Topic: This forum will need explicit rules on the use of AI. (Read 686 times)

I initially receive same error JSON message with Firefox. But after i disable add-ons which block ads/tracker and set "Enhanced Tracking Protection" to "Standard", i can subscribe to the newsletter.

I get: "{"error":"Please enable JavaScript to subscribe to this newsletter."}" when trying to sign up for the waiting list that appears in this link, using Safari 12. Is that normal? JS is obviously enabled in my Safari.

As of 4 days ago there is.
https://gptzero.substack.com/
fight fire with fire.
This would not be a solution for bct though.
but something like it maybe I don't see forum admin investing in this forum like that,
I once knew a guy that said people using his name to monetize their own initiatives generally monetized his with no input.

I've had a lot of bad luck with the https://huggingface.co/openai-detector AI generated post detector because it produces random results and the prediction of the same post changes over time. I tried it with an organic local post from a Naija board and got a 98% success rate. I scanned your post just to be sure, and it's 93.13% AI generated  . The site states that results from 50 tokens are more reliable, and I received 93 tokens as a result of your post. The website is untrustworthy and cannot be used to determine what an AI post is. Just another time bomb waiting to cause damage.

Damn! Even my spidey senses wouldn't have been able to catch that one. 

If you can really parse human bullshit from AI bullshit, do you think all the posts on this account are human? Sometimes it seems to me that AI can write more reasonable posts, but in this case, I doubt who is who. When I read his posts, I involuntarily begin to yawn. In addition to the fact that this account writes two or three posts in a row, the meaning of his posts also makes you think about a very bad software bot.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/sakanwa-3380307

Thanks for the link. I checked the post. So it turns out that this account is an AI.

You guys are worrying too much, I would say.

Artificial Intelligence might be quite impressive nowadays but the very core of this forum's member ranking system is highly dependent on interpersonal and group relationships. Sure, AI can generate generic texts and at times, might seem extremely human, but ask yourselves, would you really not be able to tell your internet forum friend was an AI with nothing of interest to say? No life, no thoughts, no ideas. Just impressive algorithms.

I might get duped once or twice into believing an AI post came from a real person, but there is no way I would become interested in reading an AI's dull, generic drivel. Least of all, would I befriend it.

Yes, but all the objections you raise sound to me like the same objections that were raised against automatic translators, which are now widely used.

Are you sure that the ChatGPT of 2024, 2025 etc. will be as monotonous and easy to catch as the current one? The first versions of automatic translators were laughable, or think about the first versions of cell phones, or the first years of the Internet.

Basically I was trying to tell you that the monotony of AI systems like ChatGPT will make it easy to spot all the people writing with AIs because they will sound almost exactly the same. And the effort required to rewrite the text to make it unique for each user will be so tedious that people will either abandon this whole enterprise or just copy-paste AI text regardless and face the consequences relevant  for their particular circumstances-e.g. if they are sig campaign members they are all thrown out.

I have no problem with AI accounts used for information or humor purposes, I actually made one myself on the Off Topic board.

The use of AI to generate material for forums is highly questionable and unethical. Instead of putting in the necessary effort and creativity, some people rely on artificial intelligence to do the work for them, resulting in a lack of originality and authenticity.

This is not only lazy and unoriginal, but it also constitutes stealing someone else's ideas or work and passing it off as your own. This is a serious breach of ethics and integrity that should not be condoned or encouraged in any way. Furthermore, using AI to generate material can be misleading and confusing for readers. It is essential for forum participants to know the source and authenticity of the information they are consuming, and AI-generated material does not provide this transparency.

As an AI hater, I strongly discourage the use of artificial intelligence to generate material for forums. It undermines the integrity of the forum and the value of original, authentic material. We should prioritize originality and effort in our online communication and not rely on shortcuts such as AI-generated material.

