Topic: They own more Bitcoin than Satoshi Nakamoto (Read 198 times)

If actually anyone knows whether Satoshi is still alive or not, then it's not an anwer that will just be given out like that. If Satoshi is still alive and never made himself known then you don't need to care about how he feels towards ETF, I don't think Satoshi gives a fuck about who owns more Bitcoin than him or not, mind you, ETF is not one man's asset.

Thanks for pointing that out, but I do understand how it works. What I meant about ownership isn’t in the legal sense but more in essence, especially when compared to Satoshi’s ownership. So the argument becomes more of a 1 vs. 1 comparison.

ETFs aren’t the same because they rely on shareholders’ money to increase their holdings. Those shareholders have indirect ownership since they’re investing for price exposure to Bitcoin. On the other hand, Satoshi has no strings attached, he has complete freedom to sell anytime he wants. Unlike ETFs, which have a responsibility to their shareholders to ensure proper management, generate profits, and build confidence to attract new investors, all of which contribute to increasing their holdings.

Although the ETF is an organization, not an individual, and no one knows exactly how many bitcoins Satoshi owns. But we need to admit that ETFs are buying a lot of bitcoin in a short period of time and if this continues, sooner or later they will own the majority of the bitcoin supply. This is inevitable and we have to face it.

This is news that the media reported and OP is just a reposter, people don't need to react harshly to him. Also, someone owning the majority of the bitcoin supply, whether it's satoshi or ETFs, is not good for bitcoin because it just makes it more centralized, we don't need to protect anyone. Let's not forget Satoshi created Bitcoin to be decentralized and no one to control it but someone owning too much Bitcoin goes against that idea.

The question is that how did you know that the firm owns bitcoin more than satoshi nakamoto, do you realise that satoshi is the one who invent bitcoin, so for satoshi to invent bitcoin he will have bitcoin surplus and he also knows the key to generate more bitcoin from it tech, so it's unbelievable that bitcoin investment or investor will own bitcoin more than the person that have the script of bitcoin, from my own understanding I think it's unbelievable.

Goose bumps it is that I am getting!  So Bitcoin is for the most part concentrated in the hands of only a few entities.  This is absolutely crazy, though not too unexpected on the other hand.  After all, we all knew and expected this to happen as soon as Bitcoin clearly became an Asset of interest for the Rich.  It would have been utterly stupid for them to continue ignoring an Asset that truly rose from ashes, from nothing to the price of a decent house in Europe today.

This was something to expect when Banks were thought to start adopting and offering Bitcoin as a Currency to regular customers.  What did we expect, true Decentralization?  Banks offering us Bitcoin next to the Private Key, just in case we want to break the link between us and the Bank?  This was obviously the same scenario.  Banks holding on to MILLIONS of Bitcoin under the name of their customers.

not misleading at all
investors of ETF dont own the bitcoin.. heck even balckrock dont own the bitcoin

firstly
share holders of ETF have absolutely no ownership rights that their share are bitcoin ownership legal claims
they dont even get voting rights of the trust.
they dont even get to have a say on blackrock business matters

ETF shares are just financial gestures of something that will mirror the bitcoin price at a pegged rate blackrock choose

secondly
sponsors/agents buy bitcoin and then deposit it with coinbases internal system which then moves the bitcoin to coinbases provided address , where coinbase notifies blackrock of said deposit to trigger blackrock to get a receipt that sponsor/agent X put coin into this coinbase custody system for blackrock.. blackrock then in their ETF platform give sponsor/agent X a basket of shares at a pegged rate

meanwhile the coin is in addresses where COINBASE own the keys.. not the sponsor, not blackrock
#not-your-key-not-your-coin

coinbase have the keys so its coinbases coin based on blockchain data,
again emphasis: #not-your-key-not-your-coin
and it would be coinbase that would CHOOSE to then honour any non blockchain data contracts(such as the private contracts with blackrock) or blackrock would have to take coinbase to court to try and convince a judge to get coinbase to move coins if coinbases chooses not to honour other contracts outside of the blockchain

but based on blockchan data, coinbase owns the bitcoin

for blackrock to claim full or part ownership of bitcoin on the blockchain they need to be the privatekey owner or be part of a multisig of equal/greater signing permission

It’s misleading to think they really own that Bitcoin. It’s a company holding it on behalf of investors, so the true owners are the people who invested betting on the value of bitcoin. Comparing this to Satoshi’s holdings isn’t accurate. Satoshi could be one person or a group who can move their Bitcoin whenever they choose, while ETFs don’t have that freedom, as they are just entrusted to it.

An ETF not literally works like a bank, but we could use this simple example like when we deposit money into a bank, it doesn’t mean the bank owns that money. It’s just reflected on their balance sheet as total deposits. Similarly, ETFs hold Bitcoin, but the ownership lies with the investors, not the fund itself.

ETFs are mostly owned by institutional and retail investors. The bigger ETFs's meant more interest from institutional and retail investors. I believe most of institutional investors are holding BTC for long term. Meanwhile, retail investors used it as their IRA.

