The US Government wants your Bitcoin Miners!? - page 4.

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Quote from: Pmalek on February 07, 2024, 11:33:21 AM

The correlation the journalist made in the article is interesting. They mentioned the last country whose government required extensive information from Bitcoin miners. That was Venezuela. It the months following the survey, the authorities seized loads of miners and just took over the mining business from their end.

If the Venezuelan government did this, it's not so far-fetched that all governments would also do the same so they could all control the network thus effectively censoring the transactions. First, they hate Bitcoin but now they wanna take over Bitcoin.

There was an article that came out a week ago that one of the pools already censored a transaction. If they succeed so, there goes the decentralization we hope to continue.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Oshosondy on February 06, 2024, 01:29:17 PM

We have been discussing something similar to this. You can see it here if you click on this link https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63601670

I missed your thread. I checked with similar headings as in the original article and didn't find anything.

Quote from: Medusah on February 06, 2024, 06:00:17 PM

This action encourages the miners to move their operations outside the US.

Keep in mind though that moving a mining operation with possibly tens of thousands of ASIC miners and other hardware isn't like packing a suitcase to go on a holiday. Plus, some people might not want to move because their life and that of their families might be seriously impacted.

Quote from: franky1 on February 06, 2024, 06:04:53 PM

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Imagine how much harm America's sweetheart, Taylor Swift and her private jet have caused the environment in recent months. Wink

Quote from: Lucius on February 07, 2024, 10:10:25 AM

Whether this is just a show for the public or whether some of the anti-Bitcoin politicians managed to lobby for the initiation of such actions remains a question to which we may one day get an answer - but all this reminds me of what happened in China before they decided to ban mining.

The correlation the journalist made in the article is interesting. They mentioned the last country whose government required extensive information from Bitcoin miners. That was Venezuela. It the months following the survey, the authorities seized loads of miners and just took over the mining business from their end.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: franky1 on February 06, 2024, 06:04:53 PM

here's the thing though

when asic farms contact energy suppliers and buy mass energy contracts of XXXMW.. the energy suppliers, knowing the grid and SUPPLIES(its in their name) would not accept contracts if there was a risk to "grid stability"

its also funny how cars need hundreds of kw per charge are not being questioned

think about it 75kw is only a couple hundred miles car, which at 50mph is only 4 hours total travel
yet an asic at 3kw is 72kw is 24 hours constant use

strange how bitcoin (only 2.5m units in the world hashing(far less in just US)) is being treated more evil than ev cars which has 2.5m in just the US

US gov has no problem with a EV sucking 75kw in 20 minutes fast charge, in rotation per location
but thinks 3kw per hour is the killer of grid stability

asic farms are a stable grid draw of electric,
EV charging stations are the unstable unpredictable large draw in short time, no pattern risk

Because something like Bitcoin could be a threat to them and their position in society. Censorship-resistance, and self-custody - a significant feature that gives the user self-sovereignty, has the potential to weaken political strongholds. But the current generation of politicians are still in denial, and they still want to control Bitcoin because they simply don't understand it. Haha. I believe the next generation of politicians might be more like El Salvador's president.

Lucius

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If by some chance I didn't know that everything that is being asked about cryptocurrency miners comes from the US government, I would think that it was about a country where mining was illegal or maybe in a gray zone and that now that government has decided to legalize everything. This is how it turns out that the US authorities did not know anything about what they now want to know, and that they themselves have no mechanisms to find out.

Whether this is just a show for the public or whether some of the anti-Bitcoin politicians managed to lobby for the initiation of such actions remains a question to which we may one day get an answer - but all this reminds me of what happened in China before they decided to ban mining.

Quote from: Kakmakr on February 07, 2024, 12:20:08 AM

I think they need to tap in to all availlable tax resources to fund the real wars that they are funding. Take the "Iron Dome" in Israel for instance... it was funded by the US Government. (They are currently funding many proxy wars in other countries)

Tell me what does Israel even have that is not "made in the USA" or is it sponsored with their money? As things stand, it turns out that Israel, without US military assistance, could not defeat an enemy that does not have tanks, military planes, or any modern weapons systems.

