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Topic: The Royal Canadian Mint just announced a new alternative to BitCoin - page 11. (Read 19978 times)

donator
Activity: 296
Merit: 250
Great opportunity for P2P-exchange between Bitcoin and MintChip.
Bye-bye Gox and last Bitcoin weakness.
This is really exciting times.

Nothing exciting nor threatening to bitcoin ... governments printing (sorry... electronically issuing) fiat. NO thank you. I saw how it ends Wink Backed by the Royal Canadian Mint? How is this going to be "Private"? Governments desperate to seize control of at least a portion of the electronic currency revolution.

Bitcoin and the exchanging ecosystem might need to mature, but I'll rather stick with it.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
@guruvan - my reply there was actually to Dan The Man Smiley
I concur with Guruvan. Remember that with a system built around bitcoin that doesn't use mining, you can only inject coins at the genesis block. Having a method for later injection from a trusted source is asking for hacking. The way the backing would work with newbitcoin wouldn't be that you set aside a backing for all the Newbitcoin you produce. That could leave you with a big pile of shit really fast. Instead, you would produce way more Newbitcoin than you will ever use or need. And you set aside the backing currency when those newbitcoins go into circulation. So you as the central authority, have an open contract to buy and sell newbitcoin at 1:1 for Canadian dollars. Since you start with a monopoly on all of the newbitcoin in existence it is an easy contract to keep.
legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1570
Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending
This is a clear sign that Bitcoin is ahead of it's time and we should be stressing this point (and pointing out the clear difference that MintChip still requires trust in a government).

Just came back in from one of my warehouses and was going to post a similar sentiment. Embrace MintChip by using it as a marketing tool when bringing awareness to Bitcoin. When approaching potential converts, point out the fact that Canada is embracing the Bitcoin model. See what I did there?

~Bruno~
sr. member
Activity: 300
Merit: 250
BitcoinStarter.com Support Account
Great opportunity for P2P-exchange between Bitcoin and MintChip.
Bye-bye Gox and last Bitcoin weakness.
This is really exciting times.

Actually its more of direct threat to Mt. Cocks then it is to Bitcoin.
sr. member
Activity: 423
Merit: 250
Great opportunity for P2P-exchange between Bitcoin and MintChip.
Bye-bye Gox and last Bitcoin weakness.
This is really exciting times.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
.....They basically lead you to believe that there is no central authority, but all these rules are made and governed by the Canadian Mint, so they are above the law and can do what they want.

that's sure how i read it.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1000
Charlie 'Van Bitcoin' Shrem
Double Spending Issue:

MintChip Value

On receiving the value request message, the Sender's MintChip creates the value message that represents a monetary value in transition. The value message contains the requested monetary amount and can only be consumed by the Receiver's MintChip identified by its unique ID. The value message is digitally signed to protect against any tampering. Once the value message is created by the Sender's MintChip, the MintChip's balance is decreased by the corresponding value. This transaction is irrevocable. The Sender cannot stop or cancel the transaction after the value message has been created. On receiving the value message, the Receiver's MintChip verifies the validity of the message using the digital signature and the Sender's public certificate embedded in the message. It also verifies that the value message is not a duplicate using the challenge value. If the value message is valid, the Receiver's MintChip balance gets incremented by the amount specified in the value message.

http://developer.mintchipchallenge.com/devguide/transactions.html

.....They basically lead you to believe that there is no central authority, but all these rules are made and governed by the Canadian Mint, so they are above the law and can do what they want.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
lol. Sounded like I would have said it too.  Roll Eyes Grin
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
@guruvan - my reply there was actually to Dan The Man Smiley
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500

i say we make it possible to buy bitcoin with mint chip, and submit that as our proofs of concept utilizing MintChip!


absolutely.  Show how MintChip is limited and it can be converted easily to something that is unlimited. 
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
Yes, a hard backed Bitcoin alternative could be set up quite easily. But then the government couldn't inflate the currency. What incentive would a government have to do it? The goodness of their heart?

Sure they could. Remember that the government controls and keeps a huge portion of the digital currency in reserve. The reserve could theoretically be larger than the entire amount of real backing currency in existence. And they still control the backing currency. Inflate that and you inflate the digitally overlaid currency too. Or they could separate the backing whenever they wish and sell off their entire reserve of digital currency while refusing to buy any of it back.

Of course they could inflate the currency - they can change the software/protocol any time and require everyone to update.

No they can't really, at least not the way I described it. The underlying network is still bitcoin and there is no way to force people to update their client short of passing a law.

When you say "real backing currency" you are talking about reserved gold or silver, as that's what hard backing means, right? So they would keep a larger amount of digital currency in reserve than the gold/silver they used as backing? I'm pretty sure the public would want to verify they had the amount of precious metal they claimed.

What do you mean inflate the backing currency? You can't inflate gold or silver.

I gave some current examples - EUR, GBP, USD, CAD, JPY. They are listed on the diagram in the link I posted.

I specifically doubt that this MintChip will use XAU or XAG (gold and silver) as currencies. They are not on the list.

