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Topic: ✨✨✨ The Reason We Use Money ✨✨✨ (Read 290 times)

newbie
Activity: 9
Merit: 0
January 11, 2018, 03:50:29 PM
#29
Money is still the mainstream currency in the world which is why it is vital. Cryptocurrency is on the rise but at the moment its power stays online.
hero member
Activity: 966
Merit: 535
December 22, 2017, 05:12:48 PM
#28
Omfg you really are clueless aren't you? This reminds me of the same people who say buying high powered sports cars is a waste because you could have fed so many families with that money. Lol wow. Did you ever think of all the jobs Bitcoin mining has created? Mining machines are made from resources which cones from factories where people work and see employed so they can feed there family making tin and other metaos needed for mining rigs. Then we have the software Devs who make money designing how the mining rigs work. Then we get the miners themselves the people who out the rigs together, the Courier when we spoke paid to deliver it. 

How is creating jobs a waste of resources? He eose do you think transactions will be processed? Do you think you'll ur bank hasn't got their own servers that use electricity too? Or do you think banks are magical things that have transactions handled by floating pixies. It is all relative.
full member
Activity: 266
Merit: 100
Partner of UBER GRAB GOCAR
December 22, 2017, 03:05:18 PM
#27
The reason we need money is to have a medium to exchange goods and services for each other. Money is the way we divide the world's resources.

What is money?
Money is a FUTURE claim on services or goods. It represents an amount of goods one is entitled to collect on


Now lets think about how this differs from crypto currency

The reason we need crypto is to exchange goods and services for each other using a digital medium and to provide it in a decentralized but secure way.


What is crypto?
Crytpo is a PAST claim on services or goods. It represents an amount of goods or services that one has already used



Here is what I mean by the difference between a future and a past claim on goods or services. Money is a future claim on the world's resources (including labor and services). You can use that money at a future point to collect in on what you are 'owed'. This differs dramatically from crypto. Crypto is actually a past claim on services or goods, because it cannot be earned without destroying resources. The value of crypto comes from the fact that electricity, man hours, and hardware are destroyed in order to create. We are essentially destroying resources in order to make a medium that will allow us to divide the rest of the resources up. Instead we should be earning currency based on the good things we do and the resources we protect. We should be incentivized to save the world, not destroy it.

I think the process of adopting crypto is too much of a sacrifice when it comes to resources. The very things we are trying to divide up we are destroying. We arguably need money to divide the resources, but we don't need to destroy resources just to make the money
Well, you do have a point and you did type all that stuff...Bitcoin is mainly a barter system that can be a little bit more reliable to use compared to most things out there when trying to pay for something online.
hero member
Activity: 1792
Merit: 534
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
December 15, 2017, 02:58:22 PM
#26
This is basically like:

What came first the chicken or the egg?
That question is philosophical.  People can give detailed explanations of their views on it, but they can't offer an objective answer that covers all possible scenarios.

In this case though, it's not at all subjective.  You are using the relativist fallacy to suggest that your view is somehow equally valid, but it's not - it is simply one person who is aware of at least the most basic information about how Bitcoin works (me) and one person who is not aware (you).

The code is open source.  If you really doubt me or nullius, please read.
copper member
Activity: 630
Merit: 2614
If you don’t do PGP, you don’t do crypto!
December 15, 2017, 01:58:09 PM
#25
If demand was growing but not causing computations to get harder, fees would stay lower, and prices of bitcoin would stay lower since miners wouldn't need to recoup as much electricity losses

If demand was growing and causing the computations to get harder, fees will be higher, and prices of bitcoin will rise because miners will need more money to cover their electricity losses.

Incorrect.  The calculation of fees has nothing whatsoever to do with the mining difficulty (the latter of which I previously explained to you).

Imagine by analogy that there were literally a single old-fashioned paper ledger to record the financial transactions of everybody in the whole world.  The ledger has pages.  Obviously, each page has limited space for writing.  People with specialized equipment called “miners” choose the transactions to put on each page, then seal the page with a magical security stamp which makes the page impossible to change for all eternity.  Miners get paid for this service, because the magical stamp is difficult and costly to produce.  Moreover, there is a rule:  One new page is sealed every ten minutes, whether it is empty or full; and new pages can’t be filled any faster than one per ten minutes.  This rule is a property of the magical stamp which keeps everything secure.