However, I don't think that the US government is so desperate that it would try to increase its budget in such a way that it would try to take something more from crypto miners - well, their annual military budget is greater than the value of all BTC in circulation.

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Quote from: franky1 on February 06, 2024, 09:52:18 PM

energy is already taxed. its why electric prices are high because:
energy after sold from powerplant to the grid also includes the cost of taxes and emissions credits

This is slightly different.
Food already taxed in thee supermarket. But if you open a restaurant to sell food, you need to pay new taxes.

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I think they need to tap in to all availlable tax resources to fund the real wars that they are funding. Take the "Iron Dome" in Israel for instance... it was funded by the US Government. (They are currently funding many proxy wars in other countries)

They might also make sure that they are not funding their enemies wars on their own soil. (Bitcoin is borderless, so mining can easily be used to fund wars with almost anonymous origin.... freshly mined coins have not been in circulation and are harder to trace)

pooya87

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On paper there is nothing unusual about this. A lot of countries have already done this, in fact US is too late to make this kind of move. With energy crisis over the past couple of years, more countries are making such moves with strict regulations.
Not only there is a need to keep an eye on this kind of energy consumption but also the governments want a "source of revenue" as they smell taxes!

The problem is the history of such governments. Apart from what was mentioned in OP, we should remember what the US government did to MARA pool, forcing them to censor transactions which is a direct attack on Bitcoin.
Knowing miners, they could force them to only connect to "government approved" pools so that they can first increase the hashrate of such malicious pools like MARA pool and successfully attack Bitcoin that way.

Quote from: Pmalek on February 06, 2024, 01:18:54 PM

Quote

~ that is threatening grid stability throughout the US~

- The companies must state if they are mining Proof-of-Stake or Proof-of-Work coins. We all know this is bullshit, as Bitcoin is the target here.

They also contradicted themselves since PoS doesn't consume electricity to be "threatening grid stability"!

Quote from: franky1 on February 06, 2024, 09:52:18 PM

energy is already taxed. its why electric prices are high because:
energy after sold from powerplant to the grid also includes the cost of taxes and emissions credits

The government isn't taxing the energy again, they are taxing the new business that is converting that energy into money and has a revenue.

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Quote from: bitmover on February 06, 2024, 06:25:12 PM

Quote from: Pmalek on February 06, 2024, 01:18:54 PM

Here are a few interesting points from the article:

- They require that all mining facilities respond and fill out the survey as it's required by law.
- The companies need to submit their addresses and points of contact.
- The companies must state if they are mining Proof-of-Stake or Proof-of-Work coins. We all know this is bullshit, as Bitcoin is the target here.
- The companies need to state how many facilities they have in the US and provide precise coordinates.
- Mining companies must state the number of miners, their models, and the number of produced hashrate.
- EIA also requires information about how much electricity is being consumed.
- They need to name their electricity service providers.

Bitcoin become too big to be ignored.

They are getting themselves ready to tax miners imo.
Soon some new regulations will show up, and they will tax miners (which do make a lot of money, and make way too much in the past as bitcoin price skyrocket)

This is what governments do... tax

energy is already taxed. its why electric prices are high because:
energy after sold from powerplant to the grid also includes the cost of taxes and emissions credits

Quote from: bitmover on February 06, 2024, 06:25:12 PM

Quote from: franky1 on February 06, 2024, 06:04:53 PM

its also funny how cars need hundreds of kw per charge are not being questioned

They know who owns every car in the country..

i understand some are scared of the privacy of having to register their name and location of their asics
but with the REASON for the survey being about the grid stability i was more talking about the "stability" side

which bitcoin is stable. asics run 24/7 at 3kw an hour each(2.5m units world wide(maybe 1.5m units us))..
unlike EV spontaneous 75kw in 20 minutes fast charge unpredicably for 2.5m units in just america

