The Whole Concept of Bitcoin is Failing! - page 4.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

What has happened now? High transaction fee, congested Bitcoin blockchain and continuous discussion about Ordinals. Cursing the miners and what not!

If you noticed well the way things have been going on with the transaction fee these days, it will drop and after some time increases, the high fee is actually a benefit on the miners, they would have experienced low income for the past before this kind of opportunity comes in for them to have higher preference on transaction fees, it's not expected of us to say bitcoin network is failing yet since we have everything working as the protocols states.

Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

Where are we going as a Bitcoin community? What do the developer plan for the future?

I can still say it boldly that even if there's nothing done about this ordinals challenge, it is still a millions times better than the local traditional fiat transaction fee we have been paying over years, but i will say that a little more patience is needed to see what may comes in after this, almost everybody is being affected in this.

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on December 20, 2023, 09:47:17 AM

I'm curious where did you read "the whole concept of Bitcoin is cheapest payment"? I didn't find it through the whitepaper.

I don't know where the OP got it either. Besides, the initial concept can change and the creation can still be a success, as it seems to happen for saving and transferring from certain amounts. For me it is more important what DooMAD says:

Quote from: DooMAD on December 20, 2023, 09:07:04 AM

Some would argue the concept was censorship resistant transactions and permissionless freedom.

It is a freedom that today is in danger.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

What do the developer plan for the future? Is this infestation being done by the government?

Now that you haave mentioned it, it's somehow going to make sense if Blackrock is up to take over the crypto market. If those Ordinals are not enough to discourage people from using BTC, imagine if they add another BRC20. But this will again fall to a conspiracy theory. It's always a conspiracy theory even after it happens.

I thought there would be a fork that would happen because of this since there are already devs expressing their dismay.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on December 20, 2023, 09:13:12 AM

Transaction fees are occasionally high, but it's not a trend of them getting higher over time. It's just that, at some periods, some events trigger increased activity, and those periods are bad for casual Bitcoin users just wanting to make a small transaction. 2022 was a year of very reasonable fees, and the same goes for parts of 2023.

But this time is different. Although, it is possible that bitcoin and Ordinals transactions may reduce sometimes and the fee can become low, but different from 2022 and the past when there was nothing like Ordinals.

Quote from: kryptqnick on December 20, 2023, 09:13:12 AM

I don't think Bitcoin's "whole concept" is of it being the cheapest system. To me, it's more about having a currency that's truly independent of the governments and from corporations; it's also about being able to send funds online without intermediaries.

It would have been better if the fee is cheap than how it is now.

Quote from: franky1 on December 20, 2023, 09:55:35 AM

transactions are not guaranteed to be added to a block. many transactions get rejected..
you wanting the junk to continue is your own foolish nonsense of wanting bitcoin to become annoying and expenive to transact so you can promote other networks to idiots

Never mind me that I quoted this. Some people called the transactions as spam on this forum, but you can see how clear that BRC20 topics reported are not moved to altcoin boards but stayed in bitcoin discussion. Also that there is nothing developers are doing to make this type of transaction not to be on bitcoin blockchain. I am starting to think that this spam are now considered relevant and seen as bitcoin tokens.

Quote from: Zaguru12 on December 20, 2023, 10:01:29 AM

They are currently more than 30 of them with new ones been lunched also, the likes of CSAS and 1000SATS getting the new attention. OP can easily check on them on coinmarketcap at the categories page

The real name is SATS. But some people and exchanges refers to it as 1000SATS which is still SATS in different denomination. That is SATS price multiply by 1000.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

What has happened now? High transaction fee, congested Bitcoin blockchain and continuous discussion about Ordinals. Cursing the miners and what not!

The Bitcoin network is already congested a lot and it will continue to survive with that congestion. The problem with those high fee is that the normal payments with Bitcoin aren't feasible right now and that made many users to switch to alternative blockchains. I would say that the ordinals are the worst type of attack on Bitcoin network and unfortunately the developers can't do anything to stop the growth of those ordinals. So many new BRC-20 tokens are getting ready to be listed on exchanges and if they somehow succeed to get listed on exchanges then the network will get more congested day after day.

The exchanges and other platforms are promoting those ordinals to earn trading fees and extra and they don't care much about Bitcoin's network. The only possible solution to combat the ordinals issue is to go with LN but no body talks about that anymore and it's usage isn't that high. That's why the ones who used Bitcoin as p2p payment solution are switching to altcoins and if it continues like that then very few people would use Bitcoin as p2p payment system and most people will consider it as an asset only.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

Is this infestation being done by the government? Let's discuss possibilities or we might end up with nothing before the next halving.

