Topic: The UK is moving towards forced isolation for people over 70. - page 2. (Read 858 times)

The big point that you don't realize about Coronavirus and most other viruses is...

... everything said is close to 100% HEARSAY... or show us the court docs.

It's all simply blabber and media propaganda.

The antigen (proper word for your 'the strain') count is one thing that the so-called 'anti-vaxxer' are NOT worried about.  Recently the pro-vax side is desperately trying to bring it up over and over again and pretend like the anti-vaxxers think it's a problem.  The reason why is that it isn't a problem and they have proof it isn't.  'We' never voiced concern about it.  It's just a wee bit to complex for most people though so I don't doubt that this will be lost when the slather on the propaganda about the 'mountain of studies' they have.


The word you are looking for is 'adjuvant.'  It's an irritant which sort of turbo-charges the immune system and is necessary to make certain vaccine classes 'work' (where 'work' simply means get the titer count to a certain level defined in regulatory documents.)

One of the troubles with adjuvants is that they make the immune system go crazy not only against the antigen of the vaccine, but with everything else it's doing besides (which includes knocking off badly behaving or retired cells of one's own body.)  Instant auto-immunity problems.  Usually they use Aluminum salts as adjuvants.  They've tried other things like squalene which is similar to the oil lubricating one's joints.  Guess what that brought on.  If you guessed arthritis, congratulations.


Another 'no shit' moment...of many when talking to you.  I would add that without a lot of them human life is impossible.


One reason is that the vaccines are undergoing 'failure'.  They are working less and less well as time goes by.

People who had these minor childhood 'right of passage' ailments (like me) never get it again because they created the natural whole immune response.  On top of that, women who had the ailments in childhood retain the antibodies and pass them to their own children protecting them in the first year of life when getting mumps, measles, chicken-pox, etc is actually a high enough risk to worry about.


Let me try to explain the paper to you.

 - They worked on developing a SARS coronavirus vaccine and in animal testing found a rather odd problem:

 -    animal subjects which were vaccinated ended up dieing like flies when exposed real disease came around.

 - The vaccine 'worked' in that the victim developed antibodies, but:

 - It seems as though _in this case_ the vaccine primed the immune system for a rather extreme over-reaction.  (cytokine storm.)

 - They warned explicitly to be super careful about this phenomenon if a vaccine is tried in humans.

So vaccine development for SARS coronavirus ceased...or did it?  Some people wonder if some of the victims in China had been part of phase 1 or phase 2 trials of just such a vaccine.  Of course even if this were the case it would be deeply covered up, and a Chinese doesn't really have the right to even know if they were part of a trial.  Same with U.S. servicemen.

The moral of the story is that there are very good reasons why vaccines SHOULD undergo long trials and shortcuts should not be taken.

I would point out the dengue fever is another one of these unusual instance where re-challenge was problematic.  Exposure to a 2nd strain after the first (or after the vaccine) creates a MORE dangerous disease than otherwise.  So the vaccine if given at all should only be given to someone who has already had Dengue once.  This was overlooked in The Philippines and it resulted in a scandal.  Thankfully for the Filipinos it also induced them to be a little more inquisitive and careful about vaccines.  Nobody likes to be a guinea pig, and especially when the developers are scientifically negligent and the public health officials are bought off by Big Pharma who feel like they can get away with almost anything in developing countries.

maybe you need to read it a few more times to understand it better
maybe you need to work out why a vaccine has a small amount of the strain in it. maybe you need to learn that yes there are risks that those having the vaccine may also trigger the fever/respiratory systems..
yep i already told you all about the immunopathy response even before you posted the link. heck you even made it bold highlighed which shows you atleast read it

what your not taking into account are these things
vaccines use the virus strain identifiers but make it impotent to not replicate. this allows the body to see a invador. handle it without the mass body spread.
then the body knows whats best to do next time to cut it short without panic.
however some people immune issues even if a non-replicating virus is introduced, when their body sees it their body automatically over reacts. even if the viral count itself is low

the virus and vaccine is not the killer. its your bodies own immunopathy reaction to an invader thats the killer
the real thing that you could should consider a worry about vaccines. is not the vaccine. or the risk of people still getting symptoms.. but instead the addative (adjunct) they use. as that in of itself can hurt people if the wrong one is used

