Thoughts on Bold browser? - formerly Braver

fortunecrypto

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Quote from: tyz on July 09, 2020, 03:31:20 PM

Braver Browser has now been renamed to Bold Browser due to possible legal issues. Brave is not doing itself a favor if it continues to do such actions. After being positive about Brave for a long time and using the browser as my first browser for more than a year, I now mainly use Firefox again and wait until Bold Browser (or other forks) has reached a stable status.

It's good that they've changed the name although it's still similar in their meaning like you, I would like to see positive reviews first before I start using this new BOLD browser, after their launching, we will now have the battle of the browser and we'll see who will come out with a better version.

tyz

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on July 11, 2020, 05:12:38 AM

No. This move by Brave to threaten legal action against Braver/Bold is completely ridiculous, and goes against the very nature of free and open source software. Did Firefox threaten Waterfox? Did Chrome threaten Ungoogled Chromium? Did uBlock threaten uBlock Origin? Did KeePass threaten KeePassX or KeePassXC? Did Bitcoin threaten Bitcoin Cash?

Basically you are right. Brave Browser is released completely under Mozilla Public License and GNU Lesser General Public License. So starting from this point it is nonsense to threaten forks with legal actions. My guess is rather that they want to prevent the browser name from being associated with the company name (Brave Software Inc). I am sure Mozilla company would have considered legal actions, too, if there would be a Firefox fork which is named Nozilla Firefix Browser Cheesy

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: tyz on July 11, 2020, 04:34:22 AM

Finding a good browser name these days is difficult because you easily get legal issues if it sounds similar to existing ones.

No. This move by Brave to threaten legal action against Braver/Bold is completely ridiculous, and goes against the very nature of free and open source software. Did Firefox threaten Waterfox? Did Chrome threaten Ungoogled Chromium? Did uBlock threaten uBlock Origin? Did KeePass threaten KeePassX or KeePassXC? Did Bitcoin threaten Bitcoin Cash?

The whole point of free and open source software is that anyone can fork it and change/improve your code, especially if your project has started to sell out on its core principles and sell out its users in return for making profit, just as Brave has done. This recent legal action is the most recent in a long line of very questionable decisions from the Brave team.

tyz

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Quote from: stomachgrowls on July 10, 2020, 05:49:02 PM

Quote from: Bttzed03 on July 10, 2020, 07:37:20 AM

Thanks @tyz and @TryNinja for the heads up. The OP has been updated.

Name change was bound to happen but I didn't expect a legal threat this quick Grin

Boldbrowser?

Finding a good browser name these days is difficult because you easily get legal issues if it sounds similar to existing ones. And if you take a short time to research you'll find out that there is a ton of browsers out there, even though the most are not well known. Bold Browser is not the best name but it derives in some way from Brave(r), so it is a good alternative name.

TryNinja

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Quote from: stomachgrowls on July 10, 2020, 05:49:02 PM

At first i thought this was just a some sort of joke when i do read up that changed name of Brave browser and in talks about that legal threat then im sure that they didnt anticipate for it to be so quick. Grin

Boldbrowser? What a shitty name and also who would be the one to trust up this one again? Once you have done something (deceiving users) that will surely taint into their name no matter how many
times they would plan to change.

Brave didn't change their name. A independent fork of them did (Braver -> Bold) because the original Brave (who deceived their users) supposidely threatened them.

The name kinda makes sense since Bold sounds like a synonym of the adjective "brave".

stomachgrowls

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Quote from: Bttzed03 on July 10, 2020, 07:37:20 AM

Thanks @tyz and @TryNinja for the heads up. The OP has been updated.

Name change was bound to happen but I didn't expect a legal threat this quick Grin

At first i thought this was just a some sort of joke when i do read up that changed name of Brave browser and in talks about that legal threat then im sure that they didnt anticipate for it to be so quick. Grin

Boldbrowser? What a shitty name and also who would be the one to trust up this one again? Once you have done something (deceiving users) that will surely taint into their name no matter how many
times they would plan to change.

Bttzed03

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Thanks @tyz and @TryNinja for the heads up. The OP has been updated.

