIRC). No other commodity comes close to that much stock to flow.

This means that mines shutting down (etc.) do not influence gold price much in the short-term.

It is demand that will change the price of gold, and big time. And the Big Enchilada will be when paper gold fails (when people want physical for their paper). There are about 100 paper claims on gold vs. 1 oz physical. What happens when the demand starts big (a worldwide currency crisis for example), and "paper gold" owners cannot get the physical they think they "own"?

Very high prices. Think $10,000 (non-inflated price).

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: Snorek on August 30, 2015, 06:48:56 AM

And what will happen when gold deposits run dry? I am sure that there are some places on earth with unknown gold deposits, we just need to find them. But my question is will price of gold suddenly skyrocket if gold will be so hard to get? it surely looks that way. It will like 'ultra halving' using bitcoin terminology.

It is extremely unlikely that such hidden gold deposits will be discovered any time in the near future. Gold occurs in certain unique geological formations, and almost all of these formations have been undergoing metal extraction through mining. There are "unrecoverable gold deposits", where recovering gold is not economical. Mining one oz. of gold from these deposits can cost as much as $5,000 or $10,000. But as the gold price increases, some of these deposits will become profitable to mine.

deisik

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Quote from: markj113 on August 30, 2015, 06:31:16 AM

Quote from: deisik on August 30, 2015, 06:27:04 AM

Quote from: markj113 on August 30, 2015, 06:05:01 AM

Only a matter of time until we see a disconnect between "paper gold" prices and real physical gold prices. I think a lot of people are going to be in for a shock when they realise they paper gold claim has been leveraged 125:1

I've heard such stories from gold bugs for more than 10 years already. This won't happen

It is already starting to happen on a small scale as premiums are increasing to offset drops in spot price -

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-29/despite-being-pet-rock-premium-physical-bullion-exploding

I can point you to a site which claims something to that tune (e.g. "This Shocking Event Will Change The Gold Market Forever") or even more disastrous day after day. Here it is. In short, believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see...

And especially beware of the half-truth. You may have gotten the wrong half

Snorek

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on August 29, 2015, 03:19:46 PM

The price of gold can't be suppressed for too long. It is estimated that only some 60,000 tonnes of extractable gold remains to be mined out, and at the same time, the demand is increasing very sharply year on year. The current rate of extraction (3,300 tonnes per year) is definitely not sustainable, and in 10 years or so, there will not be enough supplies to cover the demand.

And what will happen when gold deposits run dry? I am sure that there are some places on earth with unknown gold deposits, we just need to find them.
But my question is will price of gold suddenly skyrocket if gold will be so hard to get? it surely looks that way. It will like 'ultra halving' using bitcoin terminology.

markj113

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Quote from: deisik on August 30, 2015, 06:27:04 AM

Quote from: markj113 on August 30, 2015, 06:05:01 AM

Only a matter of time until we see a disconnect between "paper gold" prices and real physical gold prices. I think a lot of people are going to be in for a shock when they realise they paper gold claim has been leveraged 125:1

I've heard such stories from gold bugs for more than 10 years already. This won't happen

It is already starting to happen on a small scale as premiums are increasing to offset drops in spot price -

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-08-29/despite-being-pet-rock-premium-physical-bullion-exploding

We are all very small cogs in the big machine and have no influence on how it all plays out.

All we can do is try our best to cover our asses for when it does all go tits up.

Diversification be that gold, silver, bitcoin, land etc. will help and not keeping all your wealth as cash in the bank waiting for a "bail in" as Cyprus and soon Greece has shown.

deisik

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Quote from: markj113 on August 30, 2015, 06:05:01 AM

If people are led to believe the price of gold is on a downward trend they are less likely to pull their cash from more risky investments.

The house of cards will fall sooner rather than later and the price of gold will go "to the moon" overnight.

I think it has also been proved beyond reasonable doubt that the price of gold is suppressed through paper games, the price smack down when gold price starts to take off through the dumping of millions of dollars worth of paper gold is becoming laughable.

Furthermore, I don't say that the price of gold is not manipulated, but it is not manipulated somehow different or to a significantly higher degree that any other commodity which has a huge financial derivatives market (oil being the most conspicuous example as of recent)...

Quote from: markj113 on August 30, 2015, 06:05:01 AM

Only a matter of time until we see a disconnect between "paper gold" prices and real physical gold prices. I think a lot of people are going to be in for a shock when they realise they paper gold claim has been leveraged 125:1

I've heard such stories from gold bugs for more than 10 years already. This won't happen

deisik

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Quote from: markj113 on August 30, 2015, 06:16:45 AM

Except now we face the demise of the USD so where do they run for safety now?

I guess the rumors of the US dollar death are greatly exaggerated. Not that it is invincible or immortal per se (or anything of the kind), but in fact it should not be. It is enough that it should be less vulnerable and more strong than other currencies...

Just being stronger than others does wonders

markj113

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Except now we face the demise of the USD so where do they run for safety now?

I would argue about gold been liquid, I think you have to be very rich man to struggle to sell your entire worth in gold in one go.

Topic: The Real Story of Gold - page 4. (Read 6710 times)