If too many people want their transactions included in the book, then each person needs to compete with everybody else by offering the miners more money to include their transaction instead of somebody else’s.

Fees are based on simple supply and demand.  There is a certain amount of space in each block, constrained by the block weight limit as defined by BIP 141; that is a common resource, shared by everybody who uses Bitcoin.  Blocks are produced at a rate of one block every ten minutes (on average; I am intentionally oversimplifying).  Each transaction has a certain weight, based principally on its size in bytes and whether it uses Segwit.  Those weights all add up.  When there are too many transactions with too much total weight for them to all fit into a block, then people need to compete with each other on fees to entice miners to select their transactions instead of somebody else’s.

By the way, Bitcoin users can get a 75% instant discount on fees by using Segwit addresses.  Check your wallet’s documentation.  Now, see my signature; look at my address, and the adjacent note about Segwit.  If your address starts with a “1”, then you are overpaying 4× on fees!  Those who still use addresses starting with a “1” are consuming 4× the aforementioned shared resource; so it is only natural and fair, they wind up paying 4× the fees.  They should either upgrade, or shut up and quit whining about fees.
member
Activity: 90
Merit: 11
December 15, 2017, 01:53:58 PM
#24
Quote
Long term digital currencies will be better for the environment than physical currencies, in time we will have sustainable energy sources and the electricity usage won't matter

Agree. Several people including myself have pointed out over and over that fiat is also a waste of resources. However, crypto is not replacing that problem, it is making it DRAMATICALLY worse. In fact crypto is now 27 times more expensive than fiat to produce. And by the year 2020 crypto mining will have consumed as much electricity as the entire planet if it continues on the same path.

Of course fiat is a waste of resources. That is why we need to make a digital currency that SAVES resources. Bitcoin destroys resources


Well that's where we disagree, bitcoin is not the problem necessarily in itself, the problem is the lack of sustainable energy, if that problem is solved then suddenly bitcoin is the most environmentally friendly option by a mile. Other coins in time will move to better methods, like ETH moving to POS.
hero member
Activity: 2324
Merit: 562
DGbet.fun - Crypto Sportsbook
December 15, 2017, 12:03:32 PM
#23
Personally I hate money cuz it causes a lot of problems. I wish it was like hundreds years ago when people just exchanged things that they needed. It was called barter. it can eliminate the financial stratification between people. It could be the victory over poverty.
You are right, Money somtimes make you some problems with you family or even in your personal life. You wish about exchanging things at the place of money, it's impossible as i think, because now with this new technology and developpment of the world, people need money to circulate their lifes.

Yes.If you supposed to loss your money in trading in any altcoin means, I am sure it will disturb your mind and reflect in your real life. This all cause is money.Money will be reason for your joy and happiness. So avoid of lose your money and it will make you to live a peaceful life.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
December 15, 2017, 11:49:21 AM
#22
This is basically like:

What came first the chicken or the egg?



If demand was growing but not causing computations to get harder, fees would stay lower, and prices of bitcoin would stay lower since miners wouldn't need to recoup as much electricity losses

If demand was growing and causing the computations to get harder, fees will be higher, and prices of bitcoin will rise because miners will need more money to cover their electricity losses.



Clearly the increase of fees (aka wasting of resources) is impacting Bitcoin's price.
full member
Activity: 532
Merit: 132
December 14, 2017, 05:22:12 PM
#21
Personally I hate money cuz it causes a lot of problems. I wish it was like hundreds years ago when people just exchanged things that they needed. It was called barter. it can eliminate the financial stratification between people. It could be the victory over poverty.
You are right, Money somtimes make you some problems with you family or even in your personal life. You wish about exchanging things at the place of money, it's impossible as i think, because now with this new technology and developpment of the world, people need money to circulate their lifes.
hero member
Activity: 1792
Merit: 534
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
December 14, 2017, 05:14:56 PM
#20
every source you read will say that bitcoin mining costs are going up.
That's correct.  The price of BTC increased and the Bitcoin fees increased, so the value of the block reward + the transaction fees (what miners receive when they mine a block) increased.

Because of this, more miners piled in to join the "lottery" and try to mine a block.  At the next difficulty adjustment (a difficulty adjustment occurs every 2016 blocks), how difficult it is to mine a block is altered in order to ensure that a block is still mined approximately every 10 minutes.

