Topic: The Supply of Bitcoin Is Limited. The Supply of Cryptos Isn't! - page 6. (Read 2163 times)

I don't think we are anywhere near the level of development where one can really consider strip mining asteroids, etc. By the time that's viable, it would probably be a post-scarcity economy anyway.

Do not get me wrong I know they are bought, I was just pointing out the direction they want to go, and we may show to them that has never existed and that is not going to work but those people always think they know better, in my opinion there are only 5 scenarios possible

In the first scenario, there is no reserve currency and each country tries to hold the currencies of other countries similar to what China and Russia are already doing, in the second scenario a basket of currencies is created and a new world currency is created, neither of these scenarios are going to work.

The third scenario is the one you presented in your first post, the fourth is going back to gold and silver and while you believe more in this scenario what it is going to happen when we get access to the technology to explore the space and get as much silver and gold as we want? I think humans will have at some point to create their own scarcity somehow and bitcoin show to us how we can do it.

And the fifth scenario is chaos, which is terrible but I will not discard it.

I think they will not just print out a lot of dollars since it will damage the economy and other than that if they think of controlling the market thru that then they are not alone since others would want that also like China (and also big businessmen out there who also want to invest) hence no once can control the marlet since it is well distributed worldwide int he current time and even more in the future which would not be possible for them anymore. In the case of another cryptocurrency other than Bitcoin then that might be possible.

Yes bitcoin supply is limited that's the reason why the value keeps fluctuating because the price depends on the demand of bitcoin in the market. Cryptos somehow is also limited because developees cannot creates unlimited cryptos there is always a limitation for it.

it's still good to have both even btc ia limited ,we can see how it values matters now, its value arise too much and alts still have potential for the future. Cryptos were indeed popular now.

Yeah it is limited but you can use multiple crypto as currency right bitcoin becoming a currency is possible the only issue the supply is limited using crypto is possible only if the supply available is sufficient for everyone and easily accessible

Most people discuss cryptocurrencies by assuming there is a free market in this money.

Modern history is fundamentally driven by elite manipulation of money and debt.  See my explanations here and here.

It would be naive to believe this is not happening to cryptocurrencies, as they have the ability to replace state-issued money and take the power from the elites.  The elites will either suppress cryptos or use them to enhance their power.  There is no in-between.  They are not going to let market forces decide the fate of cryptos.

So far it looks like they are taking the latter approach.  And I think the reason is that there is no limit to the supply of cryptos.

The thing is, we do not even know if Bitcoin is going to be the coin which survives all of this. It is actually unlikely that Bitcoin would be here in 20 years, given how many altcoins offer improvements to the underlying technology. When something is better, usually it becomes more popular. There is no difference in that logic here. If something else comes along which is greatly improved then it will take precedent over Bitcoin. A case could even be made for Ethereum in this regard.

All the points are valid and no second argument about this as supply of bitcoin is limited because supply is depending upon the user demand as the demand increases the supply is increased from the organization where as other crypto supplies are not limited because they produce a lot but user are in low amount and this makes it effect less as bitcoin user are in millions.

To be blunt, mainstream economists have mainly existed to serve the ruling elites.  They were in favor of the gold standard when it was operating, but are now almost totally against it.  Both times, they were saying what the elites wanted to hear, at the time.

World reserve currency is essentially a bubble that is propped up by the elites.  The nature of bubbles is that you don't know when and how it will collapse, but you know it will, and that you know the elites and their mouthpieces are always going to be saying everything is fine, before the collapse.  So accurate information of this nature is hard to come by.

It is also possible that the emergence of Bitcoin has given the elites an opportunity to deflate the bubble preventively.  Something of that nature happened around 1985 when a hard landing of the dollar was prevented by a combination of talking the dollar down and forcing Europe to inflate and making their currencies unattractive.

A basket of fiat currencies is what economists always talk about (assuming you mean the SDR issued by the IMF,) but we have no history that shows success by a reserve currency issued by a centralized authority without the help of a unified imperial power.  Through 500 years of modern history, global imperial currency has always been a combination of state issuance, precious metal backing, and support by imperial power.  Over the last 45 years the currency itself went totally fiat, and I don't believe this condition can last long.  Of course, the politicians, economists, and bankers are always going to say it will last forever.

New alts were developed and launche every now and then that's why its hard to choose among alts which is much better, but btc from its launched it have a fix supply amd we will know it's valie depending on demand. Though both were good to jave, just be careful on what alt to consider.

what you are saying here is only half correct.
half because you brought bitcoin inside it! exclude bitcoin and your statement here will be 100% correct.

you see bitcoin is different. it is known among many as THE cryptocurrency. nobody knows the altcoins. that is why we call ALL of them altcoins. it is like this: "bitcoin and the altcoins". that automatically categorizes them.

so think of it like this: supply of xCoin is limited but supply of all altcoins is not. that is actually one of the reasons why most altcoins just struggle to gain any foothold.