😅🤣





In red is what I did, it's fun to use it against itself

The growth of AI is really getting out of the hand and already one of the forum user highlighted the reply created by bot when the question has been asked and its not that bad and it doesn't create any suspicion until we spend time and detect the actual source of the content because what AI doing is simply gathering information all over the internet and try to provide a reasonable answer.

AI should be treated as bot account if someone is really willing to use bot account for any such purpose and it should be exempted from signatures so abuser won't get benefits of signature campaigns.

Yep, this is why the @OP creating this thread.

However I think it will depends on the managers and merit sources, merit sources need to spend more time to look the post history before merit them and managers need to pay attention to read the quality post and not only from the merit they got in last 120 days.

But don't expect anything if you're talk about bounty hunters, it's already cursed lol.

Have you even read what I wrote? It seems you have been busy again.


To report them for what? Having multiple accounts is not forbidden.


Read again, and please next time you quote me try to (agree or) refute what I say. Not to apparently refute what I haven't said.

That won't work. All those accounts will get the same fingerprint which will make it easy for anti-multiaccounters to catch and report them. AI is not known to write uniquely (I mean, you can get it to write in some weird tone but at that point, everyone will know it's a bot).

I suggest a form of text CAPTCHA where a certain type of question is asked that only humans know the answer to. For example: "why did dasher lose his funds?"

I agree with this, and expressed it in another thread, but with a nuance. It is not simply an "AI account", it would be an account created by a Bitcointalk member who uses the AI but tweaks the texts that the AI writes, adapting them accordingly. In other words, it would be using the AI's leverage. It would be a symbiosis between the Bitcointalk member and the IA, so that a new account can be created that writes faster and at least in some cases better.

If it is seen to work, this could result in being able to manage maybe 4 accounts instead of 2 as many have and get paid for them. Obviously, without being a moron by exchanging merits between the accounts or joining the same campaign, etc.

This is all hypothesis and I am not sure if this could be really the case. I would like to try it but I do too many things already.

I would bet that there is currently someone in the top 50 of merit earned who is testing this.

Can't wait when purely AI account reach high Position (rank) and would be accepted into a signature campaign. It would be one small step for an account, one giant leap for AI.

And seriously, we should start thinking about it as about realistic scenario - 10 years ago the discussion we have now have been seen as an abstract academic dispute without any relation to real life.

I also think that forums will be affected by growing popularity of AI and chatgpt. Especially a forum like bitcointalk where users are rewarded for posts if they are in signature campaign. Some people will try to game the system. There can be arrangements made to combat this but it will be huge load on forum staff and resources.

The same way you wouldn't like to communicate with a person that doesn't write correct grammar or keeps repeating phrases in their content is how AI writing works, users vary. If a person is skilled; knows how to utilize AI like chatGPT their response will be as good as that of a good writer. Additionally, the app can be asked to insert synonyms to a keyword to avoid repetitions. Also, every technology offers a new opportunity for users on the internet, in future skilled Chatgpt users can get hired to do a great writing job including editing.

Moreover, you are not communicating with a bot, as an AI doesn't have a brain it's controlled by humans, it just hurts that the next person is using a third-party app to communicate with you making it easier for him to write, while you chat genuinely with your brain. However, it's sad that AI is hitting hard on the internet, and mainly focusing the heat on writing communities, but in the long run, nothing can be done about it, imagine ChatGPT has over a million users within a short period. It's a technology that needs adoption, and writers don't seem to like the idea, as if it'll take their jobs from them, which is not true, contrarily it'll make their jobs easier.

In a forum like this, it'll be hard not to detect AI-generated contents if the user didn't amend it, but if the changes are correctly done Chatgbt can be said to be used for research purposes - easing the research process for a user. If he edits and publishes the thread, it's not completely AI-generated. You can say to be communicating with a bot if the user published the generated post without proofreading it. Moreover, those answers provided by chatGPT are generated from google, and plagiarism detection all depends on the user and the kind of query they gave to the bot. Like the moderator said; if the user is skilled with the use of AI that it doesn't break any rules then it is not a problem in any form.