The mining costs are going up because the price is going up.  Correlation != causation.
I actually didn't see a single piece of evidence that shows bitcoin prices and mining costs aren't correlated.
Exactly.  They are correlated because if the Bitcoin price increases, the reward for miners in fiat terms when mining a block increases.  Not the other way around.
You would actually have to use quantitative modeling to prove it and not just spitting out bullshit.
Nope, you'd have to read about how Bitcoin works.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1360
Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody
December 14, 2017, 04:20:10 PM
#19

And it has worked wonders...
Have you checked the altcoin section now? I can't even read the titles correctly nowadays.
Making the thread visible will just make the others doing the same and in the end we won't be able to distinguish words from rainbow eating bears and dancing unicorns ....
And there will be, trust me Smiley


You might be right he could come here from the altcoin section. Those shitcoins are going down, time to troll the shit out of those stupid BTC holders who think they know better! Cheesy

Actually for the first time he might be close to reality. Of course a twisted reality but still
He probably followed the info on this:
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html
90% of all addresses have a balance lower than 0.1
Of course addresses/wallets/persons are different things but in the end there could only be at maximum 210 million people holding 0.1
Even if we include satoshi's coins and other that still means 3% of the population.

Not really. The difference between him saying that 90% of bitcoin holders have less than 0.1BTC each and referring the same to the population.
First of all the exact number of Bitcoin holders isn't known, and since one person can have thousands of addresses there's no data to hold on to. He's trying his best to build a whole theory an a made up fact and he knows it.

Perhaps I have explained the fees slightly wrong. But every source you read will say that bitcoin mining costs are going up.


So is the value of BTC. A completely normal thing in economy. If the bread cost $1 to make and is being sold by $2 and suddenly somebody pays you $10 for it it's natural that more people will want to make bread and the competition will increase making the resources (flour) more wanted and valuable, thus increasing their prices.

Haha I love how you tried to say one of my claims was baseless. And someone on your own FUD team instantly proved you wrong, LOL
Where did that happen? My team? I have made 1 post in this thread and I don't have a team, although if any of you guys want to cheer for me I'll be happy to oblige  Roll Eyes

Btw, could you at least point the person you're referring to. So many people have disagreed with you in this thread that it's getting hard to see who the target of the rebuttal is.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 672
Top Crypto Casino
December 14, 2017, 04:09:34 PM
#18
I completely disagree with you. Crypto isn't doing any damage to resources but yeah making our future better by giving us a safe environment to buy goods without get worried of anything. The thing that is destroying the environment isn't mining of crypto but usage of fuels and electricity itself.
Bitcoin or any other crypto currency and their mining rigs aren't that harmful for destroying anything because there are many more destructive things that we use in our everyday life that are destroying the resources and polluting the environment.
There are many machines that are getting damaged because of electricity and if you concern is correct then why aren't you opposing them instead of miners?
Look man it's simple, just be cool and allow something new to happen in the world and your own life.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
December 14, 2017, 03:41:54 PM
#17
Quote
Long term digital currencies will be better for the environment than physical currencies, in time we will have sustainable energy sources and the electricity usage won't matter

Agree. Several people including myself have pointed out over and over that fiat is also a waste of resources. However, crypto is not replacing that problem, it is making it DRAMATICALLY worse. In fact crypto is now 27 times more expensive than fiat to produce. And by the year 2020 crypto mining will have consumed as much electricity as the entire planet if it continues on the same path.

Of course fiat is a waste of resources. That is why we need to make a digital currency that SAVES resources. Bitcoin destroys resources
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
December 14, 2017, 03:29:54 PM
#16
The reason we need money is to have a medium to exchange goods and services for each other. Money is the way we divide the world's resources.

What is money?
Money is a FUTURE claim on services or goods. It represents an amount of goods one is entitled to collect on


Now lets think about how this differs from crypto currency

The reason we need crypto is to exchange goods and services for each other using a digital medium and to provide it in a decentralized but secure way.


