Topic: They still think crypto is easy to manipulate? - CEO Crunchbase - page 2. (Read 191 times)
February 17, 2023, 10:40:54 AM
Was it part of FED's plan to keep raising interest rates because they want to manipulate crypto?
It was successful in 2022 though. It's been the reason more people are waiting for Jerome's statement and what the market will do every time he says on the press con. Raising interest rates, however, doesn't just affect crypto but also the stock market. I think its different this time because of the looming debt default which investors are concerned about hedging from inflation because Quantitative easing may happen again in the coming months and the option is crypto apart from gold.
February 17, 2023, 10:21:44 AM
I still do not understand why these big names are making up risks that they can't calculate to make a point. You have no idea if bitcoin is more risky than some penny stock, first of all you do not know which penny stock we are talking about, there are less risky ones and there are more risky ones, you would have zero ideas how that would work.
Secondly when we are talking about penny stocks, we are talking about very little regulations and people could scam you very easily, literally "build" a company in a friends name, and make you invest into it as well. All in all bitcoin is much more safe, and it will stay that way forever, we are beyond that risk level now, been beyond that for years.
Secondly when we are talking about penny stocks, we are talking about very little regulations and people could scam you very easily, literally "build" a company in a friends name, and make you invest into it as well. All in all bitcoin is much more safe, and it will stay that way forever, we are beyond that risk level now, been beyond that for years.
February 16, 2023, 11:07:44 PM
Quote
Aside from Bitcoin, Ether, and a few other cryptocurrencies with a high trading volume, investing in crypto is "more risky" than buying penny stocks, according to Ronald AngSiy, COO of CEO.ca, who previously worked as a blockchain expert.
Bitcoin is extremely risky because it has yet to prove that its utility justifies its price. Speculation is all that supports the price right now and there is a very good possibility that the predicted utility of Bitcoin never materializes, and a collapse in its price would reflect that reality.
February 16, 2023, 08:45:12 PM
Despite the fact that FED is continuously increasing interest rates I believe bitcoin had null effects during the new year season. In fact opposite of that happened and bitcoin went up pretty good and it's not even full fist quarter.
Pick a graph, go to the dates the FED has released both inflation data (which was a reason for hiking rates) and interest rate itself, and see how Bitcoin has fared on those dates.
You have my thread here, 3 times in a row Bitcoin reacted to CPI data the moment it was released, and people anticipated a more drastic reduction of rate hikes. Go to each month on the 12 or 14 when the data was released and you're going to see the jump or the dump exactly at that hour.
As for this going up, it's exactly because of it, everyone anticipating a slowdown in FED's reaction.
However, his assumption is based on the volume alone and not the factual analysis. Isn't crypto is also a technological advancement that was invented very recently and also under stringent jurisdiction all over the world?
And still, when Elon fartered some non-sense on Twitter we went down the same way as Tesla shares, what dictates the price in crypto is the money that's involved and the profit people want to grab out of it, if they see a chance to make a quick 2x in a day they will forget everything about technological advancement and buy it or sell it like there is no tomorrow.
Another point he forgot to consider is, decentralization. How one can get to manipulate such market which is distributed through public ledger down to the pennies!
What part of decentralization stops a publicly traded coin from having the price manipulated?
If somebody would drop 3000BTC right now on Biannce it would rash the USDT pair nearly 5k, how could you stop it, and this despite a claimed 11 billion volume. Everything can be manipulated as long as you have the pockets for it, there is no such thing as an asset that would not feel the burn if somebody would dump a huge amount at the right time, and furthermore, this will be all done on centralized exchanges, the whole decentralization is useless when you rely on those for establishing the spot price.
February 16, 2023, 03:47:57 PM
since april 2022 we have seen some of this manipulation
/snip/
this is where whales have been making "futures options" bets on prices and then using a small amout of coin to daytrade arbitrage using bots to create the resistance to keep prices below certain lines. which by the endof 2022(new year of 2023) those whales relaxed their resistances to allow prices to re aclimate to prices over $17k
if you look at the monthly-3monthly charts you can see the1-2 weekly resistance lines of $21.5k. $23k. $24k $23k and this week appears to be a $25k resistance
/snip/
this is where whales have been making "futures options" bets on prices and then using a small amout of coin to daytrade arbitrage using bots to create the resistance to keep prices below certain lines. which by the endof 2022(new year of 2023) those whales relaxed their resistances to allow prices to re aclimate to prices over $17k
if you look at the monthly-3monthly charts you can see the1-2 weekly resistance lines of $21.5k. $23k. $24k $23k and this week appears to be a $25k resistance
I'd argue that we've been witnessing this since futures were introduced.
You should remember that in December of 2017 and January 2018 we were in the top of the bull market and at that exact time they opened the CME. The result of that was an instant crash of bitcoin's price and the beginning of these "bart simpson" price patterns. The same patterns with strangely suppressed levels that you're talking about.