Name change was bound to happen but I didn't expect a legal threat this quick Grin

TryNinja

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x-post of the source for the name changing:

Quote from: TryNinja on July 09, 2020, 12:41:15 PM

Just adding some source:

Quote

Due to legal threats sent to one of our community members by a certain party, specifically looking to harm them financially because of what this browser is forked from, we are immediately changing the name and removing all association to "the browser that shall not be named".

https://twitter.com/BoldBrowser/status/1281167687629049856

Quote

We are also removing references to a browser that we previously mentioned from our tweets, as a gesture of goodwill to those who send legal threats to open source contributors.

https://twitter.com/BoldBrowser/status/1281174422347546624

Quote

A company shouldn't advertise itself as privacy and anonymity respecting if they support sending legal threats to the only non-anonymous contributor of an open-source project.

Legal Disclaimer: this tweet is about nothing/noone in particular.

https://twitter.com/BoldBrowser/status/1281223448170242049

New links:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/BoldBrowser
GitHub: https://github.com/BoldBrowser

tyz

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Braver Browser has now been renamed to Bold Browser due to possible legal issues. Brave is not doing itself a favor if it continues to do such actions. After being positive about Brave for a long time and using the browser as my first browser for more than a year, I now mainly use Firefox again and wait until Bold Browser (or other forks) has reached a stable status.

pooya87

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Quote from: pilosopotasyo on June 27, 2020, 05:31:06 AM

Everything is too early to tell about the future of Braver Browser after the launch we will need a couple of months or even more to check members reaction and reviews about the competing Browser there will always differ on both browser, but we'll have to see and read the reactions of users of both browser.

do you even know what Brave browser is or bothered searching? it was launched 4 years ago and all the reactions and reviews have been out already. the conclusions are also made: Brave is so much worse than any other browser even those that don't claim to be privacy oriented such as Chrome itself. i'd rather report my every move to Google rather than this shady company.

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Quote from: pilosopotasyo on June 27, 2020, 05:31:06 AM

Everything is too early to tell about the future of Braver Browser after the launch we will need a couple of months or even more to check members reaction and reviews about the competing Browser there will always differ on both browser, but we'll have to see and read the reactions of users of both browser.

Not sure what much reviews they're going to need though besides the stability, it's not like Braver will have some additional features or something. It's literally just the Brave browser with some stuff here and there removed.

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Everything is too early to tell about the future of Braver Browser after the launch we will need a couple of months or even more to check members reaction and reviews about the competing Browser there will always differ on both browser, but we'll have to see and read the reactions of users of both browser.

mk4

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Quote from: bitmover on June 26, 2020, 03:24:18 PM

This is an interesting perspective which I never thought about. KYC makes BAT basically useless, as a FIAT withdrawal would be better.

Just as instant free transactions from centralized cryptocurrencies are a nonsense (if you don't carea bout decentralization, just use visa), BAT becomes worse than fiat when forcing KYC.

Yea. I'd probably slightly more understand the need of a separate token if they actually used the smart contracts mumbo jumbo feature of Ethereum together with a browser extension like Metamask, whereas the BAT automatically gets collected to your Metamask wallet. But no, everything goes through Uphold anyway so what's the point in using a token really lol. I'm a bit convinced that they only used a token to be able to fund themselves.

Quote from: bitmover on June 26, 2020, 03:24:18 PM

THey could argue "But BAT is worldwide and fiat is not. BAT would flatten currency relations worldwide". This is also false, as the amount of BAT received depends on your IP location. (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/brave-browser-expands-advertising-feature-170545030.html#:~:text=With%20the%20Brave%20v0.,earn%20BAT%20for%20viewing%20ads.)

Not only that, Uphold supports a crap ton of currencies anyway, so that argument really wouldn't pass. https://uphold.com/en/transparency%C2%A0

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Quote from: mk4 on June 25, 2020, 09:54:10 PM

I'm pretty sure earning through ads is removed on Braver. The KYC through withdrawing on Brave sure is counter-intuitive though. Why do you even need a cryptocurrency if you're just going to KYC anyway. Might as well just let people withdraw fiat.

Nice.

This is an interesting perspective which I never thought about. KYC makes BAT basically useless, as a FIAT withdrawal would be better.

Just as instant free transactions from centralized cryptocurrencies are a nonsense (if you don't carea bout decentralization, just use visa), BAT becomes worse than fiat when forcing KYC.

