Topic: Thing about price dropping of BTC that people dont get - page 2. (Read 3358 times)

Actually, as more company accept bitcoin for payment, the value might go up because it is then backed by real asset.

Hence the argument, wider adaptation implies higher price.

Gotta spend of them BTCs. Being rich doesn't just cut it. You need to buy yourself some nice things to impress the ladys

I guess a lot of people actually get this. And it is to quite a big extent true, I guess. This is actually one of the more widely used explanations for the current drop. But it generates a wider acceptance and exposure to the public, which is definitely good in the long term!

For now it is likely that:
1. in the short term more people are using their existing bitcoins to buy stuff at dell or other shops, instead of buying BTC first and then use them to go to dell.
2. Companies sell their BTC for fiat
3. Most customers won't replenish their BTC.


=> Negative effect on price

However this is just one of several components that effects price. Other are net investment, and miners.

When bitcoin adoption goes up people will replenish their BTC and new people will start using it.

ok so far sides are:
1. big comanies drop BTC to market right away - making price low
2. some people clam, there are people buying BTC just to buy something else

imo 1 is right, 2nd is... false.


give your opinions

I don't think people who have yet to adopt bitcoin will care that they can only buy ~.0333 BTC for $20 but rather they care about the fact that they can use it to send money almost for free.

i see not everybody accepts my statement. do u really believe big companies will hold BTC instead of selling?
theres even no wya for tchem to not sell sich without that they cant make invoices.

lol great one sided argument with lack of researching logic, psychology, or the other side.

imagine today some PERSON bought bitcoin for $600, and tomorrow they see a PC on dell for 1BTC, the customer will think long and hard and think, well the PC is worth $600 so the 1btc price is comparable. but then they are stuck with a PC which next year could resell for only $200, yet bitcoin could be worth $1200... and guess what customers wont spend their BTC right now they will either hold out or just use their FIAT.

ok fast forward a year. BTC is now $1200 the same customer thinks its really time to buy a PC,  and see's one worth $600, ok thats worth 0.5BTC which in reality, only cost him $300 a year ago.. so now he is getting tempted to buy it using his bitcoin. so now customers that bought btc the previous year will spend them, and the $1200 would decrease to maybe $1150 at most. and i will explain why

1. to make a price tank $200 in one day would need to have 10k coins hit the market in a VERY VERY short period. say within 5 hours at most, else the fluid nature of the markets will just correct itself
2. so that means dell would have to receive 20k customer orders within 5 hours (over 120k customer orders a day)
3. an average computer lasts 2-4 years before people upgrade.. soooooo

heres the bit that you will need to realise
for a endless rampage of customer orders to causing a massive price drop that does not correct itself.

if each person was to upgrade their computer every 2 years. (~700 days) it would require 120k people per day.. thus 84,000,000 people all choosing dell..

well im sorry but there are not 84million people choosing dell that are bitcoin holders aswell
im sorry that there are not 84million people holding bitcoin
im sorry that there are not 42million bitcoins and each bitcoin is in a clearly split 0.5btc per person for 84million
im sorry that there are not 84 million people and all of those people would hand thir entire bitcoin hoard to dell..

im sorry.

but dell is a big entity, i agree. but the actual 14million bitcoins in circulation, the actual bitcoin spread per person. and peoples human psychology to not want to give away all their bitcoin to dell. will mean that a price crash wont happen

if in a years time the price doubled and lets say 25% of people wanted to upgrade their pc because their bitcoin made profits and its time to upgrade anyway(average life cycle 2-4 years for a pc).

now i know that not everyone would choose dell, so please understand that the numbers i use are exaggerated to be high population numbers just to prove a point.

bitcoin holder population numbers equate that 25% to be 250k people ready to sell/spend.. so unless there is some hive mind, these 250k people wont all buy a dell in a 5 hour window, wont buy in a 10 hour window.. basically they will all have their own reasons to upgrade over maybe 6 months(after all thats the average 2-4 life cycle of a pc ).

