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sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 252
ABISprotocol on Gist
"Warning: Use of Tor and Bitcoin together may result in additional attack vectors that could compromise your privacy. Do you wish to proceed?"
This warning is incorrect for Bitcoin.  The risks described are that it may be somewhat more vulnerable to DOS attack. For wallet users the only consequence is that it might not work and, if they're in a hurry, they might choose to turn off tor and end up with the same non-privacy they would have had if they had not used Tor.

OpenBazaar is offtopic in this thread.

You seem to be rather insecure about my remarks about Tor, Bitcoin and so forth.  I don't feel any of my remarks are OT, furthermore.  These matters I've mentioned are relevant to what's at hand.  I'd be less concerned with wallet users choosing to "turn off tor" (as this is likely a very small subset of persons) and more concerned with a bunch of folks who are engaging in surveillance of large parts of the network while at the same time, the system is vulnerable to people who craft large-scale surveillance not just for monitoring but with the intent to create a new Bitcoin reality for some set of users, and / or those who want to greylist people. 

I think this is also a very good time to bring up again the subject of why anonymity as an option is very important for Bitcoin users.
I'll refer back to this:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7912447 

Ciao,

-ABIS
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
"Warning: Use of Tor and Bitcoin together may result in additional attack vectors that could compromise your privacy. Do you wish to proceed?"
This warning is incorrect for Bitcoin.  The risks described are that it may be somewhat more vulnerable to DOS attack. For wallet users the only consequence is that it might not work and, if they're in a hurry, they might choose to turn off tor and end up with the same non-privacy they would have had if they had not used Tor.

OpenBazaar is offtopic in this thread.
sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 252
ABISprotocol on Gist
On the TOR point specifically, numerous studies have been done that have revealed problems involving the use of TOR and bitcoin in combination, leading to vulnerabilities that have not yet been mitigated.
Your comment is confused and misleading.

The "problems" reported initially is that an attacker can DOS attack to cause IPv4 nodes to block nodes behind Tor. This is true, but we were always aware of that and implemented hidden service bitcoin nodes as a tool to improve that. The paper was revised to also point out that you could concurrently DOS attack hidden service nodes-- which is generally true with or without tor, but there are not as many HS nodes.

The end result of all that though is just a DOS attack. Maybe if an attack happened, which isn't currently happening, you might have problems getting a new connection after starting your software.  This is completely safe, it might be irritating but your privacy would not be compromised unless you took the affirmative (and obviously foolish) action of disabling Tor support in your wallet.

None of this is a reason to not use Tor-- it's a reason, among _many_, that Tor doesn't solve all possible problems but you lose nothing by using it.  It's harmful to the community for you to promote otherwise.

Actually, I use TOR myself.  I just disagree that we should blindly use TOR with bitcoin or suggest that users do the same thing without warning people of the possible consequences.

See in my remarks on github where I suggested one possible option:

"Appropriate warnings for users who are using OpenBazaar (which incorporates bitcoin use) with Tor should be something like this: "Warning: Proceed at your own risk," or, "Warning: Use of Tor and Bitcoin together may result in additional attack vectors that could compromise your privacy. Do you wish to proceed?"

This is not a slam on OB either because I use OpenBazaar.  I simply think it is ridiculous to not warn people of possible risks.
staff
Activity: 4284
Merit: 8808
On the TOR point specifically, numerous studies have been done that have revealed problems involving the use of TOR and bitcoin in combination, leading to vulnerabilities that have not yet been mitigated.
Your comment is confused and misleading.

The "problems" reported initially is that an attacker can DOS attack to cause IPv4 nodes to block nodes behind Tor. This is true, but we were always aware of that and implemented hidden service bitcoin nodes as a tool to improve that. The paper was revised to also point out that you could concurrently DOS attack hidden service nodes-- which is generally true with or without tor, but there are not as many HS nodes.

The end result of all that though is just a DOS attack. Maybe if an attack happened, which isn't currently happening, you might have problems getting a new connection after starting your software.  This is completely safe, it might be irritating but your privacy would not be compromised unless you took the affirmative (and obviously foolish) action of disabling Tor support in your wallet.

