The transaction fee is just ridiculous. - page 10.

redhawk979

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Quote from: MultipliedCombo on October 01, 2014, 10:54:44 PM

Well, if you think that Armory is enforcing unfair fees, then you can switch to a different wallet.

Each wallet has a different approach to fees. An example is that Bitcoin-QT has a compulsory 0.0025 BTC fee with each transaction (when I last checked), and Blockchain.info's wallet has a custom fee you can change, but the fees of previous transactions may build-up to hit you in a later date.

Literally this thread:

"Nobody is FORCING you to get to the city by using your car, you can totally just take a bike and NOT pay for gas but it will take you a bit longer to get there."

Thats technically true, but its not practical in the slightest, which is pretty much the OP's argument.

MultipliedCombo

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Well, if you think that Armory is enforcing unfair fees, then you can switch to a different wallet.

Each wallet has a different approach to fees. An example is that Bitcoin-QT has a compulsory 0.0025 BTC fee with each transaction (when I last checked), and Blockchain.info's wallet has a custom fee you can change, but the fees of previous transactions may build-up to hit you in a later date.

zimmah

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Quote from: awesome31312 on September 29, 2014, 07:15:33 PM

We are FORCED to pay a tax upon every transaction, and they say Bitcoin doesn't have any taxes? That's just pure crap. Taxation is unconstitutional theft via armed extortion. In Bitcoin's case, it's unavoidable, and is without the armed extortion (YOU ARE FORCED TO PAY).

No one forces you to pay to fees.

If you want to do a transaction without fees you totally can. It just may take a little longer to confirm, but it will eventually go through.

blumangroup

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'Slow and steady wins the race'

Quote from: etotheipi on October 01, 2014, 03:47:14 PM

The transaction fee logic implemented by Armory matches that of the Bitcoin Core client itself. If you were to include a fee lower than the fee there, the transaction will be DOA when you try to broadcast it. The Bitcoin network would never see it. Therefore, if you want your transaction to be accepted by the network you really must include that fee.

There are plenty of TXs that are rebroadcast by the nodes that include less then the "required" fee. Individual TX fee policies are set by the miners who are solo mining and the pools that the other miners are mining on behalf of. If a miner wanted to include a TX that includes less then the "required" fee then they can do this and their block will confirm assuming that it would not otherwise be orphaned and does not contain any invalid TXs in the block

awesome31312

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Quote from: etotheipi on October 01, 2014, 03:47:14 PM

The transaction fee logic implemented by Armory matches that of the Bitcoin Core client itself. If you were to include a fee lower than the fee there, the transaction will be DOA when you try to broadcast it. The Bitcoin network would never see it. Therefore, if you want your transaction to be accepted by the network you really must include that fee.

The fee does not go to Armory or even Bitcoin Core developers. The fees are set and collected by the miners that keep the network secure. We simply must follow those fees, knowing that just about anyone can be a miner and thus there is built-in competition to keep fees low.

In this case, your fee is higher than normal, probably due to your transaction combining lots of inputs, and being very large in size (in terms of bytes, not BTC). This is a defensive mechanism of the network, to make it expensive to fill up the blockchain with lots of data. Unfortunately, most of the time you have no control over this parameter and you simply must follow it. Most of the time it's negligible compared to the tx size, but not always. This is one reason people believe that Bitcoin won't be good for microtransactions, because the cost of those transactions (in terms of fee) exceeds the value of the transactions themselves.

Hey, I wasn't actually expecting you to read this, or actually go as far as responding to it Grin

Armory's great, in fact, it's been the only client I use!

Quote from: CircusPeanut on October 01, 2014, 04:31:10 PM

...Upgrade to the latest of Armory and you will save 90% on your taxes.

Needs to be a pop-up ad

CircusPeanut

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Quote from: etotheipi on October 01, 2014, 03:47:14 PM

...

In this case, your fee is higher than normal, probably due to your transaction combining lots of inputs, and being very large in size (in terms of bytes, not BTC). ...

Actually, that is not necessarily true. If you are getting the message that you "must" pay specifically "0.001" that is probably an indication that your version of Armory is out of date. 0.001 was the old standard min fee, it's now 0.0001. Upgrade to the latest of Armory and you will save 90% on your taxes.

Another thing that might be lost in translation on this thread is that Armory should be allowing you to send transactions for free whenever the network will allow it. If not, your transaction outputs are probably not old enough or big enough to earn them a free trip.

etotheipi

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Core Armory Developer

The transaction fee logic implemented by Armory matches that of the Bitcoin Core client itself. If you were to include a fee lower than the fee there, the transaction will be DOA when you try to broadcast it. The Bitcoin network would never see it. Therefore, if you want your transaction to be accepted by the network you really must include that fee.