What is crypto?
Crytpo is a PAST claim on services or goods. It represents an amount of goods or services that one has already used



Here is what I mean by the difference between a future and a past claim on goods or services. Money is a future claim on the world's resources (including labor and services). You can use that money at a future point to collect in on what you are 'owed'. This differs dramatically from crypto. Crypto is actually a past claim on services or goods, because it cannot be earned without destroying resources. The value of crypto comes from the fact that electricity, man hours, and hardware are destroyed in order to create. We are essentially destroying resources in order to make a medium that will allow us to divide the rest of the resources up. Instead we should be earning currency based on the good things we do and the resources we protect. We should be incentivized to save the world, not destroy it.

I think the process of adopting crypto is too much of a sacrifice when it comes to resources. The very things we are trying to divide up we are destroying. We arguably need money to divide the resources, but we don't need to destroy resources just to make the money

This is perhaps more of a philosophical approach, but personally i think Money means different things to different people.

Somebody living in a poor part of the world struggling for basics will probably see Money as nothing more than a means of survival.

For me, its more a store of value, a asset and then a medium of exchange.

What you said about electricity and hardware being used to produce Digital Money like Bitcoin may be true to a extent, but then the same can be said for Paper Money - we as a species probably
destroy millions of acres of trees and forests to produce the paper needed to then produce our valuable paper money. Also we "destroy" or "consume" millions of tons of concrete, wood, metal and other
commodities to produce Wealth in the form of a House - the Houses we build become a asset and a store of value, and we can exchange them for cash/goods/services...coming back to the point that we
consume alot of things to produce a single House but that doesnt mean its not beneficial, it actually has many benefits.

Same thing with digital money. The speed, the transparency, the ease with which we can send/receive digital money makes it more efficient than carrying around stacks of paper money.

I also dont think Bitcoin only represents a past claim on goods/services.... if that was the case i would not be able to buy things with it now.

Even my Car - which cost alot more than a Bitcoin to be produced in electricity, hardware, and man-hours, is not a past source of value, because i can sell it and exchange it for other forms of wealth.

If you argue Digital Money is a depreciating source of wealth like my Car or Laptop - again i would beg to differ because it will continue to have value so long as people give it value - and thats basically what money is.

Also if your main objection to Bitcoin and Digital Money is the cost of production (electricity, hardware) then i think you should look into Alt-coins - some of which are produced/generated in radically different ways that
does not involve 'mining' at all.
member
Activity: 90
Merit: 11
December 14, 2017, 03:22:30 PM
#15
The reason we need money is to have a medium to exchange goods and services for each other. Money is the way we divide the world's resources.

What is money?
Money is a FUTURE claim on services or goods. It represents an amount of goods one is entitled to collect on


Now lets think about how this differs from crypto currency

The reason we need crypto is to exchange goods and services for each other using a digital medium and to provide it in a decentralized but secure way.


What is crypto?
Crytpo is a PAST claim on services or goods. It represents an amount of goods or services that one has already used



Here is what I mean by the difference between a future and a past claim on goods or services. Money is a future claim on the world's resources (including labor and services). You can use that money at a future point to collect in on what you are 'owed'. This differs dramatically from crypto. Crypto is actually a past claim on services or goods, because it cannot be earned without destroying resources. The value of crypto comes from the fact that electricity, man hours, and hardware are destroyed in order to create. We are essentially destroying resources in order to make a medium that will allow us to divide the rest of the resources up. Instead we should be earning currency based on the good things we do and the resources we protect. We should be incentivized to save the world, not destroy it.

I think the process of adopting crypto is too much of a sacrifice when it comes to resources. The very things we are trying to divide up we are destroying. We arguably need money to divide the resources, but we don't need to destroy resources just to make the money

Not like we cut down millions of trees to make paper money or mine precious ores to make coins? Long term digital currencies will be better for the environment than physical currencies, in time we will have sustainable energy sources and the electricity usage won't matter. As for if any of this makes them a money or not, no it doesn't, I have no idea what point you were trying to make with that.
newbie
Activity: 14
Merit: 0
December 14, 2017, 03:16:25 PM
#14
Can yall stop spamming the boards? Haha

I love how you all come in and repeat the EXACT same thing like it isn't spam. Also there is a rule that all replies must be related to the original title, so how about you all learn to follow the damn rules before pointing fingers at others. If you have an issue use the report button. You don't need to repeat yourselves over and over about how bitcoin bears are awful and should be banned from the forum. Theres bulls and bears in every market. Get over it.

Perhaps I have explained the fees slightly wrong. But every source you read will say that bitcoin mining costs are going up.