There's nothing to feel worry about, even if ETFs surpassed 5 millions BTC, and i'm fine. Still waiting for China to compete for the Bitcoin race with US. This is gonna massive.

As for Satoishi, i have no comment about him. He and his bitcoin always remain a mystery forever.

According to arkhamintelligence, Coinbase have 930K Bitcoin which technically they should appear in the list.

Yeah ETFs are mostly held by Coinbase, only few companies willing to custody the coins by themselves.

If we talking the truth, most companies and government still not trust in Bitcoin, instead they use Bitcoin to make profit. They earn annual fees from ETFs, they earn Bitcoin after seizing from criminals etc, they never bought the coins by themselves.

although these BTC in ETF are custodian in nature, i think the owner is still the people who bought it, I don't think it's that much of a problem from my opinion. I mean yes we're at the risk of third party keeping our BTC and maybe some people consider these BTC are actually owned by those institutions because not our key not our bitcoin, but then again it's what it takes for BTC to get legal acknowledgement and be considered legitimate which might opens up for wider adoption.

if we look at the recent inflow, ETF has been quite massive so far in attracting capital.

Wait here. You can't just make an assumption then create a comparison based on that guess as if it it were a fact. Nobody knows how much bitcoin Satoshi owns. So your comparison here makes no sense at all.

When people don't know his identity, they also don't know of his state and how much bitcoin he owns!
And why would he be happy or unhappy about a group of people who made a company owning bitcoin! Bitcoin was created so that anybody, literally anybody, can use it however they like. If some people chose to create a firm and then use other people's money to buy a lot of bitcoin, that is part of being permissionless.

Your data might not be true.

This is because there is no public data on How much does Satoshi actually own.

Compare Satoshi Nakamoto, a single entity with Bitcoin Spot ETFs that are many different entities is not a good comparison. A note about Satoshi Nakamoto identity, we don't know true identity of Satoshi Nakamoto, that entity can be a person, group of people, an organization.

They are not a firm, and Bitcoin Spot ETFs in the USA are products of different firms, a dozen of companies in the USA.

Some Bitcoin Spot ETF trackers.
https://etfdb.com/themes/bitcoin-etfs/
https://www.coinglass.com/bitcoin-etf
https://farside.co.uk/?p=997

Whether Satoshi Nakamoto is actually alive or dead no one knows and can't guess. Likewise, no one knows the exact number of bitcoins he holds, and that number (1.1 million) is also a guess. If Satoshi is alive and if he continues to hold bitcoins, no one should have more bitcoin holdings than Satoshi. But if he were to die, the number of bitcoins held by various large holdings in the future would surely be greater than Satoshi's predictable number.

At this point in the life of Bitcoin, I'm not sure the community would still be bothered whether Satoshi is alive or not. I mean, Bitcoin has been doing well without his presence after its creation and his absence seems to have been fuelling that. So, we rest that case.

About Satoshi being happy or not the way things have turned? I'm not sure he would be happy. He wanted it to be a means of payment but sadly (good thing though) Bitcoin has transcended that into a speculative asset.

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I hate to see the Chinese government as a top hodler of Bitcoin, knowing how it tried on several occasions to strangulate Bitcoin's growth and adoption through its bans. Gosh!

That's how ETFs companies/exchanges gain more profit, them dumping those coins is our less of concern since i don't think they will do it as they continue to gain profits from it even just holding it while their users try to trade of these exchanges.

It's actually a merged quantity owned by many companies that do trade or involved with Bitcoin ETFs.

Let's leave him at peace I guess if he chose to go away and leave mysteriously, he'd won and we have to settle with that.

100%.
He's made a great creation and that's why he surely is happy about it and knowing that he's got some BTC's left, he's one of the richest already.

In addition Satoshi is claimed to be an Individual and the US spot ETF consists of investors. It's nothing for Satoshi to be worried about, who bypasses him or not. He is happy for the success of his investment. However, the only image this table paints is that with enough money, brands, companies, or individuals can stack up BTC more than most decades ago holders did, during their mining days.

Some said they are a group of people; others said it's just an individual, but whichever one it is, the overused phrase is to refer to it as a single person, even if it's for a group of people. As far as SATOSHI is concerned, I believe it to be one person, so Wiwo is not wrong for referring to him as an individual. You are also not wrong; all we know is "SATOSHI owns a high volume of bitcoin, which the number is not really that certain and accurate.

Firstly no one actually knows the exact amount of bitcoins Satoshi mined before he disappeared. What you see on the internet is basically an estimate of what he probably mined before he vanished. Satoshi didn't mine for years he as well as several old miners back then had the advantage of very low difficulty compared to now and huge block reward of 50BTC per block. Back then when Satoshi mined it was possible to pack a ton of block rewards by mining with just a GPU that measures up to a good gaming pc.

In addition to all these, when Satoshi mined back then he scattered the mining rewards across different addresses which is partly also why you can't track the exact amount.