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Topic: Thinking of buying BTC on the London Stcok Exchange (Read 367 times)

copper member
Activity: 126
Merit: 6
Just buy Spot Bitcoin on a reputable exchange & withdraw it to a hardware wallet. If you are even semi tech/computer literate you can manage to do this & custody your own Bitcoin, without the worry of third party custody failure. Take control of your own money, I don’t trust any of these companies or products to hold a significant amount of my Bitcoin.

Agreed.
You should be the only party in control of most of your assets to be able to choose what to do in the future.
Otherwise, this right would be taken from you. Not today, but someday, it may happen.
legendary
Activity: 2870
Merit: 7490
Crypto Swap Exchange
why
Quote
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Even ones which legally registered and comply with government regulation?

I refer you to one of my other posts and that is about coinbase charging over 3% = 50p a deal

Your BBcode is broken, so i missed your reply earlier. If your main problem is high fee rate, how about trying different cryptocurrency exchange?
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 2924
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So on an investment side of things (and not day to day spending)

I see hat the LSE now sell BTC on there exchange in the following tickers

Code   Instrument name   Price
ABTC   21SHARES BITCOIN ETP   28.37 GBP
AETH   21SHARES ETHEREUM STAKING ETP   34.24 GBP
BTCU   21SHARES BITCOIN ETP   36.05 USD
CBTC   21SHARES BITCOIN CORE ETP   20.06 GBP

Has anyone ever done it like this and used a stock exchange to buy there from

How safe is it?
How dose the price differ from BTC its self?
What commision do they charge?
And when you purchase this way, do you actully own BTC or is it a futures market?

Thanks
The main reason you should ask yourself is why you are looking to buy a subproduct of bitcoin instead of buying the original. Is it because you just want to make some quick money out of it? Is it because you find too complicate to buy on an exchange and then safely store them? I understand your questions are different but the fact that you don't even know that of course you're not buying actual bitcoins is worrying to be honest.
legendary
Activity: 3346
Merit: 1618
#1 VIP Crypto Casino
Just buy Spot Bitcoin on a reputable exchange & withdraw it to a hardware wallet. If you are even semi tech/computer literate you can manage to do this & custody your own Bitcoin, without the worry of third party custody failure. Take control of your own money, I don’t trust any of these companies or products to hold a significant amount of my Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 2870
Merit: 7490
Crypto Swap Exchange
Even ones which legally registered and comply with government regulation?
They can say that they are good, safe and careful in management of their company treasury and customer fund as well as don't misuse customer funds without agreement of users.

But only God can know what they are actually doing. FTX and Sam Bankman-Fried said everything were good, Terra and Do Kwon told the same, but both FTX and Terra collapsed very quickly.

Trust Bitcoin Spot ETFs if people distrust accuracy and importance of "It is not your private keys, it is not your bitcoin!"

I get your point. But to be clear, i asked that question to OP since he seems to trust 3rd party (ETP or ETP in this case) and i wonder if that also applies to centralized exchange that usually allow you withdraw Bitcoin to our own wallet.
copper member
Activity: 280
Merit: 5
Even ones which legally registered and comply with government regulation?
They can say that they are good, safe and careful in management of their company treasury and customer fund as well as don't misuse customer funds without agreement of users.

But only God can know what they are actually doing. FTX and Sam Bankman-Fried said everything were good, Terra and Do Kwon told the same, but both FTX and Terra collapsed very quickly.

Trust Bitcoin Spot ETFs if people distrust accuracy and importance of "It is not your private keys, it is not your bitcoin!"

Agreed.
The officials are there to be the signs of stability of any entity / company, whereas, in reality, it can all be much different in perspective.
So it's better to be the one in charge rather than the institution in question, in my opinion.
full member
Activity: 868
Merit: 202
Wheel of Whales 🐳
Because the bitcoin exchanges are all scam artists!

why do you say that? so far i have used centralized exchanges to trade and transact bitcoin or other assets, and until now i have not found any problems with their services. i don't know how your experience is using exchanges, but your statement that exchanges are scams is completely baseless and just a personal opinion.

and personally compared to buying bitcoins on the stock market, it is better for me to buy them on exchanges like binance. at least when i buy on the exchange i can withdraw to my wallet and manage it myself, whereas when you buy on the stock market you only buy paper and you can't transfer it to your wallet.
jr. member
Activity: 27
Merit: 0
I think buying bitcoin through the LSE's ETPs is a pretty safe and regulated way to invest without the hassle of managing a crypto wallet. But from what I understand, you don't actually own the bitcoin, you're just holding shares in a product that tracks its price. The price might be slightly different because of fees and there are also commissions and management costs to consider.
?
Activity: -
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May I ask why buy in stock exchange though??? Why not just buy in a crypto exchange if you really want a centralized authority holding your coin
Because the bitcoin exchanges are all scam artists!
[/quote]

Even ones which legally registered and comply with government regulation?
[/quote]

I refer you to one of my other posts and that is about coinbase charging over 3% = 50p a deal
?
Activity: -
Merit: -

In short, you won't be able to withdraw that bitcoin, you are just able to cash out the value that's gained, or lose the value in case it drops.

Been down this road/ discusion before with gold silver ETFs. That you can not actully book an appointment with the vault to cash your ar of gold and collect it or have it delivered

Again; Do you own a share of this and dose your ETF company own bitcoin that is fractionlized for you on your behalf? I mean did they initally go out and buy bitcoin them selfs?
?
Activity: -
Merit: -
Has anyone ever done it like this and used a stock exchange to buy there from
There's no advantageous reason for me to buy BTC ETF where BTC is treated like Jpeg and nothing will change that.

How safe is it?
It depends on what you mean by safe. The whole investment is controlled by the institutional investors, and the tax aspect of it is always taken care of.

