This is the the reason why Bitcoin price will go down and not up long term

ACheair

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Quote from: BrewMaster on June 20, 2019, 08:32:44 AM

Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 08:18:07 AM

Bitcoin will never be instant, and that's why people won't use it long term. In our dynamic world things need to be fast and instant.

bitcoin was never meant to be "instant-confirmation" and people have been using it fine so far knowing it is not like that.

although bitcoin fees these days are not a problem as you think but i agree that having such high fees and having them shoot up like what it did over the past 30 minutes is bad for bitcoin adoption as a currency.

Exactly, i think that too many websites and exchanges are promoting their services using claims like "instant transaction", "instant confirmation" as a part of their marketing strategies - it crooks the real time of the whole transaction, which for me is not the main problem in the adaption process.

PilotofBTC

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Quote from: stompix on June 21, 2019, 03:04:57 AM

Visa payments are instant. You insert, swipe whatever your card on the POS and it gets confirmed in seconds.

That's not true. The approval is instant[sic]. The settlement takes at least 24 hours.

To me, swiping a card and getting an approval is the same as sending bitcoin to an address and seeing the tx in the mempool. You see the transaction in your wallet within seconds too, just like Visa.

---

So, if you are talking about the time it takes for a fungible asset to move from one person to another, bitcoin has visa beat.

I can send you bitcoin, and you can spend it after one confirm, which is usually about 10 minutes, say even in the extreme 60 minutes.

If I go into a store and swipe my credit card, the merchant can't spend that money, since they won't get it until settlement... which is at least 1 day, could be more depending on the merchant's account.

So, yea, Bitcoin settlement, which is the point at which the fungible asset has exchanged hands, is much faster than Visa. That's assuming you don't get a chargeback too.

Neither is instant.

Of course, lightning will change that and make the settlement almost instant too. So, much better than Visa.

stompix

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Quote from: PilotofBTC on June 20, 2019, 12:03:59 PM

Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 08:18:07 AM

You sent a transaction 45 minutes ago with a fee of 103 Sat/B which according to bitcoinfees.earn.com - this should take no more than 25 minutes to confirm, and nonetheless despite you paid a large fee and more than the recommended fee amount - it's still unconfirmed:

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/850eddd1551126e2af94c82c57890c75f4c7377a901863b56d071ba7c5bd09d7

Bitcoin will never be instant, and that's why people won't use it long term. In our dynamic world things need to be fast and instant.

It's faster than Visa.

Visa payments are instant. You insert, swipe whatever your card on the POS and it gets confirmed in seconds.

Quote from: Artemis3 on June 20, 2019, 12:20:27 PM

In my home country wire transfers can take one or two days, but only during workdays. The country I'm in now, they are used to wait one or two weeks, and this is among local banks, not international. Bitcoin is lightning fast next to that.

I particularly tend to transfer at 1 sat/b (the minimum), i don't mind waiting a couple of days. If the network is congested, it usually confirms overnight. Nothing like those dreaded first months of 2018.

Comparing apples and bananas with carrots.
Just because the banking system sucks in one country it doesn't mean it is everywhere like this.

When bitcoin zealots try to show how fast bitcoin is they always put in the comparison the worst situation for banks.
If you're going to talk about different banks why don't you do the same for cryptos, like how hard is to transfer eth to somebody when you only have bitcoins in your wallet? That would be fair!

Also, just how many people do you think are making international bank transfers? I've probably done two or three in my entire life!

On a chain, transactions can't compete with banks! There is a limit of around 400-500k transactions per day.
If 10 million people would try to make a tx in a day, for 3 millions of them it will take longer than two weeks to confirm the transactions.
With the traditional system or with visa you will never experience this.

On chain transactions have limits, once we deal with the LN, that's a whole different story but that was not the point here.

slaman29

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You must remember one thing also, which is the irrationality of the market. And for Bitcoin, there is a big step it must overcome in the minds of mainstream, which is this irrationality. To use something that no state owns, no one controls, it is against every rational and logic thinking that we were taught about money.

But if we get over that, then Bitcoin's superiority is difficult to ignore.

jademaxsuy

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bitcoin and ethereum going to grow very nice **

Roll Eyes

Yeah, I am also like you always watching the crypto market price movement. It is the always thing that a bitcoin or cryptocurrency lover would do especially if one is investing in a crypto. Updates will always be visible here in the forum and I am seeing it always to think that there are millions of users in this forum and users also of cryptocurrency all over the world.