None of this is a reason to not use Tor-- it's a reason, among _many_, that Tor doesn't solve all possible problems but you lose nothing by using it.  It's harmful to the community for you to promote otherwise.
sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 252
ABISprotocol on Gist
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1060
This is exactly what they want you to do. We are attacking a whole subnet, maybe a competitor they wanted gone, testing for the future to maybe take down bitpay or something. If they were real, they'd use random ips.

You really think they'd use one subnet? And make it so obvious? With a homepage playing right into our fears? This whole thing is staged. Bitcoin is already designed to avoid peers from the same subnet. Why would they use that?

Using a node with tor is a bad idea.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
Based on my legal studies at the University of Wikipedia, I think Chainanalysis is violating the CFAA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#Criminal_offenses_under_the_Act

Connection slots made available by full nodes are offered to peers who will participate in the relaying of transactions, I doubt the people who run full nodes authorize use of their limited connection slots for the purposes other than participating in the Bitcoin protocol.

It may well be that Chainanalysis is violating CFAA, but then again when I get up and breathe in the morning I am probably violating several laws. 

Why not just start going through the process of ensuring they are blocked.

If they continue with their efforts, I recommend this as a resource:

Consider what Mozilla did as a technique against a global spyware provider...
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2013/04/30/protecting-our-brand-from-a-global-spyware-provider/

Or, use the courts to seize the domain name of Chainanalysis or any other company that does what they are doing via the ex parte TRO process - like this:
http://www.honeynet.org/node/830

Word of warning: I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice.  So if you feel compelled to examine any of these options further, do what any reasonable person must do: Consult a lawyer before doing anything!

Otherwise, block Chainanalysis's shit.

Thanks to those who have caught this early.
Blocking them is certainly a great idea, and so is implementing technical measures that make what they are trying to do more difficult or (ideally) impossible.

There's also a very satisfying form of symmetry in holding startups in the regulatory compliance field accountable to regulations which they are violating.

If companies who are disrupting the Bitcoin network for a profit were held accountable to criminal law, then maybe the investors in such companies would apply more scrutiny to the ventures they fund.
sr. member
Activity: 278
Merit: 252
ABISprotocol on Gist
Based on my legal studies at the University of Wikipedia, I think Chainanalysis is violating the CFAA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#Criminal_offenses_under_the_Act

Connection slots made available by full nodes are offered to peers who will participate in the relaying of transactions, I doubt the people who run full nodes authorize use of their limited connection slots for the purposes other than participating in the Bitcoin protocol.

It may well be that Chainanalysis is violating CFAA, but then again when I get up and breathe in the morning I am probably violating several laws.  

Why not just start going through the process of ensuring they are blocked.

If they continue with their efforts, I recommend this as a resource:

Consider what Mozilla did as a technique against a global spyware provider...
https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2013/04/30/protecting-our-brand-from-a-global-spyware-provider/

Or, use the courts to seize the domain(s) of Chainanalysis or any other company that does what they are doing via the ex parte TRO process - like this:
http://www.honeynet.org/node/830

Word of warning: I'm not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice.  So if you feel compelled to examine any of these options further, do what any reasonable person must do: Consult a lawyer before doing anything!

Otherwise, block Chainanalysis's shit.

Thanks to those who have caught this early.
donator
Activity: 1419
Merit: 1015
I have been fairly open about being an AnarchoCapitalist myself, supporting people like Cody Wilson and Ross Ulbricht, and supporting the idea of The four pillars of a decentralized society as explained by Johann Gevers to help decentralize government functions.

For those unfamiliar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oeiOeDq_Nc
legendary
Activity: 1820
Merit: 1000
Looks like the people at mycellium and kraken are involved...

Kraken is not in any way "behind" Chainalysis. Michael Gronager left Kraken in October 2014 to work on Chainalysis and has only remained affiliated with Kraken in an advisory role.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1013
Based on my legal studies at the University of Wikipedia, I think Chainanalysis is violating the CFAA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act#Criminal_offenses_under_the_Act

Connection slots made available by full nodes are offered to peers who will participate in the relaying of transactions, I doubt the people who run full nodes authorize use of their limited connection slots for the purposes other than participating in the Bitcoin protocol.
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 500
Latest Bitcoin Core with 2000 connections allowed
2000 connections is not possible, you'll run out of file descriptors. If you edit the code remove the limits you'll end up with arbitrary memory corruption.

