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Topic: This is the kind of hierarchy some want for the The Bitcoin Network. (Read 3546 times)

legendary
Activity: 1792
Merit: 1047
we just need to get gavin off the board. the others can stand as is but we cannot have the lead developer's hands wrapped up in politics.

Politics and hidden agenda's a sinister pair.

Even if an individual or group can be 100% sincere, the possibility for corruption shadowing any organized representation would always be a factor. (however unlikely it may be) the possibility will always exist.
legendary
Activity: 1834
Merit: 1019
we just need to get gavin off the board. the others can stand as is but we cannot have the lead developer's hands wrapped up in politics.
hero member
Activity: 492
Merit: 503

I prefer to think of it this way:
Bitcoin is a multidimensional form of life and it intersects with our 3D reality in a variety of ways.
Intersections may appear to be separate objects in space and time but they really are just a part of a bigger more complex idea.


There was a time I thought stuff like that too.

I'm not sure what I was thinking it about, but damn, if those weren't the best cookies I've ever eaten. Never had such strong ones since.  Sad
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
I'll admit that I have been putting all of my income into Bitcoins for the past year or so.

So, yeah, I am biased. I am attached to Bitcoin.

So you have set your self up to get burned ?  Tongue

On other hand I do agree, we should try to get away from a situation where one group is slowly becoming the kingpin. I would love to see more options besides the default bitcoin daemon, not a alt currency but a alt deamon/library that implements the protocol as it is today. It would give the foundation some competition and the community a fall back in case a unwanted change does get pushed true in one or the other.

If you don't like the foundation then go find one of the people/groups that are working on that and support them ...
hero member
Activity: 496
Merit: 500
I'll admit that I have been putting all of my income into Bitcoins for the past year or so.

So, yeah, I am biased. I am attached to Bitcoin.

You can spend tiny fraction of your bitcoins to build an equal representation in any successful alt-chain.
hero member
Activity: 496
Merit: 500
As long as Bitcoin stays open source and voluntary, I don't see a problem of anybody funding its development even if it's a CIA or JPMorgan. What we should fight for is to have an open market for alternative currencies.
Cryptocurrency is best served as a natural monopoly. Bitcoin will likely be the only popular cryptocurrency. It's not a like it or leave it type of thing. We do no not need it controlled by the government or the largest bank.

It doesn't have to be a monopoly.

If we look at gold, for example, one might argue that it was a natural monopoly on money, but I would argue that silver (even though less valuable) served as money as well.
And we already have "silver" to Bitcoin's "gold" - it's called Litecoin.
...

I'm going to stick with Bitcoin and defend it until death for the interests of those who want a protocol that can't be easily changed. I am not going to Litecoins, Cosbycoins or Free Speech Zone Coins.

Thanks.

I prefer to think of it this way:
Bitcoin is a multidimensional form of life and it intersects with our 3D reality in a variety of ways.
Intersections may appear to be separate objects in space and time but they really are just a part of a bigger more complex idea.



legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
I'll admit that I have been putting all of my income into Bitcoins for the past year or so.

So, yeah, I am biased. I am attached to Bitcoin.

All the more you should like altcoins, they are essential in testing new features which would be too risky to implement in bitcoin and where testnet isn't realistic enough.
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
I'll admit that I have been putting all of my income into Bitcoins for the past year or so.

So, yeah, I am biased. I am attached to Bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1437
Merit: 1002
https://bitmynt.no
As long as Bitcoin stays open source and voluntary, I don't see a problem of anybody funding its development even if it's a CIA or JPMorgan. What we should fight for is to have an open market for alternative currencies.
Cryptocurrency is best served as a natural monopoly. Bitcoin will likely be the only popular cryptocurrency. It's not a like it or leave it type of thing. We do no not need it controlled by the government or the largest bank.
Recently a lot of very interesting ideas have come up which, if implemented fully, would either require a new currency or a hardfork of Bitcoin.  There is no way to stop the old blockchain from continuing, so we willl end up with at least two currencies if those ideas are implemented.  Do you think the ideas should be forbidden and buried?

Currently I see no reason to choose anything else than Bitcoin, but I'm not sure I can resist when something much better comes up.  E.g. something where the blockchain isn't needed.  Control is an issue here as well, of course.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1057
Marketing manager - GO MP
I am not going to Litecoins, Cosbycoins or Free Speech Zone Coins.

That's the wrong attitude. If bitcoin is to suceed it needs more experimental cryptocurrencies taking the risks in order to continue innovation.
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
As long as Bitcoin stays open source and voluntary, I don't see a problem of anybody funding its development even if it's a CIA or JPMorgan. What we should fight for is to have an open market for alternative currencies.
Cryptocurrency is best served as a natural monopoly. Bitcoin will likely be the only popular cryptocurrency. It's not a like it or leave it type of thing. We do no not need it controlled by the government or the largest bank.