Dapper

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I'll be sure to tell that to growing asset portfolio.

maxreish

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There are so many great things about bitcoin except for the transactions fees and the movement of transaction. Yes, there are times the transaction took so long. I remember it took the whole day before my transaction came. But if you increase the price of gas, the fee will also increase but the tx will be instant. However, that doesn't be a problem for some who really earn huge profits. It aids the problem for anonymous transactions without going to the payment center and banks.

jhongzjhong

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Quote from: eaLiTy on June 20, 2019, 04:28:14 PM

I accept that bitcoin is not a good platform for small transaction but that is not the case with international transactions.

I also into that sentiment, bitcoin will works anytime even holidays or even midnight you can make transactions compared to bank fiat transfer. I think transaction fee and speed of transaction doesn't matter of me if only takes an hour only not 24 hours. I don't have any issue with that and I guess bitcoin is will have an advantage than other valuable things online. Well, we have a different perspective on how to use bitcoin even high fees and delay transactions.

eaLiTy

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Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 08:18:07 AM

You sent a transaction 45 minutes ago with a fee of 103 Sat/B which according to bitcoinfees.earn.com - this should take no more than 25 minutes to confirm, and nonetheless despite you paid a large fee and more than the recommended fee amount - it's still unconfirmed:

Bitcoin will never be instant, and that's why people won't use it long term. In our dynamic world things need to be fast and instant.

Let us take this transaction and say that you are doing an international transaction worth over million dollars, how much will it cost you including bank transaction, forex conversion charges and other service charges and the time it will take to carry on that deal, i can bet it will be far more than you are spending for a transaction in bitcoin and this simple case is more than enough for every international trader to adopt bitcoin in the long term.
I accept that bitcoin is not a good platform for small transaction but that is not the case with international transactions.

CoinCollect

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Yes, this problem exists, but despite this, investors still buy bitcoin. And so far I see no reason for its price to decrease. I believe that bitcoin has a promising future.

Payme21

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This is a big minus to bitcoin and its been flogged over and over but do not think this will affect the market long term as this too will be solved

PilotofBTC

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Quote from: Mike Mayor on June 20, 2019, 12:31:24 PM

Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 10:13:15 AM

Quote from: stompix on June 20, 2019, 08:42:19 AM

Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 08:18:07 AM

You sent a transaction 45 minutes ago ~ it's still unconfirmed:

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/850eddd1551126e2af94c82c57890c75f4c7377a901863b56d071ba7c5bd09d7

Quote

Received Time 2019-06-20 12:46:42
Included In Blocks 581595 ( 2019-06-20 13:26:43 + 40 minutes )

You were saying.....

Do you have a plan with opening this kind of topics?
Any idea how long will it take for this transaction to confirm?
Any idea why this transaction wasn't confirmed yet?

Yes, that's just proving the point. Not the opposite.

Did your brain roll out of your ear during your sleep last night? They just proved you were talking crap and don't know what you are talking about. You are a liar. The blockchain confirmed your transaction in under 45 minutes and you claim you sent it over 45 minutes ago. Don't even try to argue it is on the blockchain.

Well, he was "expecting" it to confirm in 25 minutes based on some fee estimate/confirm time estimate web site. Since reality didn't meet that estimate he concluded it took to long so no one would use bitcoin.

I still say that is faster than a Visa transaction and millions of those happen every day. No one complains that they are too slow since people use Visa constantly.

Mike Mayor

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Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 10:13:15 AM

Quote from: stompix on June 20, 2019, 08:42:19 AM

Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 08:18:07 AM

You sent a transaction 45 minutes ago ~ it's still unconfirmed:

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/850eddd1551126e2af94c82c57890c75f4c7377a901863b56d071ba7c5bd09d7

Quote

Received Time 2019-06-20 12:46:42
Included In Blocks 581595 ( 2019-06-20 13:26:43 + 40 minutes )

You were saying.....

Do you have a plan with opening this kind of topics?
Any idea how long will it take for this transaction to confirm?
Any idea why this transaction wasn't confirmed yet?

Yes, that's just proving the point. Not the opposite.

Did your brain roll out of your ear during your sleep last night? They just proved you were talking crap and don't know what you are talking about. You are a liar. The blockchain confirmed your transaction in under 45 minutes and you claim you sent it over 45 minutes ago. Don't even try to argue it is on the blockchain.