which means daily spend at dell wont be 125k coins in 1 day.. but more like 2k customers a day(0.5btc each customer) so 1k coins... which calculates to less then a $50 price fluctuation.. if dell dumped the whole 1k coins at one go in a lump

but knowing the 10 minute transaction time of bitpay/coinbase.. this too will be spread over the whole day,as again people will buy at different times of the day and bitpay/coinbase would sale coins at the transaction time slowly throughout the day, making the price fluctuation only a few dollars, which allows for a easy self correction.

so now i hope you understand that even if EVERY bitcoin holder decided to buy a dell at some point (not gonna happen) and even if dell hoarded the coins and only sold their received coins in one lump each day, you would see a price difference of at most $50..

meaning the price rise to $1200 to incentivise spending instead of hoarding WONT cause a crash back to $600.. at most it would cause a drop of at most $50, but more than likely $2 drop, both of which would recover.

but those numbers were if EVERYONE was to want a dell over the next few years.. so even then $2 movements or $50 movements a day is exaggerated, with all the other brands out there. id say population choosing dell would be more along the lines of 20% not everyone.

making the exaggerated 25% willing to sell and of that 25%, 20% choosing dell.. basically only 5%.. so yea.. the numbers wont make a impact on bitcoin exchange prices.

Bitcoin is defiantly an investment and a currency. Right now we are investing in the future of bitcoin. Everyone from the people that make mining rigs, to the people that just buy bitcoin.
They are all making investments into the currency. Thats what keeps the value of bitcoin. No one wants to sell bitcoin for less than they paid for it. Generally most people wont sell a coin for less than it cost in electricity to get it. It just doesn't make sense to sell for less than you paid for it. I the market dipped to $200 mining would be absolutely worthless and everyone would dump their coins and the market would crash as people keep undercutting to sell off their bitcoin. 

Also not entirely true.  Overstock fella has gone on record as HODL'ing at least part of his bitcoin earnings

that's nonsense. there is no real reason for the need of another cryptocoin.. so who would invest all that money into it?

I've been saying this since I signed up.  The more merchants which accept BTC the more the price will go way down.  The merchants fire sell at the lowest prices to pay their employees, cover their overhead expenses and/or pay taxes.

Meanwhile while Bitcoin gets stuck in that limbo some coin with limited or no merchant adoption (like LTC or some other alternate) will eclipse Bitcoin.

i doubt anybody [well speaking in percent like 80%] bought BTC to buy on Dell. they rather held it since X time and now they dont have the coins anymore.

this is my own idea and i did not see anybody in trollbox with it. im actually preety transparent with who i am - u can check my signature im surely nobodys 2nd 3rd or 5th account. hell, read my story: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/my-30th-birthday-me-bitcoin-since-2010-592436 im into this since very early stage.
for me BTC is a currency so i dont mind the price drops but many people think of it as gold that will get price on the moon. really u believe Dell or other big copany holds any BTC? they drop tchem to market right away. more BTC sold = price smaller.

to buy the computer they first had to buy more bitcoin, the extra buying offsets dell's selling.
unless someone who was holding it as an investment suddenly decided he doesn't want the investment anymore and happened to want a dell laptop.

Well, then as the price keeps dropping from idiot corporations, rather than trading in dark pools, incurring massive slippage doing market sells (and eliminating the profit of their not having to deal with chargebacks), then more and more bitcoiners (who aren't idiot panic sellers) will choke off their supply output if they can't sell at their minimum target price. As demand increases and supply decreases, price will increase.

My BTC is effectively destroyed as far as the supply side is concerned, until I can start spending it at $1250/BTC.

Not necessarily.

I believe price went down after Dell because people bought Dell computers and Dell sold the BTC for cash.

So the BTC for sale rose higher than people wanting to buy, resulting in price drop.

BTC is still over-valued. If it was not over-valued, the price would not have had to drop like it did to absorb Dell accepting BTC and exchanging it for fiat.

OP says bitcoin is a currency and not an investment, and he's completely wrong. bitcoin is both a currency an investment. why do you think there are so many johns here who stalk the price? because they put in "x" amount and expect to cash out or spend their coins at a higher rate.

every bitcoin they sell someone had to buy, the net supply-demand change is zero.
every company that accepts payment in bitcoin raises the usefulness of bitcoin, thus more people will want to buy.