I've talked about it years ago, that IMO rich people are using high liquidity and low risk of the CME to bet billions of dollars on the bitcoin market and they're teaming up with bitcoin traders and/or miners to coordinate with their orders.
Why would they do it?
Imagine that you've got a friend who has a lot of bitcoin left that he got cheap years ago and you both know he's going to sell at some point. He promises to let you know when he decides to sell, so you can bet on futures at that time, you promise to give him a share of your profit.
This system allows people who bought and would never buy bitcoin to profit from the same trade together. But it's worse, if introduced near or at the top of the bear market, futures incentivize shorting. You can be sure people who don't want bitcoin exposure, people who despite bull market don't own any bitcoin, will bet hard on it going down, and that's exactly what happened. The timing was perfect for short sellers, and that's why it was chosen by the CME.
February 16, 2023, 03:22:16 PM
Quote
investing in crypto is "more risky" than buying penny stocks
Dude is 100% correct here: crypto! Please note: he mentions crypto (shitcoins), not Bitcoin and I could agree with that.
As to the ability to manipulate Bitcoin, maybe he's also partially right: it can be done, but will be more problematic than manipulating any stock. Why? In order to dump coins, one must have coins. So you'll have to buy a boatload of Bitcoin and there is a possibility that scarcity will kick in and you won't like the price at some moment as more Bitcoiners will want to sell at a higher price or not sell at all. Amount of bitcoins on exchanges is also limited. Easier said than done.
February 16, 2023, 03:05:29 PM
because you can only buy tesla shares in whole units. it requires people to buy whole shares. thus to affect the tesla market means people need to buy alot of shares
also stocks and shares dont have "trading pairs" of swapping assets. thus cant offer internal arbitrage opportunity
however crypto
you can make a market price fluctuation by only needing to buy decimal amounts
and because markets in crypto have multiple trading pairs people can arbitrage those to cycle that same small allotment in circles and re-use it at low cost to ping another order processing.
the average bitcoin order is not 1btc or 100btc. its actually 0.025btc
when someone sells bitcoin to keep a price down. they can use that $ to then buy ethereum. then do ethereum->btc then sell that same allotment for dollar again
thus can generate alot of volume without spending more then 0.025btc
since april 2022 we have seen some of this manipulation
instead of the free market ups and downs pre april 2022
we can see on the 1 year market char the horizontal (unnatural) lines of price resistance holding and suppressing the price below certain lines
/\/\
\/\
~~\
~~~~\ /~
~~~~~~
this is where whales have been making "futures options" bets on prices and then using a small amout of coin to daytrade arbitrage using bots to create the resistance to keep prices below certain lines. which by the endof 2022(new year of 2023) those whales relaxed their resistances to allow prices to re aclimate to prices over $17k
if you look at the monthly-3monthly charts you can see the1-2 weekly resistance lines of $21.5k. $23k. $24k $23k and this week appears to be a $25k resistance
also stocks and shares dont have "trading pairs" of swapping assets. thus cant offer internal arbitrage opportunity
however crypto
you can make a market price fluctuation by only needing to buy decimal amounts
and because markets in crypto have multiple trading pairs people can arbitrage those to cycle that same small allotment in circles and re-use it at low cost to ping another order processing.
the average bitcoin order is not 1btc or 100btc. its actually 0.025btc
when someone sells bitcoin to keep a price down. they can use that $ to then buy ethereum. then do ethereum->btc then sell that same allotment for dollar again
thus can generate alot of volume without spending more then 0.025btc
since april 2022 we have seen some of this manipulation
instead of the free market ups and downs pre april 2022
we can see on the 1 year market char the horizontal (unnatural) lines of price resistance holding and suppressing the price below certain lines
/\/\
\/\
~~\
~~~~\ /~
~~~~~~
this is where whales have been making "futures options" bets on prices and then using a small amout of coin to daytrade arbitrage using bots to create the resistance to keep prices below certain lines. which by the endof 2022(new year of 2023) those whales relaxed their resistances to allow prices to re aclimate to prices over $17k
if you look at the monthly-3monthly charts you can see the1-2 weekly resistance lines of $21.5k. $23k. $24k $23k and this week appears to be a $25k resistance
February 16, 2023, 12:08:31 PM
I dont know if I am on the right track but I laughed very hard after reading the title of that news (referred below). I dont know why would he say that but article just comapres the whole stuff with Fed Interest rate hikes and how they are affecting the crypto market, however in reality it's just baseless assumption.
How can he say and compare between the market cap of Tesla stocks and crypto market and state that it's easy to manipulate because both of them have mere difference of 350 billions dollars. He thinks, 1 trillion dollar is very small market cap for the crypto and it could be easily manipulated.