THey could argue "But BAT is worldwide and fiat is not. BAT would flatten currency relations worldwide". This is also false, as the amount of BAT received depends on your IP location. (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/brave-browser-expands-advertising-feature-170545030.html#:~:text=With%20the%20Brave%20v0.,earn%20BAT%20for%20viewing%20ads.)

babygun

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Quote from: ultrloa on June 26, 2020, 05:29:28 AM

-snip

IE is so slow for me and I cannot use especially on multitasking category that's why I'd choose chrome, But actually it's good to used the brave browser as an alternative since it's fast and the thing there is don't expect that you can earn more money by using it since it will give low rewards to the users and that is totally fine since every reward counts aslong as we cannot get 0 at the end of the day.

Brave browser is indeed fast but that's not the reason that people use Brave; they are focused on getting rewards. But do you want to do a full KYC for receiving +/- 0.5$/month?
I tried almost all browsers and I will continue to use Chrome.

ultrloa

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Quote from: Mahanton on June 25, 2020, 05:15:17 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Metherry on June 23, 2020, 03:17:43 AM

Does anyone know how much profit can be made from that browser?

Very little, especially you're from unpopular country without many ads. Looking for part-time jobs is more viable option to earn extra money.

I'm using Brave browser and I'm from a third world country and i don't see many ads coming my biggest earning for a month is only 30 cents worth of Bat, I'm thinking of removing it now there's so many negative posts and articles about Brave, but I'd like to hear how they are going to address this issue, I read that they are taking away the redirection but I want to hear more on what are they planning to do now that there is a new similar browser competing with them.

Back in the past on where those BAT ads rewards is less due to my countries location but later on they do make it available and it do give out 4-5 ads max for 1 day but it isnt really worth to click those things up
yet you do earn pennies but there are still people who do such simple task to earn few bucks.I havent tried to withdraw yet but some said it do need some KYC? thats bullshit and now
they do have issue about fixed referral link redirection? Maybe its time to uninstall this stuff out of my browser and would stick out to old IE browser. hehe

IE is so slow for me and I cannot use especially on multitasking category that's why I'd choose chrome, But actually it's good to used the brave browser as an alternative since it's fast and the thing there is don't expect that you can earn more money by using it since it will give low rewards to the users and that is totally fine since every reward counts aslong as we cannot get 0 at the end of the day.

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Quote from: big kid on June 25, 2020, 01:52:04 PM

Quote from: FFrankie on June 25, 2020, 12:29:22 AM

you gotta give kyc to withdrawal from brave thats a joke and a half

other half of the joke is the amount of BATs you receive monthly

I'm part of that Joke I sometimes question myself is it really worth earning 20 cents of Bat after finding that redirection and kinds of stuff they added, I'm ok with a small amount but weighing in the rewards and the risk, I guess it's not worth it, I'm sure we have thousands of people with the same judgement.

mk4

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Quote from: Metherry on June 23, 2020, 03:17:43 AM

Does anyone know how much profit can be made from that browser?

I don't think it's enough to get you to use a site, it's more like a bitcoin facets, right?

And then what is the development that this browser does, all the good features can be done with a small team of developers,
Just block ads is the unique feature that they offer, the rest of the things are a compilation of some features.
I think they want to achieve profits quickly and the last thing that matters to them is the protection of privacy.

will remove it.

Though not the best, I'd say Brave was actually a decent out-of-the-box browser privacy-wise, before all this fiasco. People have argued about the KYC thing, but you don't have to submit if you don't want to. It's not something you're forced to do.

But this is what Braver is trying to do: remove all the crap and just have a decent privacy browser.

Quote from: FFrankie on June 25, 2020, 12:29:22 AM

you gotta give kyc to withdrawal from brave thats a joke and a half

I'm pretty sure earning through ads is removed on Braver. The KYC through withdrawing on Brave sure is counter-intuitive though. Why do you even need a cryptocurrency if you're just going to KYC anyway. Might as well just let people withdraw fiat.

Mahanton

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Metherry on June 23, 2020, 03:17:43 AM

Does anyone know how much profit can be made from that browser?