It doesn't have to be a monopoly.

If we look at gold, for example, one might argue that it was a natural monopoly on money, but I would argue that silver (even though less valuable) served as money as well.
And we already have "silver" to Bitcoin's "gold" - it's called Litecoin.

Once the "current" coin (Bitcoin at the moment) moves to a specialized mining hardware like ASICs the general purpose hardware becomes available for the next experiment (currently Litecoin). The same shift will likely happen again when Litecoin ASICs show up at some point in the future.

Litecoin brings faster blocks and as a result higher overall network throughput (due to 1Mb per block limit) before hard fork is required. It also will adopt important blockchain optimizatons earlier in its evolution and will likely have more equal coin distribution than Bitcoin due to increased community awareness when it was started. I'm sure there will be other successful coins as well.

Adoption wise, it would take one or two major payment processors like Bit-Pay to take any alt-coin on board to make all the difference.

I'm going to stick with Bitcoin and defend it until death for the interests of those who want a protocol that can't be easily changed. I am not going to Litecoins, Cosbycoins or Free Speech Zone Coins.

Thanks.

Or we can do the sensible thing and abandon the ridiculous and paralyzing idea of money altogether and actually help other people to live better.
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
As long as Bitcoin stays open source and voluntary, I don't see a problem of anybody funding its development even if it's a CIA or JPMorgan. What we should fight for is to have an open market for alternative currencies.
Cryptocurrency is best served as a natural monopoly. Bitcoin will likely be the only popular cryptocurrency. It's not a like it or leave it type of thing. We do no not need it controlled by the government or the largest bank.

It doesn't have to be a monopoly.

If we look at gold, for example, one might argue that it was a natural monopoly on money, but I would argue that silver (even though less valuable) served as money as well.
And we already have "silver" to Bitcoin's "gold" - it's called Litecoin.

Once the "current" coin (Bitcoin at the moment) moves to a specialized mining hardware like ASICs the general purpose hardware becomes available for the next experiment (currently Litecoin). The same shift will likely happen again when Litecoin ASICs show up at some point in the future.

Litecoin brings faster blocks and as a result higher overall network throughput (due to 1Mb per block limit) before hard fork is required. It also will adopt important blockchain optimizatons earlier in its evolution and will likely have more equal coin distribution than Bitcoin due to increased community awareness when it was started. I'm sure there will be other successful coins as well.

Adoption wise, it would take one or two major payment processors like Bit-Pay to take any alt-coin on board to make all the difference.

I'm going to stick with Bitcoin and defend it until death for the interests of those who want a protocol that can't be easily changed. I am not going to Litecoins, Cosbycoins or Free Speech Zone Coins.

Thanks.
hero member
Activity: 496
Merit: 500
As long as Bitcoin stays open source and voluntary, I don't see a problem of anybody funding its development even if it's a CIA or JPMorgan. What we should fight for is to have an open market for alternative currencies.
Cryptocurrency is best served as a natural monopoly. Bitcoin will likely be the only popular cryptocurrency. It's not a like it or leave it type of thing. We do no not need it controlled by the government or the largest bank.

It doesn't have to be a monopoly.

If we look at gold, for example, one might argue that it was a natural monopoly on money, but I would argue that silver (even though less valuable) served as money as well.
And we already have "silver" to Bitcoin's "gold" - it's called Litecoin.

Once the "current" coin (Bitcoin at the moment) moves to a specialized mining hardware like ASICs the general purpose hardware becomes available for the next experiment (currently Litecoin). The same shift will likely happen again when Litecoin ASICs show up at some point in the future.

Litecoin brings faster blocks and as a result higher overall network throughput (due to 1Mb per block limit) before hard fork is required. It also will adopt important blockchain optimizatons earlier in its evolution and will likely have more equal coin distribution than Bitcoin due to increased community awareness when it was started. I'm sure there will be other successful coins as well.

Adoption wise, it would take one or two major payment processors like Bit-Pay to take any alt-coin on board to make all the difference.
newbie
Activity: 29
Merit: 0
As long as Bitcoin stays open source and voluntary, I don't see a problem of anybody funding its development even if it's a CIA or JPMorgan. What we should fight for is to have an open market for alternative currencies.
Cryptocurrency is best served as a natural monopoly. Bitcoin will likely be the only popular cryptocurrency. It's not a like it or leave it type of thing. We do no not need it controlled by the government or the largest bank.

I didn't know the worlds largest bank was involved in this, I tried searching but didn't find anything.