I don’t think they will be the ones onto this, they wouldn’t want to waste so much amount of money to infect the blockchain, they would rather switch focus to getting larger pools to censor transactions just like we have seen F2pool and Mara pool onto, if they want to attack the network. The issue of inscriptions are just bunch of individuals that found a way to milk gullible people from their money since they saw how well the NFTs went.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on December 20, 2023, 08:36:50 AM

Not only ORDI that caused the recent congestion, SATS is also part of it and other BRC20 tokens.

They are currently more than 30 of them with new ones been lunched also, the likes of CSAS and 1000SATS getting the new attention. OP can easily check on them on coinmarketcap at the categories page

Quote from: Franctoshi on December 20, 2023, 08:58:50 AM

I wonder what would be the transaction fees and the kind of network congestion we would experience going further as we haven't even hit the main bull market where we would likely have Bitcoin trading around $100k+ — $250k+ price per Bitcoin.

The thing self is, it is not the price of bitcoin that actually causes the high transaction fee but rather the mempool congestion that does that. We have had bitcoin transactions fees at 1-5sats/vbyte when the price was around $30k-$40k last year and a fee of around 20sats/vbyte when the ATH then was not upto $40k

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Quote from: DooMAD on December 20, 2023, 09:07:04 AM

Some would argue the concept was censorship resistant transactions and permissionless freedom. Low fees were just the icing on the cake. Let's try to keep things in perspective.

The closest risk to the concept failing is the angry mob with their pitchforks and torches advocating banning transactions.

bitcoin was about immutability that things cannot be edited once confirmed..
and the whole idea of private keys is that no one can steal funds because funds can only move with the permission of the key holder

also consensus is literally the meaning of mass consent

transactions are not guaranteed to be added to a block. many transactions get rejected..
you wanting the junk to continue is your own foolish nonsense of wanting bitcoin to become annoying and expenive to transact so you can promote other networks to idiots

so stop with your nonsense. learn bitcoin and stop trying to want bitcoin to conform to the corporate plans of wallstreet

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I won't lie. I am a big Bitcoin believer and have been since 2020, but this fee problem is very worrying. If you look at the infographics being shared by other shitcoins that does the same blockchain fancy stuff and for that, you pay less than 10 cent fee for one transaction. And for Bitcoin, it's currently above $20 and the time it takes is so much for an ordinary transaction.

Imagine you are buying something and your Bitcoin transaction is taking 30 minutes to confirm, you can't wait for this much time when you have payment methods which takes less than a second nowadays. Sad to see this.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

The whole concept of Bitcoin being the cheapest payment system already got ruined after 2017. Then came a time when institutional investors started buyin Bitcoin and we saw a new ATH. Everything was looking good until these guys, ORDI started utilizing the infrastructure for their own shit agenda.

I'm curious where did you read "the whole concept of Bitcoin is cheapest payment"? I didn't find it through the whitepaper.

I guess this is what we need to expect if most of Bitcoin is already mined and mining no longer profitable, I don't think the miners are fine to accept loses just to make people can able to proceed their transactions.

Sooner or later we will be forced to use L2.

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The concept of Bitcoin from my subjectivity is transacting directly with each other without intermediary and a currency without central controls so cheap transaction fees should have been another agenda but it is not included, but it's carried along the way, now if Bitcoin was to create freedom for both the status quo rich and status quo poor, with the high transaction fee it doesn't create a scenario for the status quo poor people to be free it's now a currency for only status quo rich people.

I haven't obviously seen any possibility to reduce the congested blockchain but only probabilities that are not up to 70% surety for working out.
I'm not sure of this thoughts in my head that it might also be that high transaction fees are initiations from the high profile personals or the so called government(s) inorder to maintain the social strata, because Bitcoin has powered social mobility which might force some of them to drop from their statuses.

My interest is how do we as a community influence the transaction fees to reduce? knowing too well that nothing has been done since the complains of high tx fees.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

What has happened now? High transaction fee, congested Bitcoin blockchain and continuous discussion about Ordinals. Cursing the miners and what not!

It is bad enough to cry but problems appear to be fixed and I am sure Bitcoin developers can do it. Do you think without Ordinals, Bitcoin blockchain and the next bull run will be lack of interesting recipe.

Problems from Ordinals on Bitcoin mempools should not be underestimated because they are serious enough but do you think that what will happen if Bitcoin developers and community and figure out solutions and reach to a consensus to resolve it?