I did not mean "real" as in "hard commodity" I meant "real" as in "accepted government backed currency" - I meant "real from the perspective of the Royal Canadian Mint - not my own perspective. Sorry for the confusion. Poor word choice.
member
Activity: 99
Merit: 10
Quote

i say we make it possible to buy bitcoin with mint chip, and submit that as our proofs of concept utilizing MintChip!

Owned   Cool

This ^^ lol
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1037
Trusted Bitcoiner
Quote
The Challenge

The Royal Canadian MintChip Challenge invites software developers to create innovative digital payment applications using MintChip, a...Winners will receive approximately $50,000 in gold bullion from the Mint as well as promotional exposure....blablabla

Challenge Goals:

    Create software applications and proofs of concept utilizing MintChip
    Highlight potential advantages of the technology and digital currency

i say we make it possible to buy bitcoin with mint chip, and submit that as our proofs of concept utilizing MintChip!

Owned   Cool

the future is going to be filled with "new money systems" i think bitcoin should be prepared to embrace all these systems, and hope we come out as the Gold standard of digital money   
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
Yes, a hard backed Bitcoin alternative could be set up quite easily. But then the government couldn't inflate the currency. What incentive would a government have to do it? The goodness of their heart?

Sure they could. Remember that the government controls and keeps a huge portion of the digital currency in reserve. The reserve could theoretically be larger than the entire amount of real backing currency in existence. And they still control the backing currency. Inflate that and you inflate the digitally overlaid currency too. Or they could separate the backing whenever they wish and sell off their entire reserve of digital currency while refusing to buy any of it back.

Of course they could inflate the currency - they can change the software/protocol any time and require everyone to update.

No they can't really, at least not the way I described it. The underlying network is still bitcoin and there is no way to force people to update their client short of passing a law.

When you say "real backing currency" you are talking about reserved gold or silver, as that's what hard backing means, right? So they would keep a larger amount of digital currency in reserve than the gold/silver they used as backing? I'm pretty sure the public would want to verify they had the amount of precious metal they claimed.

What do you mean inflate the backing currency? You can't inflate gold or silver.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
hmm. this makes it appear that MintChip just make a way to use regular currency digitally, rather than creating a new currency.

http://developer.mintchipchallenge.com/api/java/ca/mint/mintchip/contract/package-frame.html

Quote
The main interface of the API is the IMintChip. It is responsible for supporting the following MintChip functionality:

-Processing credit transactions by loading the Value Messages and incrementing the chip's balance.
-Processing debit transactions by creating the Value Messages and decrementing the chip's balance.
-Reading the transaction log and returning a collection of debit or credit transaction records.
-Providing the chip's status, which consists of the data that may change over the chip's life time: the balance, the maximum allowed debit and credit amounts, current and remaining numbers of the transaction records.
-Providing the chip's properties, which consist of the data that never changes since chip's initialization: the ID, the currency code, the public certificate and the chip version.
-The rest of the interfaces and classes depicted in the above UML diagram are designed to work with the IMintChip interface in support of the above listed functions.

The chip appears to "enhance privacy" by making your private transactions recorded by the RCM. It appears to conduct transactions in standard reserve currencies (EUR,JPY,USD.GBP, etc)

It makes it appear to the parties in the transaction that it's private, while likely allowing the RCM and possibly others to dig up the entire transaction history.

Can U say "big brother money chip?" - I knew that you could.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
Yes, a hard backed Bitcoin alternative could be set up quite easily. But then the government couldn't inflate the currency. What incentive would a government have to do it? The goodness of their heart?

Of course they could inflate the currency - they can change the software/protocol any time and require everyone to update.

As soon as they announced this required update you can bet everyone would be running to exchange the currency for its backing.
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1002
Since the security is in the hardware device, I'm sure there will be a limit on the value of each transaction. Also, expect every coin to keep a full history of the bank account it was originally created from, the devices it traveled to in the meantime, and the bank account it was later deposited to.

This means that unlike Bitcoin, if you ever funded your MintChip from you bank account, all your operations on that device will become trackable by the central bank. It's not clear as of yet if one will be able to purchase MintChips anonymously, or there would be some kind of forced "activation" where the devices is tied to your bank account, thus obliterating any trace of privacy. I'll put my money on the later.

I'd put my money on the latter too.

However, their site says "all the benefits of cash ... instant private secure". I'd imagine that means anonymous too, but I guess we have to wait and see.
hero member
Activity: 672
Merit: 500
Yes, a hard backed Bitcoin alternative could be set up quite easily. But then the government couldn't inflate the currency. What incentive would a government have to do it? The goodness of their heart?

Sure they could. Remember that the government controls and keeps a huge portion of the digital currency in reserve. The reserve could theoretically be larger than the entire amount of real backing currency in existence. And they still control the backing currency. Inflate that and you inflate the digitally overlaid currency too. Or they could separate the backing whenever they wish and sell off their entire reserve of digital currency while refusing to buy any of it back.

Of course they could inflate the currency - they can change the software/protocol any time and require everyone to update.

No they can't really, at least not the way I described it. The underlying network is still bitcoin and there is no way to force people to update their client short of passing a law.
hero member
Activity: 484
Merit: 500
Just validates Bitcoin as a technology game changer. Also, validates its legal.
legendary
Activity: 1304
Merit: 1015
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