The very sad truth about Bitcoin : It might die to gambling - page 2.

J603

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Besides, at the rate the world is going, eventually stuff like food and air may need to be bought and sold on the black market.

Yeah, that's why I've been hording air right now. My entire house is filled to the brim with it. I even filled my car with it, and I have a secret compartment within my lungs (don't tell anyone!)

Cluster2k

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There are three things that can kill bitcoin: narcotics trade, underage porn, and funding terrorism. Any one of these three can be used by major governments around the world to declare the trade in bitcoins illegal. That would automatically scare off any bank from converting bitcoins to money and back again. Banks that continue to facilitate trade would be locked out of the international money markets. It wouldn't be worth supporting a niche market like bitcoin.

I don't think gambling is a threat however. Site operators are unlikely to hoard everything they earn simply because there needs to be trade and a velocity of bitcoins being traded for them to be worth anything. If a group locked up all 21 million bitcoins tomorrow they would become worthless overnight as everyone else moves to another trading platform.

Hfleer

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Quote from: 001sonkit on August 05, 2013, 11:47:13 PM

If you mean just-di(c)e. their profit are mostly gone to all of us small investors. Those coins are ust owned by another guy. And seriously. Jd is already good enough to let the coins circulate. Some whale loses their coins. Those coins goes profit to all little investors.

Think about how the coins go now bro.

Right now I think a few big investors have majority of the stake, so don't count them out. Then there's some funds with a stake also.

J603

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Quote from: Dabs on August 07, 2013, 04:06:01 AM

There's that bitcoinstore.com that is supposed to do $800,000 in sales every quarter. And it's not fair if you don't count exchanges because that's how many bitcoins are bought and/or sold. There are like at least 10 major bitcoin exchanges starting with Mt. Gox.

The volume on gambling sites can also be misleading because that's the same coin being regurgitated over and over as people bet again and again, the same coins they used at the start of playing.

There are about 11 million coins now. Maybe 5 million of them move around on a regular basis. 40,000 coins for one or two gambling sites isn't big compared to all the rest.

SD this month (after it's sale) is showing negative right now. Just look at it's own analysis thread.

$800,000 every quarter? That means that SR sees more in a month than that site in a quarter (1.22 million pounds).

Truly we have a marijuana based economy, so the casinos have no chance.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-02/01/silk-road-crackdown

On a side note: If I have 4 bitcoins currently (and I'm buying more), does that mean that some day I'll have 4/21000000 of the entire economy's wealth? What about people who have large amounts? At that amount of money I could buy a country some day if bitcoin becomes a huge world currency.

RhoDelta

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There are many folks who want to gamble but live in areas where it is not legal. Bitcoin adoption for gaming is actually very beneficial to the btc community since it tends to be a hard habit to break. More people needing to buy coins to gamble with = more bitcoin buyers & higher price per coin.

Dabs

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The Concierge of Crypto

There's that bitcoinstore.com that is supposed to do $800,000 in sales every quarter. And it's not fair if you don't count exchanges because that's how many bitcoins are bought and/or sold. There are like at least 10 major bitcoin exchanges starting with Mt. Gox.

The volume on gambling sites can also be misleading because that's the same coin being regurgitated over and over as people bet again and again, the same coins they used at the start of playing.

There are about 11 million coins now. Maybe 5 million of them move around on a regular basis. 40,000 coins for one or two gambling sites isn't big compared to all the rest.

SD this month (after it's sale) is showing negative right now. Just look at it's own analysis thread.

onecent

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this topic is not worth arguing simply because gambling is part of the economy and part of the currency spending behavior, well i am arguing Roll Eyes

...just look at a bigger picture and you can figure it all out.

-Mk23-

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Can I borrow a btc. I spent all my coins on gambling lessons.... Wink

Mike Christ

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Quote from: Kouye on August 04, 2013, 10:13:31 AM

Quote from: Mike Christ on August 04, 2013, 09:59:09 AM

What's the point of making money and never spending it?