The code that limits outbound counts to one host per /16 is trivial, it's in net.cpp:1207.   Can you please get a getpeerinfo on the effected host while the naughty peers are connected and send me the diff with whatever changes you're running?

Quote
What happens if a malicious node is connected "outbound", then It disconnects itself, adds an inbound connection from itself, and uses "GETADDRS" to create a subsequent connection to the same subnet? This way it could slowly fill the connection list with inbound connections from itself?
Nothing?  Outbound and inbound connections do not compete with each other. You will still be limited in the number of outbound connections you have to a single /16.

Hi gmaxwell,

well I have a maximum of 3100 file descriptors on my system.

Code:
anonymous@anonymous-desktop ~/Development/counterparty-gui $ ulimit -n
3100

I will try to recreate the setting and do a getpeerinfo dump. I will also set up an IDS, maybe some session hijacking method is used to set up a connection from an unsuspicious (but also malicious) node and then taking it over by one of the 40.xxx nodes with some TCP session hijacking method. As both nodes are cooperating and share sequence numbers this should not be too hard. Or maybe some kind of NAT problem is going on (i am on a full cone NAT here). Or maybe this is all stupid what I am talking about. I will double check shortly.

It's not possible to have over ~864 (?) connections, or absolute max is 1024 (FD_SETSIZE) without changing the netcode extensively. Personally for fun I have coded an epoll implementation for the bitcoin core to allow an arbirary number of connections, I got up to 6k connections before the CPU maxed out due to the inv flooding.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
In before conspiracy theories come out:

Chainalasys VS Mycelium - The full story


Mycelium Wallets use our own custom nodes to process the bitcoin blockchain and scan for address balances. These nodes were written by Jan Møller while he was the Lead Developer, along with our other devs. The job of these nodes is to parse the 30 gig Blockchain database into our own custom database, which is much larger, being over 100 gigs in size, but which allows for very quick and easy lookup of address balances, allowing for instant balance lookups and to do things like Cold Storage spending from paper wallets and Trezor.

Mycelium's owner and developers believe in total financial privacy and personal freedom, and our company has a goal to make Mycelium Wallet the most anonymous wallet possible. For this reason, we have kept our wallet code completely open since the beginning, and have been public and open about what goes on internally in our company (I hope you have noticed my frequent updates, especially with the unfortunate Entropy delays). And even while Jan was still the lead dev, we have created LocalTrader to work completely anonymously, using only bitcoin signed messages for user authentication and encrypting all user chat P2P using their respective private keys so our servers receive no usable data. We have also added HD wallet support, and disabled all IP and transaction logging on our nodes. However, we also realize that just us claiming that we do that isn't good enough, and that's why we added full Tor support, and are in the process of implementing CoinJoin, which we hope to have enabled by default, so that even those who don't care about staying anonymous will help contribute. Our goal was to have Mycelium Wallet be as anonymous as Dark Wallet, and that has not changed.

Jan Møller, our lead developer who did most of the work on the nodes, realized that the node-parsed blockchain database can be used to analyze bitcoin transaction activity, and help track transactions in the same way that our current financial institutions do (although with much less certainty). So he decided to have his own project that does just that, and has split off from Mycelium company last October. We still kept him on as our chief technical consultant, since he did write most of the node and original wallet code, so he is technically still employed by Mycelium, but he has had no access to our nodes since he left. Our current full time lead developer is Andreas Petersson, who is working on implementing Coinapult Locks right now, and the other two developers are Jan Dreske (/u/trasla here) and Daniel Weigl, who have been adding support for Trezor, fixing bugs, adding minor requested features, etc.

We at Mycelium are not fans of what Chainalysis does, but we can't really object too much, because if something like this is even possible to do, then someone will do it, whether it's Jan's company or someone else. It's also preferable that this is done by a public company in the open, instead of in secret by a government agency. And secondly, since the developer behind this is someone who worked with us, we can at least get inside knowledge of what may be tracked and how by such systems, so we can be aware of what to watch out for and what to fix. Obviously it's not a guarantee that we will get an honest answer, but it's still better than nothing.