..
here is the point.
did you know that right now. your body is actually full of billions of bacteria and viruses. yep we are all carriers.
why do you think even though measles and mumps meant to have been 'irradicated' people who are not immune still get it.
because other that are immune still carry it.
yep what has happened is the body has learned to not over react and not go into shock when it gets it when your immune. thus allowing the body just to concentrate all its energy on evacuating the pathogen thats not wanted out of the body with no notable sign that its happening.

thinking that something is irradicated is foolish. the reality is that the body learns to cope to handle it real fast and without over reacting. thus not showing mass spread that can be measured.
yep right now. everyone passes on last seasons flu. even when not snotty nose before. its just your body handled it so quick that it didnt get chance to replicate into measurable amounts. so the chance of passing it on is also low.

but i do hope you do more research. and thanks for showing you have learned what immunophathy is all about and that it is a real thing. and that its the bodies reaction to a invader. and not the invader.

Ya, ummm, before you rush out to get your necessarily poorly tested coronavirus vaccine next year, you may want to have a peek at this:

  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3335060/pdf/pone.0035421.pdf

Actually, that's not really aimed at you, Franky.  It's more for people who understand scientific stuff a little bit.  But maybe a friend can help you out before you make a big mistake.

your the kind of guy that doesnt seek information and then form an opinion. you seem to form an opinion and then only seek information that backs your opinion and ignore any info that doesnt even if that info is fact.

vaccines are not even a topic right now.. THERE ARE NO VACCINES.. so trying to turn tactics/plans of how to deal with corona right now into some vaccine plot is rediculous.. there are not even vaccines to be able to put needles into everyone.

everyone is going to get it. but only ~1% will feel the symptoms and only ~6% of those feeling symptoms will feel the severe symptoms

as for your spouts that it must be bio-lab made because its not the normal flu.. you really have not done your research.
the reason the cold has no vaccine is because the cold is not one strain.
corona has been around and recorded since the 1960's.. again not one strain.
2002 sars and then MERS were both more severe strains of corona compared to normal yearly corona.
this is not to do with severe strains being lab creations. but the fact that each season it does mutate and every 5-10 years the mutation naturally is significant enough to trick the body into not recognising it and thus the body goes into overdrive to try dealing with it.

what you dont realise about vaccines is this
the virus itself is not really doing the harm. its your bodys immune system that when not understanding how to handle something, it tries to fight it strongly and its your bodies response that is wat people feel
a virus does not have a flamethrower to attach your body and cause a fever. instead. its your body that sees a stranger  tresspassing and your body is then carrying the flamethrower to try burning the tresspasser.

vaccines (when good) introduce just enough identifiers of a virus, not to spread. but to instead let your body know and recognise the new thing. and as such your body will not go into full flamethrower mode and instead just go into normal kick its ass out mode. thus people dont feel the symptoms

there is no way to irradicate the virus from society and everyone will get it. but they just dont want everyone whos immune system cant cope with it to get the severe symptoms of when their own bodies have to go into overdrive.

so because there is no vaccine right now to get the body to not over react. thus avoid the severe symptoms. instead they knw if too many weak immune people get it in one go. there is not enough intensive care beds available to handle looking after people who get severe symptoms

so thinking everyone should just gather around and lick each others faces and everyone will be fine. is bad advice as is telling people to avoid a vaccine when it finally does arrive next year to curb the over reaction of the body next year

I don't doubt that there could be people who have 'information' on how this thing will present, but I doubt you are one of them.  If such people want the infection to come in waves so that vaccine uptake will be higher when the needles come out, that's probably what will happen.

I have not seen any reason to think that this one should present any different to the common cold if it is a naturally occurring coronavirus and different strains are not being deliberately planted into different population groups in order to be used as "politically useful tools."

Hard times require hard decisions

because there is no vaccine. herd immunity is the plan for every country..
but different countries do it in different ways

UK wanted to isolate the elderly. so they do not all require to lay in the 8k ICU beds in NHS all at the same time in just a couple weeks and instead try staggering the influx over 12weeks. and roll on from there once they have had dtimee to assess the next 12week phase

however they did want kids to go to school so the kids got the cold and recovered over easter..
BUT
now they want to close schools and keep them closed all the way through summer(6 months(26 weeks))
so that initial herd immunity plan has changed. its now a staggered approach more aimed at not over using the NHS resourses all in one go. less about letting it spread around the kids quick to get them naturally immune quick to then go back to normal sooner

so dont expect 'business as usual' in 2weeks or 12 weeks. this going to go on all through the summer, in many waves of peak points of infection rather than mass infection in one go
                                /\
 ___   _            not   /  \
/     \/   \/\              /     \ 

but anyway. yea the young, healthy, no underlying health will just have a cough and be ok after a few days. but i fel we will still see others getting more serious stuff later when they may get told to relax the isolation and then those who were isolating get it

i know china says no new cases.. but just wait until they try going back to usual and those that escaped getting infected first time, get it

I just found out that the UK seems to have a particular plan, and it is what I would consider to be a very viable one.  Not to say that it is 'the right plan', but it will be very interesting to analyze how it works.