Moon we go.

Bitcoin miners and Ordinals guys will not like it but Bitcoin community are decentralized and I think we will see power of decentralization.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

Consider the situation we were in 2021 and then considering the present situation we are in, what do you think is the problem? Most of us would say nothing! I would say it is the transaction fees, won't you agree on this part.

And you also shout that bitcoin will cost $100k, 1000k. Imagine how high the transaction fees will become at that moment.

Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

The whole concept of Bitcoin being the cheapest payment system already got ruined after 2017. Then came a time when institutional investors started buyin Bitcoin and we saw a new ATH. Everything was looking good until these guys, ORDI started utilizing the infrastructure for their own shit agenda.

Indeed, bitcoin has moved away from the original concept and the community now uses bitcoin more as an investment and speculative tool than as a means for online payments. This is the reality.

Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

What has happened now? High transaction fee, congested Bitcoin blockchain and continuous discussion about Ordinals. Cursing the miners and what not!

Wow, take it easy. Just don't panic.

Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

Where are we going as a Bitcoin community? What do the developer plan for the future? Is this infestation being done by the government? Let's discuss possibilities or we might end up with nothing before the next halving.

Well, we'll still be left with something.

I am sure that the developers, even without our panicked cries, are well aware of the scale of the problem and are working on it. They work, right?

What does the government have to do with it? Which one? World government? This smells like some kind of conspiracy theory and reptilians.

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Transaction fees are occasionally high, but it's not a trend of them getting higher over time. It's just that, at some periods, some events trigger increased activity, and those periods are bad for casual Bitcoin users just wanting to make a small transaction. 2022 was a year of very reasonable fees, and the same goes for parts of 2023.
I don't think Bitcoin's "whole concept" is of it being the cheapest system. To me, it's more about having a currency that's truly independent of the governments and from corporations; it's also about being able to send funds online without intermediaries.

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Some would argue the concept was censorship resistant transactions and permissionless freedom. Low fees were just the icing on the cake. Let's try to keep things in perspective.

The closest risk to the concept failing is the angry mob with their pitchforks and torches advocating banning transactions.

//EDIT:

Public Notice:
I have user franky1 on ignore and won't be responding directly to whatever nonsense he's spouting. His ideas regarding Bitcoin are a direct threat to freedom. I've never seen someone so deep in the totalitarian closet. I'd strongly advise against engaging with this user, unless you want him trying to dictate to you what you can or can't code.

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The fees are becoming so worrisome and not making sense anymore with this crazy fees, as it is gradually shifting from what it used to be before, the cheap transactions fees we used to have back days, and I wonder what would be the transaction fees and the kind of network congestion we would experience going further as we haven't even hit the main bull market where we would likely have Bitcoin trading around $100k+ — $250k+ price per Bitcoin. This issue needs to be fixed with urgent attention, else the average Joe wouldn't be able to get their hands on Bitcoin because of its high fees when they think about how much they would spend on fees to get a small amount of BTC and seem it's where we are heading to and if care is not taken.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 20, 2023, 08:28:36 AM

The whole concept of Bitcoin being the cheapest payment system already got ruined after 2017. Then came a time when institutional investors started buyin Bitcoin and we saw a new ATH. Everything was looking good until these guys, ORDI started utilizing the infrastructure for their own shit agenda.

It is worth knowing that Ordinals started with NFTs before BRC20. ORDI is just one of the BRC20 tokens but there are many of them. There are many to come is be what people are predicting. So let us expect more congestion if nothing is done.

Not only ORDI that caused the recent congestion, SATS is also part of it and other BRC20 tokens.

With what I am thinking, Ordinals will stay. Bitcoin developers need to look for means to make the transaction fee cheap as it was before. BRC20 will likely grow and the onchain transaction will increase if nothing is done.

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Consider the situation we were in 2021 and then considering the present situation we are in, what do you think is the problem? Most of us would say nothing! I would say it is the transaction fees, won't you agree on this part.

The whole concept of Bitcoin being the cheapest payment system already got ruined after 2017. Then came a time when institutional investors started buyin Bitcoin and we saw a new ATH. Everything was looking good until these guys, ORDI started utilizing the infrastructure for their own shit agenda.

What has happened now? High transaction fee, congested Bitcoin blockchain and continuous discussion about Ordinals. Cursing the miners and what not!

Where are we going as a Bitcoin community? What do the developer plan for the future? Is this infestation being done by the government? Let's discuss possibilities or we might end up with nothing before the next halving.

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