With regards to why our website's About section still lists Jan Møller as a Lead Developer, it's because our website dev has been working full time on another (secret) Mycelium project, and has not had the chance to change anything. I guess the site is too low of a priority to update. Note that both of our current top wallet developers who have been doing most of the work these past few months, Jan Dreske and Daniel Weigl, are completely missing from there too. I am sorry that I have not publicly stated anything about this either, but since Chainalysis is a completely separate company, Jan Møller has not had access to our internal systems since he became a consultant, and our internal goals are still total anonymity, there was no risk whatsoever to Mycelium or the privacy of our users from the Mycelium side. I have been fairly open about being an AnarchoCapitalist myself, supporting people like Cody Wilson and Ross Ulbricht, and supporting the idea of The four pillars of a decentralized society as explained by Johann Gevers to help decentralize government functions. So if there ever is a risk of Mycelium becoming a snooping agency, or if Mycelium changes its goals with regards to expanding personal freedom, I still promise to let the community know, sine there would be no way I would be willing to continue to work there if that happens.
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 1313
"If there are any weak spots in the protocol, it will only be a matter of time before someone tries to exploit them. Instead of yelling at the attackers, it would probably make more sense to build better defenses."

Quoted from: http://insidebitcoins.com/news/someone-may-be-deanonymizing-your-bitcoin-transactions/30759

I think it's the perfect summary and answer to this thread.
Yep ! Actually we should even thank these guys because this "attack" is quite cheap: use of IP addresses in the same subdomain isn't really smart for a sybil attack  Cheesy
I may be wrong but it's likely that similar attackers are still acting undetected because they can afford a better strategy (different ip ranges, imitation of full nodes behaviors, ...).



With IPv6 this type of attack will become even more difficult to detect and prevent merely by blocking the IPs.

sr. member
Activity: 384
Merit: 258
"If there are any weak spots in the protocol, it will only be a matter of time before someone tries to exploit them. Instead of yelling at the attackers, it would probably make more sense to build better defenses."

Quoted from: http://insidebitcoins.com/news/someone-may-be-deanonymizing-your-bitcoin-transactions/30759

I think it's the perfect summary and answer to this thread.
Yep ! Actually we should even thank these guys because this "attack" is quite cheap: use of IP addresses in the same subdomain isn't really smart for a sybil attack  Cheesy
I may be wrong but it's likely that similar attackers are still acting undetected because they can afford a better strategy (different ip ranges, imitation of full nodes behaviors, ...).

newbie
Activity: 31
Merit: 0
is there a way to block certain ip in bitcoin.conf file?

You really want to use iptables (assuming you are on Linux and I cannot imagine why you would not be.) That way you never have to shut down the Daemon just to block an address.
Hmmm... let me think of a single reason... Because I'm a gamer?
hero member
Activity: 907
Merit: 1003
"If there are any weak spots in the protocol, it will only be a matter of time before someone tries to exploit them. Instead of yelling at the attackers, it would probably make more sense to build better defenses."

Quoted from: http://insidebitcoins.com/news/someone-may-be-deanonymizing-your-bitcoin-transactions/30759

I think it's the perfect summary and answer to this thread.
legendary
Activity: 4214
Merit: 1313
this is why we cant have nice things

There were two from that IP range that were attached to my node. 
hero member
Activity: 1328
Merit: 563
MintDice.com | TG: t.me/MintDice
this is why we cant have nice things
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 103
http://insidebitcoins.com/news/someone-may-be-deanonymizing-your-bitcoin-transactions/30759


Maxwell has pointed out that there has been some slow progress in the prevention of sybil attacks recently, but he seemed more concerns with the general attitude of the bitcoin development community as a whole. He stated that interest in implementing better protections against sybil attacks has been “pretty low” outside of the core developers, and he also described his disappointment with “how few people realize how important privacy and fungibility is for bitcoin’s viability as a currency.”

A blessing in disguise

At the end of the day, this event should be viewed as a reminder that bitcoin transactions are not anonymous and far from private by default. The reality is there is still plenty of work to be done in the realm of protecting privacy in bitcoin. Getting angry at how anyone interacts with the bitcoin network is useless; it’s the base incentive structure that matters. If there are any weak spots in the protocol, it will only be a matter of time before someone tries to exploit them. Instead of yelling at the attackers, it would probably make more sense to build better defenses. When there are weaknesses in a decentralized system, there is no point in hoping that everyone will just play nice.
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