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Topic: Three perfectly good examples of how the trust system is flawed - page 2. (Read 1805 times)

member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
Three accounts:
1) Charlie Shrem aka Yankee - https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/yankee-bitinstant-21181

Scam Accusation: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/charlie-shrem-is-scammer-watch-out-817069

He was the owner of bitinstant, so he got a lot of rep back then for running such a business. HOWEVER, he has disappeared and owes over 25 BTC and has for months now. Yet he's still in the green and what many would consider a trustworthy account from the outside. The only ones who have left negative feedback are those who are not on default trust list.

2) Coinhoarder - https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/coinhoarder-67959

Scam Accusation: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/charlie-shrem-is-scammer-watch-out-817069

This one kills me. This guy bought a couple things from people trustworthy and instantly got green trust. He isn't even light green, hes a solid 7 green. He took two debts and has failed to fully pay them off (at least 1 of 5 BTC remaining). He offered a contest for 5 BTC and never paid the winner. Over a year ago. Only people who marked him of course were those who were untrusted.

CONCLUSION: The biggest flaw is that the trustworthy on this site are the old members and the old members don't spend as much time on here anymore. They also don't look for scammers or anything, the only one who does is Tomatocage. So many members USED TO BE trustworthy and gained an extensive amount of rep, however once they scam their account doesn't reach red unless they really piss off EVERYONE hence TF for example. The people who have the ability to mark someone a scammer do not participate in marking people who are proven scammers, as a scammer. Tomatocage's rep can only hurt someone who used to be trustworthy so much. Not enough people on the default trust care about correcting misgiven trust after someone turns out to be a scammer. These accounts left trustworthy are then abandoned, resold, and then used to scam further.

These two accounts are two perfectly good examples of accounts that should be in the red with the "trade with extreme caution" but are not.

Everyday almost for the past 2 months I have sent Tomatocage links to accounts that have been scamming to get them the red trust they deserve.

A third example, user Lazlo who created the thread RipDice. His site NEVER paid out. He bumped his thread for 3 months. Just recently, last week HE FINALLY was red trusted by Tomatocage after I messaged him to get it done. However, you look at the thread and so many people call him out as a scammer.

3) Lazlo - https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/lazlo-367551

RipDice Thread (read thru, you'll see the scam accusations): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ripdice-launch-promotion-5-deposit-bonus-until-november-834371

Not enough is done to combat the scammers around here. The small time lending criminals are gotten everytime but the real scams, the ones who can do real damage of 4 figures or higher are often left unnoticed or ignored completely and hence I'm almost positive if Charlie Shrem or CoinHoarder came on here they could scam easily with their accounts. Why? Cause no one has followed through with the maintaining of their trust. The trust system works two ways: 1) to add/remove trust to those that get or earn the positive or negative and 2) To maintain current trust levels of members on a regular basis, especially ones assumed to be trusted by the system.

I'm leaving bitcoin for good, but thought I would write this out as it has been one thing I have hated about this forum for awhile now.

this is really helpful!!!

thank you to let us to understand
about forum security leak.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
sucker got hacked and screwed --Toad
I'm leaving bitcoin, selling this account Saturday evening but thought I would write this out as it has been one thing I have hated about this forum for awhile now.
Buyer still wants the account after it's revealed to have changed ownership?

Good buyer.
If you look at my trust its a useless account. They're going to use it for signature campaigning probably, or for what the buyer told me he said he's giving it to his friend cause he wants his friend to spend time here on the forum but his friend hates the newbie restrictions and such. You obviously haven't read much of the forum, cause I've been purposely saying I'm selling this account and offered a price for it which was offered to me in full today, for about a week now.

Anyways please stay on topic.

You're absolutely right I don't read too much of Digital goods (which is where I assume you've been posting in about selling this account?).

The trust system here is unmoderated (though I'm sure you've heard that too many times). I see no problem with having old accounts that used to scam and are still in green as long as they don't continue scamming. If they do, then the green trust becomes a problem. I do however advocate that these accounts be neg-reped when they scam, immediately.