As of yesterday 3 people had died from SARS-cov-II infection in Italy.  I say this because that is the number of fatalities among people with no other known issue.  This is important to note in looking at the UK's plan.

The plan is basically to allow development of 'natural herd immunity' by allowing the virus to sweep through the population.  Noting that the mortality among healthy people is VERY low and most people, if they even know they had the damn thing, get what is a minor cold which lasts a day or two, this seems like a rational idea.

What they are also doing is to try to protect people who are thought to be vulnerable while natural herd immunity develops.  That is the reason for singling out people over 70.

I gleaned this information from the latest Highwire show and have not cross-referenced it or verified things myself yet.

I found out why Morrisons seems to be getting more stock than other supermarkets. It seems they are paying their smaller suppliers immediately on delivery, so they are probably getting priority over some of the other supermarkets.

morrisons in my area at 8:30 way already showing missing items.

one thing i noticed is how people outside tried to distance themselves. but inside the store people were brushing past each other as if the store was some magic virus vaccuum

totally separate thing
what i also found funny is the whole self isolate the old.. but then want retired doctors over 65 to come back to the epicentres of viruses (hospital) and work 12 hour shifts...
i see the death toll of doctors will rise in that instance

I'm in Morrisons again this morning, and they seem to have developed a system to cope with demand. They opened at 7am, and the shelves were overflowing, and the queues to pay built up very quickly. They created lines in each of the aisles, and each line served two tills, and everybody was very civilised and polite. The shelves started to look empty, and they started restocking at about 9am. Obviously there is no supply shortage for them. The cafe is open again with 50% of the tables spaced out. I gather that Waitrose id taking a different approach, and it is closing its cafes and restaurants, and stopping their free coffee offer at all stores. They are also reducing opening hours - I'm not sure that is the best approach.

We seem to be adjusting to the artificial problems created by reports of the virus, and some manufacturers are switching to the manufacture of virus related products to replace other items that are in reduced demand.

Well we are still in a kaleidoscope here in England. I phoned my friend this am, and she asked me if i could get her some milk. She wanted 4 1 pint bottles - one for now, and 3 for the freezer. When I went to pay I had one bottle confiscated. It seems you canonly buy 3  bottles, which seems a bit mad, as the next rack contained a load of 4 pint bottles. If I had been hoarding, I could have bought 3 of those.

After dropping off her shopping, I went to Morrisons for coffee, and they have changed the cafe. Half of the tables and chairs have been stacked up in the lounge area which they has closed. This meant that there is at least 5 feet between tables. The only problem is that the lounge area has all the power points. Anyway, I applied my persuasive charm on the attractive assistant manageress, and she open a corner of the lounge area for me. I'm now in my own den, and still more than 5 feet from the nearest table.

There was a bit of stress at the do it yourself checkout. There were about 15 people waiting in the queue, and a guy of about 75 ( not me ) at the front. The supervisor told him sharply to get behind the line, and I thought he was going to kick off at her.  I didn't even realise that there was a line, but there is a thin brass strip set in the floor, and it seems you are supposed to stay behind that. There aren't any notices about it though, and everybody was pushing and jostling in the queue, so no 5 feet rules there. There was an A4 page of instructions telling you how to use the self service tills during the CV pseudo-pandemic, but there was too much, so I didn't bother to read it.

I guess the good news is that they will probably be allowed to keep the restaurant open if they follow government guidelines.

[edit at 16:20] The bad news is that due to lack of customers they lost money today, so the cafe will probably not be open tomorrow. I have been told that I can sit here, but I may not be able to buy a coffee.

Feel sorry to hear that. Some governments in EURO are showing their irresponsibility in containing and treating the virus. They seem to less care to infected people.