Artemis3

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Quote from: bitbunnny on June 20, 2019, 11:01:23 AM

I don't think that Bitcoin transactions were ever meant to be instant. Besides, are bank transactions instant? No, they are not unless you send money within the same bank. I understand that people like everything fast and want they money and payment as fast as possible but that is not the reason why people would abandon Bitcoin and stop using it. Yes, Bitcoin has some disadvantages but speed of transactions is not the biggest one.

In my home country wire transfers can take one or two days, but only during workdays. The country I'm in now, they are used to wait one or two weeks, and this is among local banks, not international. Bitcoin is lightning fast next to that.

I particularly tend to transfer at 1 sat/b (the minimum), i don't mind waiting a couple of days. If the network is congested, it usually confirms overnight. Nothing like those dreaded first months of 2018.

coolcoinz

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Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 10:13:15 AM

Yes, that's just proving the point. Not the opposite.

What point? Your transaction confirmed in 40 minutes. Keep in mind that it can happen at night on a weekend. Try sending someone money during the weekend or during bank holiday. Also, have you ever sent money to someone in another country, who doesn't have a foreign currency account set up? The fees are much bigger and the transfer can take 3 days!
To completely destroy your point, I dare you to show me a bank that will allow you to transfer 1 million USD to another country with a fee of 1 USD and do it in less than an hour.

The Cryptovator

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Look like OP is angry with bitcoin transaction Wink

. You can't say bitcoin price would down only for that reason. And really it's from beginning and bitcoin gain crypto world. So we can't say that it would be dump for transaction reasons. Bitcoin will not dry till its community live. And bitcoin community is larg community if you compare with other coin. So better think positive instead of spread negativity.

shield132

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Quote from: BrewMaster on June 20, 2019, 08:32:44 AM

Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 08:18:07 AM

Bitcoin will never be instant, and that's why people won't use it long term. In our dynamic world things need to be fast and instant.

bitcoin was never meant to be "instant-confirmation" and people have been using it fine so far knowing it is not like that.

although bitcoin fees these days are not a problem as you think but i agree that having such high fees and having them shoot up like what it did over the past 30 minutes is bad for bitcoin adoption as a currency.

as for price, investors have shown that they don't care at all about price and so far they continue buying. in fact these spikes is exactly because they are buying bitcoin! and in the long run bitcoin scalability is improving so you can't really say it won't go up in long term.

+1 to this one and also, in long term it has a lot of reasons to rise, one of them is bitcoin halving.
On another hand transaction confirmation isn't problem today. Almost every service, including shops, wallets and etc accept instant payments, once their machine checks transaction, if it has normal fee, you get automatically instant confirm from them and don't need to wait hours to see when it hits 6 confirmation.
Also people look bitcoin as an investment option which gives another boost of possibility that bitcoin will rise because a lot of people invest in it and this investment is different from others. Plus don't look bitcoin only as a currency, it's payment method too.

PilotofBTC

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Quote from: IIV on June 20, 2019, 12:06:52 PM

Quote from: PilotofBTC on June 20, 2019, 12:03:59 PM

Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 08:18:07 AM

You sent a transaction 45 minutes ago with a fee of 103 Sat/B which according to bitcoinfees.earn.com - this should take no more than 25 minutes to confirm, and nonetheless despite you paid a large fee and more than the recommended fee amount - it's still unconfirmed:

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/850eddd1551126e2af94c82c57890c75f4c7377a901863b56d071ba7c5bd09d7

Bitcoin will never be instant, and that's why people won't use it long term. In our dynamic world things need to be fast and instant.

It's faster than Visa.

Visa was faster than wire transfer.

It depends on what you are measuring. What are you measuring?

Doranile432

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In the first place bitcoin was never programmed for fast instant transaction and its still faster than most online payments outside of crypto realm if this is your point that bitcoin won't be used for long term you are so wrong friend

IIV

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Quote from: PilotofBTC on June 20, 2019, 12:03:59 PM

Quote from: Get-Paid.com on June 20, 2019, 08:18:07 AM

You sent a transaction 45 minutes ago with a fee of 103 Sat/B which according to bitcoinfees.earn.com - this should take no more than 25 minutes to confirm, and nonetheless despite you paid a large fee and more than the recommended fee amount - it's still unconfirmed:

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/850eddd1551126e2af94c82c57890c75f4c7377a901863b56d071ba7c5bd09d7

Bitcoin will never be instant, and that's why people won't use it long term. In our dynamic world things need to be fast and instant.

It's faster than Visa.

Visa was faster than wire transfer.

Topic: This is the the reason why Bitcoin price will go down and not up long term (Read 396 times)