Very little, especially you're from unpopular country without many ads. Looking for part-time jobs is more viable option to earn extra money.

I'm using Brave browser and I'm from a third world country and i don't see many ads coming my biggest earning for a month is only 30 cents worth of Bat, I'm thinking of removing it now there's so many negative posts and articles about Brave, but I'd like to hear how they are going to address this issue, I read that they are taking away the redirection but I want to hear more on what are they planning to do now that there is a new similar browser competing with them.

Back in the past on where those BAT ads rewards is less due to my countries location but later on they do make it available and it do give out 4-5 ads max for 1 day but it isnt really worth to click those things up
yet you do earn pennies but there are still people who do such simple task to earn few bucks.I havent tried to withdraw yet but some said it do need some KYC? thats bullshit and now
they do have issue about fixed referral link redirection? Maybe its time to uninstall this stuff out of my browser and would stick out to old IE browser. hehe

big kid

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Quote from: FFrankie on June 25, 2020, 12:29:22 AM

you gotta give kyc to withdrawal from brave thats a joke and a half

other half of the joke is the amount of BATs you receive monthly

FFrankie

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you gotta give kyc to withdrawal from brave thats a joke and a half

Bttzed03

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Quote from: RapTarX on June 21, 2020, 01:12:42 PM

Quote from: Saisher on June 21, 2020, 08:55:11 AM

Will there be a confusion because I mean Brave and Braver Browser, if they want a fork they should go for a different name, not something that is very much associated to Brave Browser,

The name is same because they are a fork of Brave browser; like bitcoin forks are more or less have bitcoin in their name. Otherwise, people will have hard time finding out the source of the browser and so does the purpose.

The name is just temporary. They plan to change it but not too soon. I wish I can send the source but I can't remember where I read that.

I personally prefer another name, something like 'Unbraved' Tongue

Quote from: buwaytress on June 24, 2020, 06:06:57 AM

~
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Braver will pick up but why the need to defend your model and diss others?

To dissuade others from leaving and kill the "competition" Grin

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Quote from: joniboini on June 22, 2020, 05:49:25 AM

The problem is with the probability and he said that because he still views it as a business. I think if Braver are positioned as a community-backed product like Bitcoin or any open-source projects that are loved by many, then donation or even contribution on the code is going to a solid backing.

It definitely won't make as many profits as any money-oriented/business apps, but it could survive.

Of course it's a business but the always-free, no-ad, donation only model is a recognised business model and has proven itself to be profitable even in fintech (if not especially). Some have definitely outlived money-oriented counterparts. I think it's just a case of sour grapes for the Brave CEO to say that about Braver.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Braver will pick up but why the need to defend your model and diss others?

bitmover

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 17, 2020, 11:23:28 AM

Quote from: TryNinja on June 17, 2020, 10:09:49 AM

They are removing all the unnecessary crap that they implemented to make money or push their own custodian services forward.

But that's kind of my point. Why take a browser filled with unnecessary crap (Chromium), try to strip that away but obviously not be able to get it all, add in a bunch of different unnecessary crap (Brave), try to strip that away but obviously not be able to get it all, and use what is left (Braver) because it has a handful of good features, when you can get all the same good features (and more) on Firefox without all the unnecessary crap even existing in the first place? All Chromium based browsers still phone home to Google in some way. Even with the best efforts of the Braver team, there is undoubtedly going to be some left over code and remnants of various bloatware and other privacy invading nonsense from both Google and Brave in there somewhere.

As you say, why not just use a clean base (Firefox) and install Metamask? Why use a browser with a ton of unnecessary crap in it just because it comes with Metamask pre-installed?

Additionally to this crazy Brave/Braver add/remove unnecessary crap, it is much better to install extension in firefox for one reason: Firefox dev team is much more active and trusted imo.

I doubt brave or braver dev team can outpace firefox dev team in keeping the browser safe, secure, free and private. Brave still have many other concerns, like promoting BAT, KYC etc... which firefox is mainly focused in that and has a much larger community support.

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Quote from: Metherry on June 23, 2020, 03:17:43 AM

Does anyone know how much profit can be made from that browser?

I don't think it's enough to get you to use a site, it's more like a bitcoin facets, right?