What you said it is correct but we are still very far to reach that point, when the dollar falls of grace as the world reserve currency the next question is what to do then, and economist have suggested what you are saying using a basket of fiats and creating a new world currency as a result, so what you are saying makes complete sense but you are too early, I do not think that is going to happen in decades or even in 50 years.

The Western imperial elites have been good at:

- Divide-and-conquer: there are usually large nos. of people who benefit temporarily from their scheme, so these people are on board, and it's just convenient that they don't understand how money really works.  E.g. the entire populations of Britain and the US were on board to inflate national-financial bubbles that lasted for more than a century each.

- Analytics: you can't prop up a fundamentally weak asset or country.  So usually the asset or country the elites choose to work with and inflate have some inherent strength, but is not strong enough on its own to succeed.  It's the combination of this elite partnership, and inherent merit, that allows an inflation scheme to succeed.

When it comes on possible manipulation or involvement then these metals investment or assets would really be include i don't think they would able to such thing on crypto knowing its decentralized but would rather they would create their own centralized coin which they could able to make control of it.Supply of bitcoin is limited which cant really be compared on gold or metals assets on this world.

If you're referring to the old gold and silver standards, yes, it was still a form of elite control and exploitation.  But that problem exists (or will exist) for both precious metals and cryptos.

Cryptos have the added problem that the elites' power is enhanced by being able to use new cryptos to expand the money base.

With both cryptos and precious metals, what we're really looking for is a store of value.  It's really not desirable, if possible at all, to use a distributed ledger based system as a means of exchange for everyday purchases, with every transaction verified and recorded on every copy of the ledger.

In fact, precious metals would be a better means of exchange, a role they served for thousands of years.  The reason they don't serve it any more is the same reason marijuana has been illegal until very recently: even though an artificial product has many side effects, the natural product gives less profit to the government and corporate elites.

We're not going to get total freedom or total slavery.  The reality will be somewhere in between.  Exactly what it will be like, is up to what we do and what we understand.

Thank you all for many thoughtful comments.  I'll try to respond to some individual comments, but here are my answers to the major points you raised, plus some clarifications:

1. I believe it's likely that a system reset is underway that will result in a big wealth transfer to holders of Bitcoin and other favored cryptos.  If you look at a diagram of financial crises around the world for the last few hundred years, the totally fiat money system since 1971 has been the most unstable period of all, with the possible exception of the interwar years that included the Great Depression.  The elites likely know better than us that this system has to go, but they are of course not going to publicize this fact until it's too late for the average person to profit from it.

2. Altcoins can't be dismissed -- even if few people believe in an altcoin, the initial buying by central banks will give an incentive for investors to buy in.  This is not the same as trying to make money out of iron, as the supply of iron is too big, while the supply of any one altcoin is limited (or at least more limited than fiat money.)  This incentive actually works the same across all asset classes, bank deposits, real estate, bonds, stocks, etc. -- state power is used to prop up favored financial assets artificially.  It's how the elites get their power and wealth, and there's no reason things should be different here.

3. I also don't think altcoins will be so dominant that Bitcoin will suffer a major loss as a result.  To the extent that the elites need to move public perception in favor of cryptos, they have to maintain confidence in Bitcoin most of all.  The favored altcoins will rise and fall more sharply than Bitcoin, but their long term return will be better than Bitcoin (assuming all coins will go much higher than today) -- after all, there has to be an incentive for investors to buy into altcoins.  The goal of the elites will be to keep capital diluted among different coins, but not so much as to quickly expose the 'infinite-altcoin' underlying reality which would risk destroying the entire scheme.

4. I don't agree with the idea that the elites will always control things and that all we can do is to submit.  First of all, it's not either total freedom or total control, but somewhere in between.  We have some control over exactly what system takes shape.  Yes, it'll be a long term struggle, but the best method of resistance is to understand the system and pass on the knowledge.  E.g. there was no reason for Britain and the US to join World War One.  If Britons and Americans had understood that the real purpose of joining the war was not to defeat evil Germans but to effect a successful transfer of monetary and imperial power from Britain to the US, some of them would not have been singing war songs, and things might have turned out differently.

5. My personal thinking is that an effective method of resistance is to try to profit from the system by using good understanding.  Since deception and lack of knowledge are a major support for the system, if the elites can no longer depend on this, they will have to adjust to make the system more beneficial.  E.g. if we all jump on the assets we think the elites are supporting (but of course never betting enough to get hurt badly,) the resulting instability will help expose the nature of the system to the public, and help move long-term history in the direction of freedom.

The law of conservation of energy only works in a closed system. For example, if the ground will fall the rain of Golden meteors that the price of gold will change. Who can know that this will never happen. The availability of alternative coins stabilize the situation in the cryptocurrency market and have a positive effect on the protection of whales. Hard to play cards with gamblers.

With the invention of bitcoin, the gate of a new world opened. This invention gave a new idea to the whole world, the concept of digital currencies. Ideas have larger impact than inventions. Because of the ease that we can have by converting our paper money system into digital currency system, new crypto coins will keep on releasing with time and bitcoin will always remain at the top as it is available in very limited amount.