Topic: things are reaching a boiling point (Read 2828 times)

Both of you have what you think are good intentions, but you fail to recognize the most salient fact.

When you two are blind to the most salient fact, then all your other conclusions are unfortunately ignorant nonsense. Not be disrespectful, but you really need to pay attention.

If anyone can mutate the main blockchain, then the money is no longer immune to manipulation. And thus it is no longer a stable metric which achieves the absolutely critical goals of Nash's ideal money which is what gives crypto-currency is reason to exist in the first place.

I know this is very difficult for you to wrap your mind around, because you think adoption = success, but you are mathematically incorrect.

Read again very carefully the two posts I linked in the quote below. Click the links within those two post and click the links in the posts that you clicked to. In other words make sure you understand all the detailed reasoning.

In finance, the tail doesn't wag the dog, rather in finance it is always the stable value of the reserves which determines whether person who is providing the finance has an accurate mathematical estimate of the quality of the reserves and thus whether they are maximizing their ROI. And in finance, the most valuable set of reserves dominates any system with less value. Until you understand finance and understand how MPEx made his million "Buttcoins" by simply providing liquidity to the speculation power brokers, then you understand nothing about money.

So if you mutate Bitcoin, you remove all its value. Period. That is why the whales will never allow you to do so, and @dinofelis and I analyzed in great detail how small blocks enables the whales to destroy any miners who attempt to fork Bitcoin. You can't mutate Bitcoin, because the tail doesn't wag the dog. Also small blocks keeps the riff-raff out of Bitcoin, because democracy is a manipulation given that the cost of voting (i.e. politics) is not free. By allowing users to vote on Bitcoin's changes, it is the same as turning Bitcoin into a fiat system that will be manipulated into another hell. We've been there done that all over the world and totally fucked up our world with it. We can instead put that clusterfuck into Litecoin and then the discipline can be maintained with Bitcoin's financial dominance of Litecoin.

There is a way to get scaling and that is to mutate Litecoin. And approximating 9/10th of the value created by scaling Litecoin will end up back in Bitcoin (after Litecoin's price rises back to $100 since it is so highly undervalued given it is the only option for moving forward). So there is absolutely no justifiable reason for your idiocy and squabbling. It is pure ignorance, that's all. Please rectify your ignorance so we can move forward.

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If you hold private keys, nothing changes. If you have Bitcoin IOU on exchange and the exchange dont handle the situation well, you can try to sue the exchange. There is nothing like promised return for your investment in Bitcoin though, prices going up or down based on supply and demand only.

There are implications. If I invest in Euro, the fund manager can not convert the fund to Yen. That is not what I invested in, and that is not what I was promised in return for my investment.

Just to side-step here, I am of the opinion this form has gone a bit nutty on this whole fork partisanship and ideology.

Pledging to commit basically crimes and exploits is a tad extreme for a mere cryptocurrency. Like most early adopters I feel my allegiance going towards this new concept, the anonymous decentralized peer to peer market and economy.

The meme has sprouted and the revolution begun. Advocating for the founder's "view" is almost laughable, satoshi would have never thought of such widespread adoption and implying so is absurd.
Conservationism in revolution is an oxymoron. As much as you can be emotionally attached with whatever made early adopters millionaires and gave you a platform for incredible and astonishing innovation, the technology is bound to become obsolete and if you don't simply move on you're in fault...

Please all bear in mind I am not stating this is the end, or idk giving technical opinions in evaluation of the bitcoin's intrinsic value, forks or whichever.
All I'm stating that as sacks of silver carried on your belt, bitcoin too will one day fade away in favor of something more efficient.

This is not how Bitcoin works, miners are free to mine whatever they want, investors who just invested and holding can only choose when to sell, so no change for them. If it worked as you claim, Core could be sued for crippling the Bitcoin because many who own Bitcoin cannot use it anymore.

changing bitcoin from p2p cash as envisioned by Satoshi into a settlement network, nah thats not changing it at all

No, they are not changing the commodity, and they are open about what they are doing.

From what I hear, there could be legal implications to pool mining as well

cool story.

can i sue Blockstream if Bitcoin loses marketshare to Ethereum
due to the high fees they are promoting?

so this was all a big joke by f2pool..haha very funny, more stalling, great...

I wonder if BU is aware of the legal implications of a hard fork, forcing a community of investors to accept an incompatible change to the technology they invested in.

If BU succeeds, every Bitcoin holder can probably sue them for their losses.

fiat paper funny money isn't a real commoddity either but yet the world calls it money

@r0ach was already referred to the relevant work of Nash and he is quite proficient at ignoring the reality:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18394149
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.18422543

Because @r0ach is an obstinate fool who wears a tinfoil hat blindfold that prevents him from comprehending (and perhaps even reading) what Nash wrote, especially what Nash wrote about what makes gold valuable and why it is not as ideal as Bitcoin.

My response to Anonymints claim where he says bitcoin is money and I say it's only a currency:

The scaling issue shouldn't be outright dismissed. I'm basing this conclusion on the huge amount of comment's I've read regarding this ordeal, which I know aren't the best resource but offer a wide scope and some times decently stated points. Furthermore what convinced me the most among my research is this video: https://youtu.be/rZi86_ovB3Y which basically outlines the fork as a mere attack on the network rather than an economically lucrative move.
As I see it, the more shaken the community and the market, the more their (The malignant Illuminaty's) goal is achieved.

I do comprehend to the extent I can, that forks comport a variety of issues and are technically, economically and socially inconceivable. Nevertheless the whole argument of "Satoshi's design" doesn't quite stand when stood in opposition of possible government or corporate interests. An investment in view of destabilizing the concept rather than anything else.

Just to add: I admit my superficial knowledge and ignorance of in depth implications. It will be my pleasure to do some more research especially in your quality posts.

There's a very steady stream of updates from Core. They've also provided the protocol change that they think is best. It's sitting there waiting to be used right now.

There will never be a middle ground.

Correct, nothing will ever change on Bitcoin. But Litecoin...


Entirely incorrect.

Bitcoin will never be updated and doesn't need to be updated.

Please read my posts in this thread and click the links do some extensive reading and thinking. You will learn about the absolute importance of Litecoin for Bitcoin's future.

Until you re-orient your thinking to the reality, you will be hopelessly confused.

No disrespect intended. I am trying to guide you to the truth, but you have to be willing to click and read a lot.


Waiting to be used on Litecoin. Never will be activated on Bitcoin. Satoshi designed the game theory of Bitcoin so that the vested interests would never be able to agree on modifying the protocol. Otherwise Bitcoin would have no value as power broker money. Please learn that the tail does not wag the dog in finance. Go read please.

I've awoken from my inactivity period to take my part in this pursuit.
Although economically we all understand BU has and never shall have any standing, a fork is incumbent and it's outcome is still obscure.
Core hasn't been keeping the system updated, and their refusal of further updates and generally increasing the Block size is alarming and drives support away. The bitcoin unlimited bound failure doesn't lift any responsibility away from the core devs...
That said, I am here to pledge my computing power and spare time onto the complete disruption of the forked blockchain, transaction, nodes and miners. I will play my role, when the day comes I expect others to join me.

Well, at some point, they need to leave the middle ground and make a decision. I think it will be better if this will made as soon as possible. People are getting tired because of these and it will not be healthy if they will drag this for so long. Or maybe, they are just playing with both BU and SegWit while at the end of the day, nothing will happen? 

You apparently don't understand finance. The tail doesn't wag the dog.

You guys don't read all of my posts, thus you force me to post copies of my posts all over the place:


I explained why days ago. But y'all don't pay attention.

Any way, I don't mind providing you the link above.