So really all your points are moot. I actually didn't see a single piece of evidence that shows bitcoin prices and mining costs aren't correlated. There can be other variables at play and not a 100% correlation. You would actually have to use quantitative modeling to prove it and not just spitting out bullshit.

If you aren't interested in discussing the reason we use money...

Simple SOLUTION! Stop bumping the thread and reading it LOL! That's not block chain science, that's common sense


Quote
P.S. Are you borrowing this from somewhere or making it up yourself because those claims are baseless.

Haha I love how you tried to say one of my claims was baseless. And someone on your own FUD team instantly proved you wrong, LOL
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
December 14, 2017, 03:14:50 PM
#13
Wrong.Wrong, a thousand times wrong.

But first, stop creating topics with these titles. Those are annoying as hell and I will start reporting them.

He's doing his best to make the thread visible. People in the services section have been doing it for years. Or he just likes the bling Grin

And it has worked wonders...
Have you checked the altcoin section now? I can't even read the titles correctly nowadays.
Making the thread visible will just make the others doing the same and in the end we won't be able to distinguish words from rainbow eating bears and dancing unicorns ....
And there will be, trust me Smiley

90% of all bitcoin owners have less than 0.1 BTC each


How did you come up with that? Did you make the research asking a test group of 1000 bitcoiners about their holdings or did a fairy whisper it to you?

Actually for the first time he might be close to reality. Of course a twisted reality but still
He probably followed the info on this:
https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html
90% of all addresses have a balance lower than 0.1
Of course addresses/wallets/persons are different things but in the end there could only be at maximum 210 million people holding 0.1
Even if we include satoshi's coins and other that still means 3% of the population.

sr. member
Activity: 1036
Merit: 275
December 14, 2017, 03:02:33 PM
#12
But you are not even reading what this piece if trash in form of user called "shortcoins" is posting

Why are you posting this? he is not even asking this thing, he is just talking crap about bitcoin and everything about cryptocurrencies.

I understand that you hate money and bla bla bla.

Personally I hate money cuz it causes a lot of problems. I wish it was like hundreds years ago when people just exchanged things that they needed. It was called barter. it can eliminate the financial stratification

and ShortCoins, you should know that no one is going to stop using cryptos because you say that they are wrong.

You should be banned, or tagged, because the only thing that you post in here is crap, and no one pays attention to your posts.

Only the account farmers like the one i quoted are posting here seriously.
full member
Activity: 279
Merit: 132
Beefcake!!!
December 14, 2017, 02:58:12 PM
#11
All the philosophical stuff is nice to think about, but at the end of the day only one thing really matters.  When I go to exchange my bitcoins for something, be it dollars or something else, what do I get in return?  Right now I get a large pile of cash.  Maybe that will change tomorrow but right now I am happy to say that bitcoin represents a nice storage of wealth in the present time.  What it means for the past or future, I will leave that up to the university types to write papers about.  Let them argue the finer points among themselves and twist up a simple thing with convoluted logic.
legendary
Activity: 2478
Merit: 1360
Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody
December 14, 2017, 02:51:19 PM
#10
The value of crypto comes from the fact that electricity, man hours, and hardware are destroyed in order to create. We are essentially destroying resources in order to make a medium that will allow us to divide the rest of the resources up. Instead we should be earning currency based on the good things we do and the resources we protect. We should be incentivized to save the world, not destroy it.

I think the process of adopting crypto is too much of a sacrifice when it comes to resources.

I guess you haven't heard about POS coins Wink

Wrong.Wrong, a thousand times wrong.

But first, stop creating topics with these titles. Those are annoying as hell and I will start reporting them.

He's doing his best to make the thread visible. People in the services section have been doing it for years. Or he just likes the bling Grin

Folks, please read this before you buy into this junk, or even bother arguing about it.  ShortCoins is a spammer on a prolific FUD binge.

ShortCoins didn’t even bother to respond when I replied to the exact same text he posted on another thread:

Isn't reposting the same stuff in different sections spamming?

P.S. Are you borrowing this from somewhere or making it up yourself because those claims are baseless. Not only this one but the ones in your other threads as well.
like this thing:
90% of all bitcoin owners have less than 0.1 BTC each


How did you come up with that? Did you make the research asking a test group of 1000 bitcoiners about their holdings or did a fairy whisper it to you?
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