And then what is the development that this browser does, all the good features can be done with a small team of developers,
Just block ads is the unique feature that they offer, the rest of the things are a compilation of some features.
I think they want to achieve profits quickly and the last thing that matters to them is the protection of privacy.

will remove it.

Some real life stats (I am from Belgium).
I earned a whopping 1 BAT in may and in june I already earned 0.3 BAT. So rewards are very small, but maybe a bit more than bitcoin faucets.
Probably you will earn more if you are from a Tier 1 country.

imons

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Quote from: smyslov on June 22, 2020, 09:03:43 PM

This could become a better version without those bull s..., now we know that Brave was set up just for the developers to make tons of money, they already had their token in the market, just enough for a profit, so why those ads and the referral links, they are like hitting many birds with one stone, rewards is not really high only have less than $1 after a month with those ads.

yeah brave was so promising, but in the end its just a browser with ads and you get like couple hundred cents every month
and brave token isn't going anywhere higher and market is not bullish about it anymore
probably a lot of brave users feel a lot like fooled

Coin_trader

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Quote from: Metherry on June 23, 2020, 03:17:43 AM

Does anyone know how much profit can be made from that browser?

I don't think it's enough to get you to use a site, it's more like a bitcoin facets, right?

And then what is the development that this browser does, all the good features can be done with a small team of developers,
Just block ads is the unique feature that they offer, the rest of the things are a compilation of some features.
I think they want to achieve profits quickly and the last thing that matters to them is the protection of privacy.

will remove it.

First of all, Brave browser is just a rip off on Firefox mobile browser and I agree with you that the project just want to achieve a quick money on there ICO. There road map and target market are very limited due to competitors. There is no much profit when used there adblocker to earn BAT and the worst was you need to do KYC in able to withdraw your coins which contradicts there privacy protection policy.

Lastly, They are paying much token for referral to achieve a target user so that they can use it to hype the project even though not all user being invited are really using Brave browser after they get reward. This token giveaway really affect all investors who buy token from there pocket. The price is continuously falling due to token sell off.

Metherry

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Does anyone know how much profit can be made from that browser?

I don't think it's enough to get you to use a site, it's more like a bitcoin facets, right?

And then what is the development that this browser does, all the good features can be done with a small team of developers,
Just block ads is the unique feature that they offer, the rest of the things are a compilation of some features.
I think they want to achieve profits quickly and the last thing that matters to them is the protection of privacy.

will remove it.

smyslov

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This could become a better version without those bull s..., now we know that Brave was set up just for the developers to make tons of money, they already had their token in the market, just enough for a profit, so why those ads and the referral links, they are like hitting many birds with one stone, rewards is not really high only have less than $1 after a month with those ads.

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Quote from: pooya87 on June 22, 2020, 12:10:34 AM

i have a feeling that a very large percentage (like maybe 90%) of those who have ever used Brave browser have been using it because of its (micro) earning potential not its promise of privacy. that is why things like KYC, lack of privacy in design and a lot of other crap they pulled didn't bother their users and has not dropped the number of people who are still using it.
it is the same as all those who keep going back to faucets and use them even though it is terrible for their privacy, security and it harms them when it comes to paying fees for all the dust they've accumulated.

I agree 100%. Sometime ago, I also downloaded it and like 90-95% of the people, I did it mainly for the rewards. They do have however some nice extra features such as the built-in ad blocker, tor, faster speed compared to Chrome. But I stopped using Brave, because the rewards are too low and I don't want to do KYC with Uphold for a couple of bucks.

I don't see many people who will use Braver browser. Project is doomed.

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Quote from: buwaytress on June 22, 2020, 04:27:40 AM

A bit weird for the CEO to say Braver won't work just because it dropped revenue streams and can only rely on donations. Sure, but if it does turn out to be a good product and there are users who definitely find resonance with that, it could work why not?

The problem is with the probability and he said that because he still views it as a business. I think if Braver are positioned as a community-backed product like Bitcoin or any open-source projects that are loved by many, then donation or even contribution on the code is going to a solid backing.

It definitely won't make as many profits as any money-oriented/business apps, but it could survive.