The fee does not go to Armory or even Bitcoin Core developers. The fees are set and collected by the miners that keep the network secure. We simply must follow those fees, knowing that just about anyone can be a miner and thus there is built-in competition to keep fees low.

In this case, your fee is higher than normal, probably due to your transaction combining lots of inputs, and being very large in size (in terms of bytes, not BTC). This is a defensive mechanism of the network, to make it expensive to fill up the blockchain with lots of data. Unfortunately, most of the time you have no control over this parameter and you simply must follow it. Most of the time it's negligible compared to the tx size, but not always. This is one reason people believe that Bitcoin won't be good for microtransactions, because the cost of those transactions (in terms of fee) exceeds the value of the transactions themselves.

Walter Rothbard

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Bytecoin: 8VofSsbQvTd8YwAcxiCcxrqZ9MnGPjaAQm

Quote from: awesome31312 on October 01, 2014, 03:17:19 PM

If I put up a sign that says you must do something, that doesn't actually mean you MUST do it. It just means that's my opinion.

In this case, there's nothing forcing you to include a transaction fee. There are numerous alternatives documented on this thread.

awesome31312

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RodeoX

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The revolution will be monetized!

Ah, so because you don't want to pay a few pennies, miners around the world should use their electricity and hardware to do your Tx for free? I assume you know that all things cost money and that someone has to pay. If so, why should someone else pay your bills?

RustyNomad

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Quote from: Ondago on October 01, 2014, 03:51:23 AM

You're not forced. You're welcome to mine your own blocks. You can get to work with a pencil and paper here => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3dqhixzGVo

Best reply by far.... Grin

cr1776

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This was a great troll.

darthcoin

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You don't have to pay the fee, I never do and my transactions always clear. Are all of you guys too scared to even try sending a feeless tx? Cause mine always work

Ondago

newbie

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You're not forced. You're welcome to mine your own blocks. You can get to work with a pencil and paper here => http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3dqhixzGVo

RappingSniper

newbie

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You are not forced, you dont have to pay a transaction fee. But by not paying a fee you may not got your transaction processed until a miner who is kind enough to process transactions for free allows your transaction in a block.

itsAj

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Transaction fees support the network they are needed?

jbreher

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lose: unfind ... loose: untight

Quote from: RustyNomad on September 30, 2014, 01:53:01 PM

Should newcomers not maybe be shown how to play around on/with the testnet where they can pass around coins to their hearts content and by doing so get a true feel for how it actually works?

Test net is available to everyone.

Some time back, new registrants to this forum were limited to posting in the 'Newcomers' section (though they could read the entire forum). This gave a handy place for noobs to learn these basic concepts before wading out and embarrassing themselves by spewing nonsense on the rest of the forum.

Of course, noobs _could_ continue to learn these basics in the place most suited for such discussions. But they must feel insulted, or too self-aggrandized, or something.

fathur01

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Quote from: awesome31312 on September 29, 2014, 07:15:33 PM

We are FORCED to pay a tax upon every transaction, and they say Bitcoin doesn't have any taxes? That's just pure crap. Taxation is unconstitutional theft via armed extortion. In Bitcoin's case, it's unavoidable, and is without the armed extortion (YOU ARE FORCED TO PAY).

$0.04 is a BIG tax huh? You pay 4 cents and you can send millions of dollars across the world for FREE! Think about it.

RustyNomad

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Merit: 251

Just something I thought of while reading through the tread.

I understand that newcomers to bitcoin is often frustrated by the fees, I know I was. The first bitcoins a newcomer usually get is those from faucets and if you really go for it it is possible to make around 50,000 satoshi or even double that from the faucets in a day.

Many then use these coins to 'play' around with to test how things work etc.. but then run into the 10,000 satoshi fees which makes out a very large percentage of their 'faucet' coins even though its true value is negligible if measured in fiat.

I never really used the testnet version of bitcoin except for the short period while testing the new MyCelium version. Should newcomers not maybe be shown how to play around on/with the testnet where they can pass around coins to their hearts content and by doing so get a true feel for how it actually works?

I'm still a newcomer myself so sorry if this idea sounds a bit daft, just something I thought about.

Verse

newbie

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Quote from: awesome31312 on September 29, 2014, 07:23:49 PM

Try paying a satoshi to one of your alternative wallets with a 0.00000000 BTC fee

Ok so you want to be free to spam the blockchain? You have fundamentally misunderstood A) Freedom (Free Markets), B) The purpose of the TX fee, and C) How you harm the network by creating asinine transactions like sending 1 satoshi.

Tax is a time-based penalty of ownership. Bitcoin transaction fees are not time-based, they are a one-off expense. In fact, the protocol gives preference to "stagnant" Bitcoin transactions and allows for lower transaction fees. There is no taxation penalty for holding Bitcoin. Hold it a year, hold it a day, and when you go to spend it you're stuck with an independent fee.

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