I'd suggest that an AI detector is added to the forum to help users crosscheck if a thread is poorly generated by an AI, such a thread can be reported to mods pointing out how it broke a rule in the forum. It'll ease the stress for moderators and keep the community as clean as usual. Finally, what need is it to pay to write in the forum? soon these AI writing apps will get expensive to use regarding the speed people are signing up to utilize them.

I will not disclose any accurate source for my claim but there is actually no way to find that out if someone is using AI, since there are services out there for free making and editing your AI generated content in a way to avoid 99+% detection.
IMO anyone caught using AI generated content as their own should be banned, I wouldn't want to engage in a discussion where the other person is not really a person.

We want to engage and discuss with real people with their own real life achievements. Just as an example, I would like to read the posts of gmaxwell to know him better and more, just imagine if I wanted to follow him as a role-model and later find out or not to find out he was actually an AI behind the account.

What I don't like about this subject is the fact that AI could greatly influence us in the long term without us realizing it.

How are you going to identify if the user is using AI in his posts? How is anybody going to do that? Do people even have that much free time?

I think whether it is against the rules or nor won't change a thing. You can even command AI to create unique posts.

You just tell it to write something about something, give the post length etc and it is going to make you one.

AI will own everybody.

The GPT-2 you provided only works with ChatGPT generated posts and the site prediction is inaccurate, I tried the site twice with original local Naija posts and received two different predictions, ChatGPT is not the only AI-generated platform that people use to post on forums. It is unreliable to use https://huggingface.co/openai-detector. We are only going to force traffic on the site to make them more money nothing more.

I agree. Whether we like it or not, AI content is not necessarily plagiarized. As long as we don't have duplicate content, which might occur if a large number of users use a specific platform on a specific question such as "Should I invest in Bitcoin?" it doesn't do much harm on the forum if used in moderation. Imagine 90% of users being practically bots; that would be disastrous.

Campaign managers should prohibit the usage of AI, which would actually discourage users from using AI in their posts.

If people are just pretending to agree or disagree with something they read by copying the replies of an AI, they are basically just faking it until they make it. And that is not exactly the best way to build a genuine community, is it? It is like trying to win a game of poker with a deck of all jokers. Sure, you might get lucky and fool someone for a while, but eventually, your bluff will be called. So let us all agree to just be real with each other and let us celebrate and embrace our individual differences, and create a space where we can all feel valued and special, like a royal flush!

Substantial edits to AI generated text can no longer be classified as such, but as written by a human. Thus, managers should choose a confidence score that will withstand "lazy adjustments" to punctuation and typos to try to drop the score down.

Of course, if you see a post full of typos, then it's not AI generated and in most campaigns the person writing such posts would be considered incompetent and thrown out.

It's useful, but it's not really a perfect tool to detect AI generated text, see below:

First I got result 0.80% real.
Why we need to care with 1xbit scam manager and other managers that get payment with worthless tokens? they're a rubbish in this forum and there's no way to control them except create self moderated threads to delete their low quality post or just report to moderators.

I am sure good campaign managers who care about quality will, but I am not so sure about campaigns like 1xBit and maybe some others.

On a more serious note, campaign managers should exclude AI-generated posts from the payroll as soon as possible, otherwise this feature will be abused as ChatGPT sometimes makes incorrect answers.

Campaign managers: Use this tool to detect AI-generated text: https://huggingface.co/openai-detector. I recommend considering anything with a score of 90%+ as AI-generated.

Question is, where does the AI get it's ideas/ content from?
If we see a someone praising bitcoin and LN to later find out it was AI, who's ideas was posted?

A forum's community needs genuine discussions, what if I used the AI but didn't really agreed with the results but posted it anyways to eaither. e.g., farm merits or earn easy sig money? the spirit of humanity will be lost if that happens.

they are in the same category, but in my personal opinion it makes things worse in the case of account farming and account abuse.
If the bots/artificial intelligence participate around here undetected, it could degenerate the forum, the campaign participation and become a tool for shady people to grow accounts automatically to put them for sale, because in the end merit senders might see no much of a difference between an actual human being and the AI.