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A bit weird for the CEO to say Braver won't work just because it dropped revenue streams and can only rely on donations. Sure, but if it does turn out to be a good product and there are users who definitely find resonance with that, it could work why not? I still use some stuff today that has always relied entirely on donations (Irfanview is one haha). Bitcoin development too, actually, if you look at it (and don't say blockstream haha).

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i have a feeling that a very large percentage (like maybe 90%) of those who have ever used Brave browser have been using it because of its (micro) earning potential not its promise of privacy. that is why things like KYC, lack of privacy in design and a lot of other crap they pulled didn't bother their users and has not dropped the number of people who are still using it.
it is the same as all those who keep going back to faucets and use them even though it is terrible for their privacy, security and it harms them when it comes to paying fees for all the dust they've accumulated.

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Quote from: Saisher on June 21, 2020, 08:55:11 AM

Will there be a confusion because I mean Brave and Braver Browser, if they want a fork they should go for a different name, not something that is very much associated to Brave Browser,

The name is same because they are a fork of Brave browser; like bitcoin forks are more or less have bitcoin in their name. Otherwise, people will have hard time finding out the source of the browser and so does the purpose.

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Quote from: Bttzed03 on June 17, 2020, 04:03:32 AM

I'm also curious how this would work. Brave CEO already said that the fork won't work without the revenue streams.

Quote from: https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269489246890389504

Clunk UX sounds like bugs to fix. Please file. But they want to drop several major revenue legs. That leaves nothing but donations for funding. Won't work.

It seems like Brave CEO either has no idea how much a useful project can collect from donations or is saying that as an attempt to thwart it since it represents a serious competitor or simply trying to find excuses to justify what they did after they got exposed.
Just take WikiPedia as an example. It has been running for years and they mainly rely on donations (no ads, no partnerships, no official sponsors...)

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Will there be a confusion because I mean Brave and Braver Browser, if they want a fork they should go for a different name, not something that is very much associated to Brave Browser, they can hold a contest on what name they can give to this fork, but this something to watch out, fork is a hot item everything something bad or controversial happens to the original project.

Bttzed03

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 17, 2020, 09:15:38 AM

~
Of course he said that. The ubiquitousness of free and open source software proves that he is wrong. I used Electrum about 10 minutes ago. What revenue streams does it have? Also, surely the fact that he has just admitted that Brave is completely dependent on funding from companies like Binance is a huge red flag? Anything Binance want - more imbedded code, unique tracking, user data - they can strong arm Brave in to implementing with he tthreat of removing their funding if they don't comply.

Not sure if Electrum is the right comparison. I brought up Firefox browser because it is also an open source project and I thought it was self-funded (and with help from donors) all this time. I wonder what would happen to them if Google backs out of the deal (or threaten to)? What I'm trying to say is he could be right that no browser will survive for a very long time if it doesn't have any type of revenue stream unless there are always kind souls who would keep on donating to cover up the cost/s.

Quote from: mk4 on June 17, 2020, 06:55:55 AM

~ as I'm expecting this one to be a bit more clunky due to probably lack of development.

Work just started and yeah, everyone doesn't expect it to be smooth right away.

Quote from: ?? on ??

I wanted to try this browser after another user mentioned it on another thread. Unfortunately, they don't provide installer since they're still in migration process and i don't want compile it from source code.

Same here.

Quote from: tomahawk9 on June 17, 2020, 09:31:27 AM

Good for the team behind this fork, but browser forks tend to go unnoticed by the majority of ppl and end up being these obscure web browsers that almost no one uses. Examples of this are Waterfox, Pale Moon, Basilisk...these are Firefox forks so maybe things will be different with Braver?

Still, either they implement cool features (even cooler if they're privacy features that actually work) or they risk joining the long list of obscure and forgotten "privacy focused" web browsers like IceCat, Iridium, Comodo Dragon, etc...

Well, it depends on the user's experience I guess. Braver came out because of Brave's actions. I don't know if I am correct on this one but I think it's the same case with Firefox and Brave. They became popular because Google f*cked its user's privacy. Of course Brave is not as popular as Chrome but you get the point...right? Grin

I just read that Braver will continue to rely on Brave's development and updates. They'll just keep on merging future updates after stripping adwares. That would mean less cost for them. I guess that could work.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

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Quote from: stompix on June 17, 2020, 11:46:28 AM

It's almost like trying to clean up windows!