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Quote from: Pmalek on February 06, 2024, 01:18:54 PM

Here are a few interesting points from the article:

- They require that all mining facilities respond and fill out the survey as it's required by law.
- The companies need to submit their addresses and points of contact.
- The companies must state if they are mining Proof-of-Stake or Proof-of-Work coins. We all know this is bullshit, as Bitcoin is the target here.
- The companies need to state how many facilities they have in the US and provide precise coordinates.
- Mining companies must state the number of miners, their models, and the number of produced hashrate.
- EIA also requires information about how much electricity is being consumed.
- They need to name their electricity service providers.

Bitcoin become too big to be ignored.

They are getting themselves ready to tax miners imo.
Soon some new regulations will show up, and they will tax miners (which do make a lot of money, and make way too much in the past as bitcoin price skyrocket)

This is what governments do... tax

Quote from: franky1 on February 06, 2024, 06:04:53 PM

its also funny how cars need hundreds of kw per charge are not being questioned

They know who owns every car in the country..

franky1

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here's the thing though

when asic farms contact energy suppliers and buy mass energy contracts of XXXMW.. the energy suppliers, knowing the grid and SUPPLIES(its in their name) would not accept contracts if there was a risk to "grid stability"

its also funny how cars need hundreds of kw per charge are not being questioned

think about it 75kw is only a couple hundred miles car, which at 50mph is only 4 hours total travel
yet an asic at 3kw is 72kw is 24 hours constant use

strange how bitcoin (only 2.5m units in the world hashing(far less in just US)) is being treated more evil than ev cars which has 2.5m in just the US

US gov has no problem with a EV sucking 75kw in 20 minutes fast charge, in rotation per location
but thinks 3kw per hour is the killer of grid stability

asic farms are a stable grid draw of electric,
EV charging stations are the unstable unpredictable large draw in short time, no pattern risk

Medusah

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This must be one of the biggest encroachments on privacy and the free market as rightly pointed out in the article. How can it even happen in practice? Maybe the government of my country is a little slow if I had to compare it with the US, but how realistic is it to expect from thousands of miners across your nation to accept and comply with this utopia?

Quote from: benalexis12 on February 06, 2024, 05:52:27 PM

The question is, why would they do that? The answer to that is simple, in my opinion, because they know that the bull run for Bitcoin is coming, but when it turns bearish again, they will stop that too.

How is the bull run related? This action encourages the miners to move their operations outside the US.

benalexis12

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The question is, why would they do that? The answer to that is simple, in my opinion, because they know that the bull run for Bitcoin is coming, but when it turns bearish again, they will stop that too. Such styles of a country's government are not new to us.

Most people know that when the government is in charge, there will definitely be manipulation in such scenarios. And for me, if I were a miner, I would not do it or allow it to be given or sold to the government. I am not stupid enough to do it because, for sure, they have bad intentions in that matter.

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Quote from: Faisal2202 on February 06, 2024, 05:33:51 PM

Your concerns/points also raise the same question, so my answer will be that's the problem of US and US citizens, we are not being affected by it.

Most of the overall network's hashrate is generated by miners who mine in the U.S., so a problem with BTC mining in the U.S. is a problem for the network. You can say miners may move to other locations, but it is not so easy to do that, due to the cost of electricity, logistics and personal reasons.

However, the purpose of this attack isn't for miners to pack up and look for other locations, i believe it is an attack on privacy, both for the miners themselves and soon for the tx's they mine, because they could make it a requirement that miners should not mine and should censor tx's from blacklisted or sanctioned addresses.

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I already read this news a few days back on the ALTT forum but did not see it from your eyes, I mean biden really wants to make BTC fully centralized or wants to control it somehow, but I did not realize the green energy and saving electricity or to maintain power station's supply types statements are just a cover-up while the real target is BTC and I have read many topics made on this forum that asks " what happens if a war started and US wants US citizens to stop mining, or using BTC".