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I agree, for the reasons previously presented.
We do not need an Artificial intelligence pretending to be a human around here, imho.

Well look at my difficulty thread  if it says any are AI it is not accurate as I do not do AI and I think no one else does so on that thread.

I think the problem is if you put those posts  at least 10% would test as AI.

In order to not test as AI you need a lot of original thought vs combining 3 posts and voicing an opinion on them.

If you were to go to my difficulty thread

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/2022-diff-thread-5378628

There is a ton of variation on a common theme. (the difficulty)

for instance

Quote

https://www.bitrawr.com/difficulty-estimator

Latest Block: ? ? ?

blah blah blah
blah blah blah

..... quote


happens over and over and over in that thread.

It is not ai or google but it is a lead source of DIFF stats

and will be repeated thousands of times.

I would love to see how that thread does on AI testing.

we have done them for years
2022
2021
2020 and many more

It all depends on how and where the AI-generated content is being used. If you are posting AI-generated content and pretending it is your own original work, then you are committing plagiarism. Plagiarism is the act of presenting someone else's work as your own without proper attribution. But, if you are using AI as a tool to help you develop and improve your own original text, then I do not think it is considered plagiarism. For example, Google Translate is an example of AI-generated content, and grammar checkers like Grammarly rely on AI to generate content. It is hard to make a clear distinction between these modern tools and define what is allowed in the forum and what is not in a clear-cut manner.

Alright. I'll see if I can contract Aaron Schwarzenegger to build me one last Terminator for this purpose.

Do I understand correctly that this can be regarded as an approval of the use of AI on the bitcointalk? If AI is not forbidden, then using it doesn't violate forum rules, right?.

Will the administration make changes to the forum rules regarding the use of AI or will it leave everything as it is? It seems to me that it would be good to clarify this either in the form of a rule change / edit or at least an informational post for forum users.

Is there any bot that works in a realistic way so that it shares replies that it is difficult for the average user, mod or campaign manager to distinguish from the posts made by humans?
In the sense of high quality, adding good information, well-written, and not words that were copied and pasted with the addition of some general sentences?


Generally, it is easy to ban these bots account with the spam, or zero/low value rule.

Open AI is seemingly working on a solution to digitally watermark their outputs, through a kind of "unnoticeable secret signal in its choices of words, which you can use to prove later that, yes, this came from GPT" (see this blog):

I’ve read, though I couldn’t find the original source (i.e. team declarations), that Chat-GPT can’t plagiarize per se (the language model generates the text using a probability for the next best word to use, based on the prior words it has already used), although there could be a fortuity chance of it happening. Many of the posts we read seem to me, from a reader’s point of view, a compendium of text-spinning ideas. Though that is not what it’s really doing, the probability of the next word to use is derived from the model created through the training data, and that is inevitable a subjacent reference to all the text it provides.

On the other hand, even if the text is comprehensive and aligned somewhat with what the average Joe may be able to come up with, the poster conceptually (in my book) plagiarized the output from Chat GPT, without giving credits to the source of the text’s generation, trying to pass the text on as his own.

I totally agree with allowing technology to thrive as long as it is not contravening any of the forum rules, for what it is worth, it could actually be of benefit to the forum and improve quality of discussions.

Has the admins considered the issue of people running the replies of certain high quality members here on the forum through an AI programming and they push out posts similar to the person's style?
Here is a thread on reddit^[1], which discusses how this affects artists and I do not think it is limited to only art.

If someone created an AI which posts like theymos for example or satoshi based on their post history, would that raise brows?

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/y6eiyq/artists_say_ai_image_generators_are_copying_their/

- Jay -

It's going to be difficult to prove the plagiarism, and spam can reach very large volumes. I don't want to have to doubt if each post is genuine. Imagine what happens when someone has a bot that earns him signature payments by asking questions on the tech boards.