Care to show me a report stating gambling business in its whole is at a loss today, please ?
That would really be a releif.

I couldn't say; I don't know if there is one. My only point is, if I were a gajillionaire, I'd rather have a billion things worth a gajillion than live as if I were impoverished. If I have those billions of things, that means I put my gajillion straight back into the economy. In a capitalistic world, I would've reinvested that cash into my gambling business, which would've paid for a lot of people to do a lot of different things; perhaps I own a real casino and needed more craps tables and slot machines and what have you. Someone, paid, had to make those things for me to have.

worldinacoin

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My main worry for Bitcoin will be too many gambling sites and weed sites using Bitcoin, causing Bitcoin to be associated with such and giving the authorities an easy excuse to ban Bitcoin.

EscrowBTC

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Indeed, gambling brings a lot of money.

001sonkit

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Casper - A failed entrepenuer who looks like Zhou

If you mean just-di(c)e. their profit are mostly gone to all of us small investors. Those coins are ust owned by another guy. And seriously. Jd is already good enough to let the coins circulate. Some whale loses their coins. Those coins goes profit to all little investors.

Think about how the coins go now bro.

Kouye

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Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.

Quote from: Raize on August 04, 2013, 06:11:00 PM

Well, I think Stephen's point is actually a pertinent one. You do realize that there was a period of 1 year or more where Bitcoin miners basically owned 100% of Bitcoin. You can't just say, "X will own X% of Bitcoin" and expect us to see that as "wrong" or "the end of Bitcoin".

Econ 101 tells us that normal supply and demand is going to change over time. As Bitcoin is held more and more by hoarders, it's value increases such that the hoarders will eventually decide it's no longer time to hoard anymore. Of course, they should sell slowly in order to benefit from the increased prices, lest they end up losing value by selling too much. They also have to worry about being compromised and losing BTC that way.

I don't want you think you're being trolled. Just because there are a lot of gamblers out there does not mean everyone gambles. I don't, for example. I have to believe there's actually a large number of Bitcoiners that have never sent a dime to Satoshi dice or any other gambling outfit.

Thanks for that very sensitive post.

I still cannot calm this intuition that more and more people are relying on gambling as a last resort.
You know, gambling used to be forbidden and considered as a pure scam in france, a couple centuries ago, until king's chest went dry and some advisor helped initiating national lottery - I'm talking about france cause I'm living there (hence the dubious english).

Today it's become a growing source of government income.

Since hoarding is happening, as we speak (it takes a looooooot of poor guys to make a rich one, and rich people global cake slice is growing),
Since gambling is so easy with bitcoin, and so tempting for uneducated people,
Since nobody could point me to any bitcoin business moving around as many coins as SD or JD are today(*),
Since there is a limited amount of coins

I am still... Sad.

(*) I'm talking about bitcoin business. Not Fiat<=>bitcoin exchanges, which can't be candidates as in the future I'm talking about, fiat and banks are long buried.

hlynur

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Quote from: San1ty on August 05, 2013, 05:37:18 AM

Wow, This thread... Another beauty

. The good news OP is that you have nothing to worry about:

- Every human being with mediocre intelligence knows gambling is rigged and designed to take your money.
- Casinos are living off the stupid (and those that enjoy throwing money away). I'll make an assumption here that the average bitcoin user is smarter then the average human being.
- If fools like to be parted from their bitcoins it's their issue, but this isn't a threat to bitcoin.

+1
i can't help but to see the situation sometimes like a strangely distorted picture of the times of the good old gold rush.
gambling, prostitution and drugdealing were one of the first businesses that opened their doors
when some guys started digging a hole somewhere.
today we see this with again gambling, SR and porn???. (kay i never heard of any porn relation until now. perhaps the recent pedo-related news with freedom-hosting, as sad as that is Embarrassed