However, his assumption is based on the volume alone and not the factual analysis. Isn't crypto is also a technological advancement that was invented very recently and also under stringent jurisdiction all over the world? It still makes up most of the market despite the fact that its being boxed up by governments.
Another point he forgot to consider is, decentralization. How one can get to manipulate such market which is distributed through public ledger down to the pennies!
Despite the fact that FED is continuously increasing interest rates I believe bitcoin had null effects during the new year season. In fact opposite of that happened and bitcoin went up pretty good and it's not even full fist quarter.
What market he is talking about ? Interest on the bitcoin is not getting increased?
How can he say and compare between the market cap of Tesla stocks and crypto market and state that it's easy to manipulate because both of them have mere difference of 350 billions dollars. He thinks, 1 trillion dollar is very small market cap for the crypto and it could be easily manipulated.
However, his assumption is based on the volume alone and not the factual analysis. Isn't crypto is also a technological advancement that was invented very recently and also under stringent jurisdiction all over the world? It still makes up most of the market despite the fact that its being boxed up by governments.
Another point he forgot to consider is, decentralization. How one can get to manipulate such market which is distributed through public ledger down to the pennies!
Quote
Aside from Bitcoin, Ether, and a few other cryptocurrencies with a high trading volume, investing in crypto is "more risky" than buying penny stocks, according to Ronald AngSiy, COO of CEO.ca, who previously worked as a blockchain expert.
"Any individual can manipulate crypto prices today because of how small the market cap is," he observed. "Once you get to the smaller cryptocurrencies, that's where it's significantly more risky than a penny stock for investors."
He highlighted that Tesla stock has a market cap of $650 billion, while the entire crypto market only has a market cap of $1 trillion, making crypto "easy" to manipulate.
"If you look at the price of a Binance token, versus the price of a Tesla stock, you'll see how small the crypto market is," he suggested. "It's hard, in such a small market, to say how what's happening in the world will directly affect prices today."
AngSiy spoke with David Lin, Anchor and Producer at Kitco News.
Bearish Crypto Trends in 2023
AngSiy suggested that there is "more pain ahead for crypto investors" in 2023, as the Federal Reserve continues to hike interest rates.
"How that pain is manifested is hard to exactly say, because the crypto market is so small that you could have one or two front-end entities manipulate the price of whole crypto market," he said.
He observed that since Bitcoin came into being in 2008, the crypto market has only experienced a "low interest-rate world," with the Effective Fed Funds Rate (EFFR) never rising beyond 2.5 percent until 2022. Currently, the EFFR is around 4.5 percent, and Fed Chairman Jerome Powell has stated that further hikes are expected until the Fed reaches a terminal rate of around 5 percent in 2023.
"We've never seen it [crypto] in a high and growing interest-rate world, which is what is happening right now," he said. "When you look at low interest-rate environments, it's easier for investors to borrow money, and then to take that money and then allocate a portion of it to crypto… now you're seeing money being pulled back from risk assets [like crypto] and either allocated to safer assets, or you're seeing risk assets being margin called."
"Any individual can manipulate crypto prices today because of how small the market cap is," he observed. "Once you get to the smaller cryptocurrencies, that's where it's significantly more risky than a penny stock for investors."
He highlighted that Tesla stock has a market cap of $650 billion, while the entire crypto market only has a market cap of $1 trillion, making crypto "easy" to manipulate.
"If you look at the price of a Binance token, versus the price of a Tesla stock, you'll see how small the crypto market is," he suggested. "It's hard, in such a small market, to say how what's happening in the world will directly affect prices today."
AngSiy spoke with David Lin, Anchor and Producer at Kitco News.
Bearish Crypto Trends in 2023
AngSiy suggested that there is "more pain ahead for crypto investors" in 2023, as the Federal Reserve continues to hike interest rates.
"How that pain is manifested is hard to exactly say, because the crypto market is so small that you could have one or two front-end entities manipulate the price of whole crypto market," he said.
He observed that since Bitcoin came into being in 2008, the crypto market has only experienced a "low interest-rate world," with the Effective Fed Funds Rate (EFFR) never rising beyond 2.5 percent until 2022. Currently, the EFFR is around 4.5 percent, and Fed Chairman Jerome Powell has stated that further hikes are expected until the Fed reaches a terminal rate of around 5 percent in 2023.
"We've never seen it [crypto] in a high and growing interest-rate world, which is what is happening right now," he said. "When you look at low interest-rate environments, it's easier for investors to borrow money, and then to take that money and then allocate a portion of it to crypto… now you're seeing money being pulled back from risk assets [like crypto] and either allocated to safer assets, or you're seeing risk assets being margin called."
Despite the fact that FED is continuously increasing interest rates I believe bitcoin had null effects during the new year season. In fact opposite of that happened and bitcoin went up pretty good and it's not even full fist quarter.
What market he is talking about ? Interest on the bitcoin is not getting increased?
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