Yeah, that's a great analogy.

You can sit for hours and hours with a clean install of Windows 10, changing settings, changing app permissions, uninstalling features, disabling Cortana, disabling telemetry, disabling services, deleting files, blocking connections to certain IPs, fiddling with the registry, installing third party privacy software, and still end up with a product that just can't stop sending all your data to Microsoft. Or, you could install Linux.

Quote from: stompix on June 17, 2020, 11:46:28 AM

It's not the first project that wanted to be cool and fair to its users that has tuned the opposite

Yup. As soon as there is profit to made, their ideals and the interests of their users go out the window. It's the exact same behavior as we see from various crypto exchanges or services. Protect the privacy and security of our users' information, or sell them out so we can make maximum profit? It's always option number two.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 17, 2020, 09:15:38 AM

So we take Chromium, strip out some (but certainly not all) of the privacy invasion, tracking, and data harvesting, create Brave browser, replace the all the privacy invasion we've stripped out with some of Brave's own privacy invasion, ads, KYC, etc., then take that, strip out some (but again probably not all) of Brave's privacy invasion, and call it Braver browser.

This!
It's almost like trying to clean up windows!

Yeah, it's the same noble thing we've seen with some crap coins,a community takeover, we're trying to give back the community what was once a cool browser, look we're doing something, bla bla bla, that community is dead, unfortunately. The ones that needed a real browser without crap switched to something else a long time ago, the ones that remained with brave did so for the tokens, the rest of 0.1% is something negligible that might not like the new layout and they are also out.

That thing is dead from the start and so it is Brave with all their tokens and whatever plans they had for it for the future.
It's not the first project that wanted to be cool and fair to its users that has tuned the opposite, it's not the first revival of such a project and it won't be the last.
One thing is certain, I won't touch any of them, Brave, Braver, Bravos, Bravier, Bravirium, and what other forks will surely come out of this.

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

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Quote from: TryNinja on June 17, 2020, 10:09:49 AM

They are removing all the unnecessary crap that they implemented to make money or push their own custodian services forward.

But that's kind of my point. Why take a browser filled with unnecessary crap (Chromium), try to strip that away but obviously not be able to get it all, add in a bunch of different unnecessary crap (Brave), try to strip that away but obviously not be able to get it all, and use what is left (Braver) because it has a handful of good features, when you can get all the same good features (and more) on Firefox without all the unnecessary crap even existing in the first place? All Chromium based browsers still phone home to Google in some way. Even with the best efforts of the Braver team, there is undoubtedly going to be some left over code and remnants of various bloatware and other privacy invading nonsense from both Google and Brave in there somewhere.

As you say, why not just use a clean base (Firefox) and install Metamask? Why use a browser with a ton of unnecessary crap in it just because it comes with Metamask pre-installed?

TryNinja

legendary

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on June 17, 2020, 09:15:38 AM

So we take Chromium, strip out some (but certainly not all) of the privacy invasion, tracking, and data harvesting, create Brave browser, replace the all the privacy invasion we've stripped out with some of Brave's own privacy invasion, ads, KYC, etc., then take that, strip out some (but again probably not all) of Brave's privacy invasion, and call it Braver browser.

Or..... you could use Firefox which doesn't have all this nonsense to begin with. Seems a pretty simple choice to me. If you desperately need a privacy respecting Chromium fork, then use Ungoogled Chromium.

They aren't just reversing every single change that Brave made in Chromium's base browser that made what Brave is today. They are removing all the unnecessary crap that they implemented to make money or push their own custodian services forward. It's all in the TODO list I linked above (Uphold with their KYC, Ref links, BAT features and their ads, the New Tabs adware, etc...).

I'm not sure what else Brave has besides this, but an example is keeping the Metamask integration and making it "the default web3 wallet". Could we just download Metamask extension in Firefox or Chromium? Of course, but that's another discussion. We could basically make any of these browsers "Brave" with extensions, but they decided to create their own browser for all of this.

tomahawk9

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Cats on Mars

Good for the team behind this fork, but browser forks tend to go unnoticed by the majority of ppl and end up being these obscure web browsers that almost no one uses. Examples of this are Waterfox, Pale Moon, Basilisk...these are Firefox forks so maybe things will be different with Braver?