)

as a new and unregulated store of value this type of business is a logical first step towards adaption into human online economy.
it's filling the niches and demands of the modern online market, which also is kind of represented by parts of the blackmarket.
personally it never came to my head to start gambling as i see btc as an investment.
trading already feels enough like a gamble, no point in overstretching the risks
i'm sure money-laundering and tax evasion will become a big issue in the next years when this train gets more pace.
that's the problem, every coin has two sides. it's like the internet all over again. (although it feels like we're reaching the Middle Ages of the digital era right now with all the news lately)

San1ty

sr. member

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Wow, This thread... Another beauty

. The good news OP is that you have nothing to worry about:

- Every human being with mediocre intelligence knows gambling is rigged and designed to take your money.
- Casinos are living off the stupid (and those that enjoy throwing money away). I'll make an assumption here that the average bitcoin user is smarter then the average human being.
- If fools like to be parted from their bitcoins it's their issue, but this isn't a threat to bitcoin.

stslimited

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Quote from: Elwar on August 04, 2013, 11:17:07 AM

Quote from: crumbs on August 04, 2013, 11:12:18 AM

Quote from: Elwar on August 04, 2013, 11:06:07 AM

And again, a full country could have all of their capital in 1 Bitcoin and still be fine.

As long as it's fine with being *bought* for one bitcoin Cheesy

Just like how the US is fine with being *bought* for 18 trillion dollars?

Where does buying a country come into play?

that would just clear the US' debt, save for pension funds which are much greater

EmperorBob

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Quote from: Elwar on August 04, 2013, 11:00:25 AM

Where do company profits usually go?

A. Paid to investors
B. Invest back in the business
C. All of the above

^^ This ^^

Unless the shareholders of bitcoin gambling companies are completely nuts, they'll want to be able to do something with the money the company earned. Whether that's converting to fiat, or making purchases, (or saving it, but that's no different than any other source of revenue). The company might also invest it to grow its future profits (but that involves spending the money).
This isn't some theoretical statement we're making. Satoshi Dice was paying monthly dividends before it got bought out.
Bitcoin is very much like cash. No company would simply grow their cash reserves forever, not investing it or passing it on to shareholders. That would be entirely wasteful and irrational.

Raize

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Quote from: Kouye on August 04, 2013, 05:41:33 PM

Quote from: Stephen Gornick on August 04, 2013, 02:12:48 PM

And then?

Really ? I won't feed you, sorry. Try another thread.

Well, I think Stephen's point is actually a pertinent one. You do realize that there was a period of 1 year or more where Bitcoin miners basically owned 100% of Bitcoin. You can't just say, "X will own X% of Bitcoin" and expect us to see that as "wrong" or "the end of Bitcoin".

Econ 101 tells us that normal supply and demand is going to change over time. As Bitcoin is held more and more by hoarders, it's value increases such that the hoarders will eventually decide it's no longer time to hoard anymore. Of course, they should sell slowly in order to benefit from the increased prices, lest they end up losing value by selling too much. They also have to worry about being compromised and losing BTC that way.

I don't want you think you're being trolled. Just because there are a lot of gamblers out there does not mean everyone gambles. I don't, for example. I have to believe there's actually a large number of Bitcoiners that have never sent a dime to Satoshi dice or any other gambling outfit.

01BTC10

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Only in the US (mostly) it's hard to gamble online with fiat. Here in Canada it's trivial and in Europe too. It's not like everyone is going to gamble all what they have because they can... Compulsive gamblers are a minority like alcoholics.

Kouye

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Cuddling, censored, unicorn-shaped troll.

Quote from: Stephen Gornick on August 04, 2013, 02:12:48 PM

And then?

Really ? I won't feed you, sorry. Try another thread.

@all, I am just concerned by the following observations:

- Gambling has become trivial using bitcoins, compared to what it used to be with fiat
- Gambling addicts are all over - Just check the reports on currently operating gambling sites
- Gambling operating sites, as a whole, gain wealth over time, at a faster pace than any other business

I will let this get buried, for now, but I really hope I won't have to bump it when gambling services own 50% of the bitcoins.
Just quit gambling, for your own sake.

Topic: The very sad truth about Bitcoin : It might die to gambling - page 2. (Read 6968 times)