Pretending the AI's text was created by you is the plagiarism. It doesn't matter where the AI got it.

I could agree with this, if the post makes it clear it's created by an AI. Without that, if I post something created by an AI, my cat, or a sweatshop filled with elves, it's not my own creation. That makes it plagiarism.

That's irrelevant when forum itself allow you to use more than 1 account as long as you are good with forum rules. Why are you bringing the economical benefits here? If someone is active here for economical benefit only and that's from 1 account only, both he and owner of 5 accounts are in same category of course.

But it will be almost impossible to detect if the texts get a little human touch lol. I'm observing one user, pretty much sure texts are AI generated but they are not such low value either.

All that matters is that those users don't break the rules. If they don't, then yes, there's nothing against them operating several AI powered accounts though at that point, I'd be more worried about that AI doing things outside Bitcointalk as opposed to farming signature campaigns.

Just posting something on-topic , semi-correct and coherent doesn't necessarily mean the post isn't low value. That quality is what I feel a lot of AI generated content is gonna lack (and yes I'm aware of the recemt developments in that area).

So, in theory if someone somehow managed to farm, let's say 5 accounts up to Full member and Senior member and somehow implemented an AI for those accounts to interact around here while joined a signature campaign or a bounty, so the single person behind those accounts can get all the economical benefits, that would be acceptable as long as the quality of those posts are good enough and on-topic? Right?

AI is not plagiarism.

Many people do not understand plagiarism.

You need a new rule to ban AI or to list the post as AI generated.

I would prefer making sure All AI is simply marked as such.

And all unmarked AI that is found is banned for hiding the fact it is banned.


My reasoning is if I do a google search and list the info here as a googled found item it is okay to do this.

Thus if AI is a better google allow it if marked as such.


@ mprep I guess simply saying it is ai is much the same as saying a google search is the source of the info.

If an AI is able to consistently create content that doesn't break any of the forum's rules (good quality, on-topic, not just a padded word salad, no plagiarism, etc, etc), I, for one, welcome our new machine overlords. Otherwise, content that violates the rules, AI or human produced, can already be dealt with with our current rules and policies in mind.

This whole thing works explicitly....
Y'all know what? It isn't that simple to amend a rule that has been placed over time, just for a willy-crafted bug like the artificial intelligence. well, I'm not actually saying that it's impossible though but alot needs to be done to get some rules amended.
I could remember reading something from an OP few days ago; that creating contents with the AI isn't against the rules, which is obviously true....WHY? Cus we haven't got any rules like that.
To my discretions, I think a refusal to amend the rules against these bug might result to breaking alot more rules; ofcourse, it's gonna encourage merit farming..... When everyother normal person tries their best to attain a rank, after alot of UPs and DOWNs, but they're others out there tryna outsmart or say -- manipulate the whole merit system, and you think that's gonna CUT IT???

Sandra 🧑‍🦰

In that case, we need admins to explicitly state on the rules that the use of artificial intelligence for the creation of content here is considered plagiarism. Otherwise, someone could argue that there was no connection between the AI and the old rule itself.

I would suggest the administration to ban AI for the "writing" of posts here on the forum unless it is clearly being used for reviewing or entertainment purposes, being mandatory for anyone to share the link to the AI used, after quoting the AI -generated text.

99% of AI users on Bitcointalk will just use it to attempt plagiarism and spam, which is already prohibited in forum rules. Also, it is straightforward to detect GPT3 content, there are AI detection sites that do just that.

Here is the rule you are asking for.  33.Posting plagiarized content is not allowed.

Well AI has been used all over the internet for around three or two years. Maybe some people use AI here, but I don't think using AI is beneficial here in this forum.


What kind of rules do you want to be implemented here? I don't think there is any need for extra rules because AI users will eventually get detected.

That's all. Surely the owner and the people most involved in it are thinking about it, but AIs are going to be used on the forum if they are not already being used, as they are being used all over the internet.

Better to come up with clear rules than to go willy-nilly.