Still, either they implement cool features (even cooler if they're privacy features that actually work) or they risk joining the long list of obscure and forgotten "privacy focused" web browsers like IceCat, Iridium, Comodo Dragon, etc...

o_e_l_e_o

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 18711

So we take Chromium, strip out some (but certainly not all) of the privacy invasion, tracking, and data harvesting, create Brave browser, replace the all the privacy invasion we've stripped out with some of Brave's own privacy invasion, ads, KYC, etc., then take that, strip out some (but again probably not all) of Brave's privacy invasion, and call it Braver browser.

Or..... you could use Firefox which doesn't have all this nonsense to begin with. Seems a pretty simple choice to me. If you desperately need a privacy respecting Chromium fork, then use Ungoogled Chromium.

Quote from: Bttzed03 on June 17, 2020, 04:03:32 AM

Brave CEO already said that the fork won't work without the revenue streams.

Of course he said that. The ubiquitousness of free and open source software proves that he is wrong. I used Electrum about 10 minutes ago. What revenue streams does it have? Also, surely the fact that he has just admitted that Brave is completely dependent on funding from companies like Binance is a huge red flag? Anything Binance want - more imbedded code, unique tracking, user data - they can strong arm Brave in to implementing with he tthreat of removing their funding if they don't comply.

TryNinja

legendary

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I also heard about them after the whole ref links fiasco, which made me stop using Brave.

Here is what they plan to change from the original Brave browser: https://github.com/braver-browser/braver-core/projects/1

xxjumperxx

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Buy Bitcoin!

I was using the brave Browser for a while until all the negative news about it came out.
This looks like a nice attempt to clean the browser out a bit and make it useable again, but I will just have an eye out on it for now and see how things develop over time.
Myself I switched to Firefox, as Chrome was not an alternative for me.
Lets see how things develop.

mk4

legendary

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Paldo.io 🤖

Well, it looks like a decent attempt to take out Brave's recent BS due to the recent fiasco. Will definitely watch it, but for now I'll stick back to Firefox(with the right plugins) as I'm expecting this one to be a bit more clunky due to probably lack of development.

Bttzed03

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https://bitcoincleanup.com/

Update: Braver is now Bold browser. Read explanations here

For those who haven't heard of it yet, it's a fork of the Brave browser.
If you are wondering why there's a sudden fork, read New stupid/greedy move from Brave Browser

~~Braver~~ Bold devs plan to keep the privacy features of Brave (built-in ad blocker, Tor, WebTorrent) and removing revenue generating features such as adware, token (BAT), sponsored images, Binance ad, and referral links.

I'm also curious how this would work. Brave CEO already said that the fork won't work without the revenue streams.

Quote from: https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1269489246890389504

Clunk UX sounds like bugs to fix. Please file. But they want to drop several major revenue legs. That leaves nothing but donations for funding. Won't work.

He also revealed that Firefox was able to survive because of the deals it had with Google:

Quote from: https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1270017546071142402

I'm a founder of http://mozilla.org, pulled Mozilla out of AOL, incubated & launched Firefox, had first contact from Google for the 2004 search deal that made Firefox viable via an affiliate code in default UX. Not replicable, forks don't inherit. Open source was not enough.

Quote from: https://twitter.com/BrendanEich/status/1270032273513971712

I was there, I'm telling you straight — ask around. Being a non-profit was not the basis for our survival & growth, the Google search deal was. By mid-2004, we'd used most of the AOL seed funding, only IBM + a few bigs paid for TAB membership. We were going down without Google.

I'm still using brave with disabled ads/refs as Firefox crashes on my device from time to time. I'm personally looking forward to using Braver but it seems like developers will have a tough time here unless they get enough funding. Any developers here who might have an idea how much it would cost to run this?

For those interested to follow the developments on ~~Braver~~ Bold browser, check links below:

Quote

~~https://twitter.com/BraverBrowser~~ https://twitter.com/BoldBrowser
https://discord.com/invite/XMAyYA4
~~https://github.com/braver-browser~~ https://github.com/BoldBrowser

Topic: Thoughts on Bold browser? - formerly Braver (Read 1084 times)