The real problem with self-isolation is that it doesn't expose you to the virus, and this means that your body won't build any immunity. It won't be possible to eradicate the virus, as we have not been able to eradicate the common cold. However we have built up a herd immunity, so it is now merely an inconvenience for most people. The callous manipulation of this virus to facilitate a banking reset is going to cause far more problems for society. This is the real threat to older retired people, as their savings are stolen, and they are conned into becoming dependent of health damaging drugs.

I've been doing similar but with honey to strengthen immunity, I don't want to catch the virus to allow it to mutate and spread further.
It would be almost impossible for me to die from it, and even people over 70 don't face much of a problem - especially at the age of 70. Most people likely to die are in their late 50s/early 60s or 90s afaik these days. The former caused by complications such as smoking and drinking.


I'm under the impression the bubonic plague and proto-covid-19 (the Wuhan strain) are probably similar in fatality rates (around 3%) the beta-covid-19 strain now is more likely to kill 0.1%-1% of individuals (based on their own immune system and precautions certain areas may take).

I see the students near me have done nothiing to aid in social distancing, all seem to be wandering around the city in packs still...

---

People repeatedly point out the food practices of other countries that do need solving but most countries are many years behind Europe.
The US are still using caged everything and labelling it free range if it doesn't have a cage but has a similar amount of space...
Bangladesh and thailand look to be trying to reduce caged animal exports to comply with the EU standards better. And meanwhile china haven't learnt that putting different types of animals next to each other (cooked, dead, alive) does nothing to help with hygiene. It's always weird that the "delicacies" of a place are the shit no one else wants to go near (like kaviar/tongue for the western world and snake/bat for china).


Another issue people don't seem to notice is that forced isolation of a population is going to do nothing for the mental health of anyone... Boris had to confirm that exercise comes under essential travel for this reason too (since a lack of open air and unlight leads to deficiency in vitamin D and issues absorbing things like calcium).

I'm actually paying for a tea, and getting refills with hot water and a slice of lemon where I can. I'm thinking of carrying my own lemon slices as well. It's really just the power that I need until I install some solar. Most of my comments are attempts to get people to be sensible, and to stop destroying themselves with statins and the like.

What really concerns me is the way this has been hyped up to enable the collapse of various nations' economies. Nobody uis talking about the 2 Chinese that have contracted the bubonic plague, and that could be far more worrying.

sorry to say this but its not some martial law, ca in the military and tanks and shoot anyone seen on the streets.

its more an advisory where even though you feel you personally are as fit as an 18yo. generally people over 70 are not as fit as a 40yo.
if yo wanted to start changing laws making it mandatory that everyone views people over 70 as the same as a 18yo. then you will never see your pension. and those who are not as fit as you cannot claim that 'its just old age'

dont go around showing off your superman and expecting other 70+ people to be able to fly and stop bullets too.
no one is forcing you at gun point to stay home (though you live in a van by the sound of it, so you have that freedom)
people who are SELF (emphasis self) isolating can still go out and go to the shops.

the government is keeping the grocery shops open at all costs.. so yea people can still go to the shops. and you can still walk about and drive a car.

just dont become a naive old man that stupidly wants to revolt and start licking trolley handles just for the sake of protest. pretending your protest is about feeling like your under strict orders and at gun point.. your not

just calm down. i think all of your behaviour is most likely just caffeine withdrawal. so before telling people to stop taking their meds. atleast first start handling your own caffeine addiction problems. as this last month your main worry has been how easy it would be to get a coffee/wifi in mcdonalds/costa.. which to me is just a first world problem of no big deal,
so just calm down a little or it will be the stress that will be your downfall

Why is it that people think that anyone over 60 is incompetent and a moron. Many of us can still go up the stairs two at a time, and I watch the fat young things take the lift, and then go to the pharmaceutical counter.

To a great extent, age is a state of mind. Keep up your metabolic rate, and don't shorten your stride. Keep your head erect, and eat healthy food. Don't let them give you any pharmaceuticals or vaccinations. Retain your sense of humour, and remember that it is a scientific fact that people who have more birthdays, live longer.

Actually, I want to say that also. Very few crypto users are in his age level as most of them don't want to dwell with the current technology. Maybe the government is just thinking about the vulnerability of this age group to something like this. The immunity to viruses such as covid is getting weaker as you grow older. But forced isolation? It is like you're being outcast of the society. Unless, they will provide all the things needed in that community and older people will not feel that they are being isolated from others.