Do you have proof that Deutsche Bank AG is trying to control Bitcoin? If you don't this is just another paranoid lie from you.
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
As long as Bitcoin stays open source and voluntary, I don't see a problem of anybody funding its development even if it's a CIA or JPMorgan. What we should fight for is to have an open market for alternative currencies.
Cryptocurrency is best served as a natural monopoly. Bitcoin will likely be the only popular cryptocurrency. It's not a like it or leave it type of thing. We do no not need it controlled by the government or the largest bank.
hero member
Activity: 496
Merit: 500
As long as Bitcoin stays open source and voluntary, I don't see a problem of anybody funding its development even if it's a CIA or JPMorgan. What we should fight for is to have an open market for alternative currencies.
legendary
Activity: 1437
Merit: 1002
https://bitmynt.no
This is getting interesting.  How would you go about to remove Gavin from his lead position in the old model?  You claim it was easy.  To me it seems easier now when I am a member of the foundation employing him.  I wonder how you would go about to revoke his Satioshi powers in the old model.

I don't think the community will stop watching.  A large part of the community has joined the foundation, and will watch it as well.
How? Fork git, discredit his.
You can do exactly the same under the new model.  Call your fork "Litecoin" or "Solidcoin" or whatver.
If J.P. Morgan, CIA and governments around the world would like to support Bitcoin's open development, I would welcome it.  They could do it under the old model as well, but under the old model we wouldn't necessarily know about it.  Perhaps this is your problem?  You just don't want to know about it?
And this fallacy is exactly the reason why I preferred him being independent and constantly watched by the community. Now the community will trust that this Bitcoin foundation is being honest and open
Do you consider yourself as part of the community?  If you do, this is obviously false.  If not, why do you waste your time trolling around here?
legendary
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1000
You are WRONG!
Atlas: did you forget to take your medication? you seem quite paranoid.

i also would have no problem with CIA, or anyone else funding bitcoin. in fact they can do it they want the code is opensource.
and you say that gavin might beginning to corrupt, i say that "might" be true, but i only want him replaced if he fucks up.

oh and btw. no one is forced to use the gavinnized version of bitcoin, just fork the code(it has been done before eg. the 0-fee fork).


you, atlas, are way too worried about a problem that does not exist.
legendary
Activity: 1078
Merit: 1003
Before: Gavin or who ever is lead dev had to personally defend his and his team's actions while the whole community was carefully monitoring what he did AND he was easily removable from his lead position
This is getting interesting.  How would you go about to remove Gavin from his lead position in the old model?  You claim it was easy.  To me it seems easier now when I am a member of the foundation employing him.  I wonder how you would go about to revoke his Satioshi powers in the old model.

I don't think the community will stop watching.  A large part of the community has joined the foundation, and will watch it as well.

How? Fork git, discredit his.

It's all about credibility, it always was. Back then a lead dev was solely responsible for his, now he has a corporation shielding it for him.

Yeah you joined? And your going to vote him out? Is that why the political system works oh so well? Because elections are a good way to get rid of bad people? Please, I'm not 5 years old. You can't remove Gavin now. First of all he is on the board of directors for the next two years, to vote him off you will need to wait at least that long but secondly he is a founding member, and you can't get rid of one of those.

i.e. J.P. Morgan, CIA and Governmental funding for this organization would be an issue.
And all of them secretly funding the developers under the old model would not?
The old model would entail organizations going to each developer at the GitHub and having them work for them -- not easily done. Under the Bitcoin Foundation, there is more clout and changes can be pushed more easily just through Gavin.
If J.P. Morgan, CIA and governments around the world would like to support Bitcoin's open development, I would welcome it.  They could do it under the old model as well, but under the old model we wouldn't necessarily know about it.  Perhaps this is your problem?  You just don't want to know about it?

And this fallacy is exactly the reason why I preferred him being independent and constantly watched by the community. Now the community will trust that this Bitcoin foundation is being honest and open about who pays which bill where NOTHING prevents someone still paying a lead dev secretly to do whatever (not that I think this is relevant in the first place). So you see, this false sense of security under the pretense that it was actually needed is actually a moral hazard, the first of it's kind in the Bitcoin ecosystem and a huge danger down the road.
jr. member
Activity: 56
Merit: 1
i.e. J.P. Morgan, CIA and Governmental funding for this organization would be an issue.
And all of them secretly funding the developers under the old model would not?
The old model would entail organizations going to each developer at the GitHub and having them work for them -- not easily done. Under the Bitcoin Foundation, there is more clout and changes can be pushed more easily just through Gavin.
If J.P. Morgan, CIA and governments around the world would like to support Bitcoin's open development, I would welcome it.  They could do it under the old model as well, but under the old model we wouldn't necessarily know about it.  Perhaps this is your problem?  You just don't want to know about it?
No. Not even close.

If you can't see the conflict of interest that comes from large social and financial powers funding Bitcoin, I don't think we can have a productive discussion.

They couldn't do it effectively under the old model because nothing would get done. There would be no foundation or authority for flawed releases coming from individual developers.

Look up Hegemony. Look how social movements and countries get taken over. We don't live in a nice, trustworthy world.
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