How dose the price differ from BTC its self?
You're buying the company BTC jpeg instead of the real Bitcoin.
Is that a it like the DOE straw man thing?


And when you purchase this way, do you actully own BTC or is it a futures market?
Both now and in the future. This investment purchase don't make you a real BTC owner, or holder.
[/quote]
But dose the ETF hold the bitcoin (and hence the keys for it)?
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 662
The OP is getting into the professional lineup, which I think is not suitable for him right now. Firstly, you cannot hold the actual Bitcoin, and secondly, there are higher fees and commissions from brokers, which cause high costs. Instead, he can buy it directly from exchanges and own it in a wallet. Moreover, the price is actual, and he doesn't have to pay any commissions or fees.
It means that people who buy the ETP version is simply dumb because they take more risk and get lower return, it's only make the government and the brokers get rich because they make money from the commission, fees and the price difference.

It's not that hard to protect your Bitcoin alone, just buy a trusted hardware wallet like trezor, then you're fine.
hero member
Activity: 448
Merit: 560
Mia's Creative
The concept of buying bitcoins off the network by literally buying some other asset or token that gets pegged to it isn't something I fancy. Whether stocks or pegged and wrapped tokens, I really don't think they are worth it. Yes from the context of your post op you seem very much interested in capital gains and ROI but in my opinion the fiat increase you get when you buy some bitcoins and price pumps actually cuts it already.

Aside from all these , you put your coins on a 50 / 50 risk because you actually don't own those coins fully since you don't have a direct control like a seed phrase or private key to spend them at any instant. To put it into perspective you have to first claim ownership of those coins via some verification on what ever platform that anchors it before you could spend.
?
Activity: -
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Not your keys, not your coins my friend.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1018
Even ones which legally registered and comply with government regulation?
They can say that they are good, safe and careful in management of their company treasury and customer fund as well as don't misuse customer funds without agreement of users.

But only God can know what they are actually doing. FTX and Sam Bankman-Fried said everything were good, Terra and Do Kwon told the same, but both FTX and Terra collapsed very quickly.

Trust Bitcoin Spot ETFs if people distrust accuracy and importance of "It is not your private keys, it is not your bitcoin!"
legendary
Activity: 2870
Merit: 7490
Crypto Swap Exchange
As to the price, I guess the crypto market and the stock market more or less mirror each other's Bitcoin price, but you'll probably spend more on fees and commissions when buying on the stock market.

More importantly, not all ETF or ETP open 24/7. That means you could miss timing to buy/sell Bitcoin.

May I ask why buy in stock exchange though??? Why not just buy in a crypto exchange if you really want a centralized authority holding your coin
Because the bitcoin exchanges are all scam artists!

Even ones which legally registered and comply with government regulation?
sr. member
Activity: 728
Merit: 300
Love Bitcoin🖤
By the way, are individuals or the retail market allowed to buy Bitcoin on LSE? Last I heard only professionals are allowed to do so.
Yes, you heard right; only professionals are allowed to buy BTC ETP on LES, according to the UK Financial Conduct Authority. The main aim is to protect beginners or less experienced individuals from potential risks, which is why they allow only professional retailers. Here is the link

The OP is getting into the professional lineup, which I think is not suitable for him right now. Firstly, you cannot hold the actual Bitcoin, and secondly, there are higher fees and commissions from brokers, which cause high costs. Instead, he can buy it directly from exchanges and own it in a wallet. Moreover, the price is actual, and he doesn't have to pay any commissions or fees.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1860
Anyway, in terms of safety, it's safe in a way because you're doing it on a highly regulated and compliant platform, but unsafe in a way because you don't actually own any real Bitcoin, only a kind of ETP. So, you aren't actually in control of your Bitcoin.
Do you think the stock broker owns any bit coin though? meaning they own the bitcoin and you dont they just owe it to you like banks and fiat currency. Or is it just a futures market thing where there is no actual Bit Coin in there?

We're talking here specifically of ETN because that's the kind of ETP that's being offered on LSE. I guess the general description of an ETN is that it is unsecured. Meaning to say, it doesn't own the asset it is tracking.

However, there are actually Bitcoin ETNs offered in the market that are fully collateralized. I've read, for example, that VanEck's Bitcoin ETN is 100% fully-backed by actual coins kept in cold storage.

Furthermore, I'm referring you to the Crypto ETN Admission Factsheet, a document which specifically outlines the admission process of crypto ETNs on LSE. It says there that crypto ETNs, to be admitted, should be "physically backed" or that it "has Bitcoin or Ethereum underlying cryptoassets", 90% at least.

Finally, of course, you will have to do some due diligence as to the issuer of the specific ETN you have your eyes on, its fees and whatnot.
sr. member
Activity: 2828
Merit: 357
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
I checked OP post history and it seems like he had some terrible experiences with exchanges, at least from his perspective. That's probably why he wants to stick with what usually works for him, in this case stock exchange.
okay that makes sense but what is it that doesn’t work with exchanges that works for him in stock exchanges? maybe op is just not using the right platforms even as a beginner i quickly learned about exchanges and never encountered any issues so maybe it’s just the specific platform
legendary
Activity: 3080
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
-cut-
How safe is it?
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What do you mean by safety here?

It's not safe in cases you are in some blacklisted person that British government can confiscate your assets from. Or if you are afraid to become this blacklisted person in the future.

It's safer than storing then safety custody, because they have way more security behind them then you could ever provide. But just acknowledge the fact that they aren't holding bitcoin either. So you aren't buying bitcoin, but synthetic representations of bitcoin.

In short, you won't be able to withdraw that bitcoin, you are just able to cash out the value that's gained, or lose the value in case it drops.
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