Since you find the current trust system inaccurate and, well, untrustworthy, what are your suggestions?

P.S. Have you seen the recent thread in Meta, Replacing DefaultTrust?

hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
Acc bought - used solely for signature testing
I'm leaving bitcoin, selling this account Saturday evening but thought I would write this out as it has been one thing I have hated about this forum for awhile now.
Buyer still wants the account after it's revealed to have changed ownership?

Good buyer.
If you look at my trust its a useless account. They're going to use it for signature campaigning probably, or for what the buyer told me he said he's giving it to his friend cause he wants his friend to spend time here on the forum but his friend hates the newbie restrictions and such. You obviously haven't read much of the forum, cause I've been purposely saying I'm selling this account and offered a price for it which was offered to me in full today, for about a week now.

Anyways please stay on topic.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
sucker got hacked and screwed --Toad
I'm leaving bitcoin, selling this account Saturday evening but thought I would write this out as it has been one thing I have hated about this forum for awhile now.
Buyer still wants the account after it's revealed to have changed ownership?

Good buyer.
hero member
Activity: 602
Merit: 500
Acc bought - used solely for signature testing
Three accounts:
1) Charlie Shrem aka Yankee - https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/yankee-bitinstant-21181

Scam Accusation: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/charlie-shrem-is-scammer-watch-out-817069

He was the owner of bitinstant, so he got a lot of rep back then for running such a business. HOWEVER, he has disappeared and owes over 25 BTC and has for months now. Yet he's still in the green and what many would consider a trustworthy account from the outside. The only ones who have left negative feedback are those who are not on default trust list.

2) Coinhoarder - https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/coinhoarder-67959

Scam Accusation: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/charlie-shrem-is-scammer-watch-out-817069

This one kills me. This guy bought a couple things from people trustworthy and instantly got green trust. He isn't even light green, hes a solid 7 green. He took two debts and has failed to fully pay them off (at least 1 of 5 BTC remaining). He offered a contest for 5 BTC and never paid the winner. Over a year ago. Only people who marked him of course were those who were untrusted.

CONCLUSION: The biggest flaw is that the trustworthy on this site are the old members and the old members don't spend as much time on here anymore. They also don't look for scammers or anything, the only one who does is Tomatocage. So many members USED TO BE trustworthy and gained an extensive amount of rep, however once they scam their account doesn't reach red unless they really piss off EVERYONE hence TF for example. The people who have the ability to mark someone a scammer do not participate in marking people who are proven scammers, as a scammer. Tomatocage's rep can only hurt someone who used to be trustworthy so much. Not enough people on the default trust care about correcting misgiven trust after someone turns out to be a scammer. These accounts left trustworthy are then abandoned, resold, and then used to scam further.

These two accounts are two perfectly good examples of accounts that should be in the red with the "trade with extreme caution" but are not.

Everyday almost for the past 2 months I have sent Tomatocage links to accounts that have been scamming to get them the red trust they deserve.

A third example, user Lazlo who created the thread RipDice. His site NEVER paid out. He bumped his thread for 3 months. Just recently, last week HE FINALLY was red trusted by Tomatocage after I messaged him to get it done. However, you look at the thread and so many people call him out as a scammer.

3) Lazlo - https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/lazlo-367551

RipDice Thread (read thru, you'll see the scam accusations): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/ripdice-launch-promotion-5-deposit-bonus-until-november-834371

Not enough is done to combat the scammers around here. The small time lending criminals are gotten everytime but the real scams, the ones who can do real damage of 4 figures or higher are often left unnoticed or ignored completely and hence I'm almost positive if Charlie Shrem or CoinHoarder came on here they could scam easily with their accounts. Why? Cause no one has followed through with the maintaining of their trust. The trust system works two ways: 1) to add/remove trust to those that get or earn the positive or negative and 2) To maintain current trust levels of members on a regular basis, especially ones assumed to be trusted by the system.

I'm leaving bitcoin for good, but thought I would write this out as it has been one thing I have hated about this forum for awhile now.
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