Your concerns/points also raise the same question, so my answer will be that's the problem of US and US citizens, we are not being affected by it, I mean such steps made by US authorities will force mining operations to leave the country and they will lose the revenue that they generate from taxation.

People were already starting their mining operations in their countries with cheap electricity and now this will ~~make~~ force them to move more quickly.

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After knowing the density of indirect rule of this government or the US as whole in my country I kept wondering to myself what is really the intention of this few people who calls themselves the elites.

The government under the leadership of this elites are just increasingly trying to control the life of everyone directly or indirectly. what exactly are all this details that are required from miners going to do for them, the taxes people pay isn't enough for them, now it's to indirectly control Bitcoin related stuffs that is their sole desire. I pity the citizens of the US who discriminate others who migrates to the US for greener pastures, because if they start getting informed on how they have been manipulated for so long now they will seek freedom or even what to leave such places.

Imagine the US government succeeding with this enactments and as a result makes a rule that will seem so hard for bitcoin miners to keep mining Bitcoin, that will be a catastrophe in the Bitcoin world and with this intention can indirectly manipulate the market to their favour.

All I wish is for all their indirect fights against Bitcoin to fail but anyways we will keep watching and playing our role in Bitcoin for it to keep getting stronger.

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Quote from: Pmalek on February 06, 2024, 01:18:54 PM

I just came across this article, and it seems it hasn't been discussed here. The Biden Administration Wants To Create A Registry Of Bitcoin Miners
My first thought: What could possibly go wrong with a war-hungry and war-supporting government, which is in great debt to have an updated list of all Bitcoin mining operations on its soil? Roll Eyes

It could perhaps come in handy if a war on Bitcoin is declared or new revenue sources need to be found to finance the pursuit of freedom and democracy.

The first thing that comes my mind is not to trust this governments, because they have their own way of manipulating things for their own sake and benefits, in this, miners should not rejoice because there's no any benefits of friendship a lion has to do with a dog than to consume it, they are trying to lay a model as standard for them to follow after which they have all been regulated, the miners may first think about all these as for their own interest whereas not.

Oshosondy

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We have been discussing something similar to this. You can see it here if you click on this link https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.63601670

When I saw the news, I think the United States government are up to something. Let us keep watching as the drama continues. Probably they will look for ways to discourage mining.

Pmalek

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I just came across this article, and it seems it hasn't been discussed here. The Biden Administration Wants To Create A Registry Of Bitcoin Miners
My first thought: What could possibly go wrong with a war-hungry and war-supporting government, which is in great debt to have an updated list of all Bitcoin mining operations on its soil? Roll Eyes

It could perhaps come in handy if a war on Bitcoin is declared or new revenue sources need to be found to finance the pursuit of freedom and democracy.

Let's get to it.

Quote

the Biden Administration announced an emergency data collection initiative targeted at bitcoin mining operations in the US via the US Energy Information Administration, an "independent" sub-agency of the Department of Energy. It seems that the Biden Administration is identifying the electricity usage of the bitcoin mining industry as an emergency that is threatening grid stability throughout the US, as is evidenced by the name of the survey; "Proposed Emergency Survey - Cryptocurrency Mining Facilities."

Here are a few interesting points from the article:

- They require that all mining facilities respond and fill out the survey as it's required by law.
- The companies need to submit their addresses and points of contact.
- The companies must state if they are mining Proof-of-Stake or Proof-of-Work coins. We all know this is bullshit, as Bitcoin is the target here.
- The companies need to state how many facilities they have in the US and provide precise coordinates.
- Mining companies must state the number of miners, their models, and the number of produced hashrate.
- EIA also requires information about how much electricity is being consumed.
- They need to name their electricity service providers.

Source:
https://tftc.io/eia-bitcoin-mining-survey/

Official survey announcement:
https://www.eia.gov/pressroom/releases/press550.php?ref=tftc.io

Topic: The US Government wants your Bitcoin Miners!? - page 4. (Read 896 times)