Throwing out an idea for buying and selling BTC with Credit cards and Paypal

bgade

full member

Activity: 151

Merit: 100

Quote from: Initscri on February 27, 2014, 11:25:57 PM

I believe it was more than that for me; don't forget PayPal or Skill charges (not to mention random fraud checks of having to send in electricity statements / valid id).

Not worth it IMO.

If you accept Visa/Mastercard with a chip at a point of sale is the risk of chargeback still the same? Or does that go away when the card and pin were physically present?

Initscri

hero member

Activity: 1582

Merit: 759

Quote from: gogodr on February 27, 2014, 10:54:41 PM

Quote from: Initscri on February 27, 2014, 09:36:02 PM

Quote from: Sukrim on February 27, 2014, 04:42:42 PM

Quote from: BurtW on February 27, 2014, 11:58:51 AM

Point: this has been tried many, many, many times - all failed.

Point: it is your time and money to lose.

Good luck!

well, virwox still sells linden dollars for PayPal and exchanges them for btc. For years now.

Still for new merchants this is no longer possible.

Yeah... But they have to charge extreme fees/rates above the actual Bitcoin value to Account for risk/loss; as well as they have many fraud prevention tactics built within their systems.

Myself I'm more than willing to pay a 10~20% fee if that means being able to buy bitcoin with my visa or paypal.

I believe it was more than that for me; don't forget PayPal or Skill charges (not to mention random fraud checks of having to send in electricity statements / valid id).

Not worth it IMO.

gogodr

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: Initscri on February 27, 2014, 09:36:02 PM

Quote from: Sukrim on February 27, 2014, 04:42:42 PM

Quote from: BurtW on February 27, 2014, 11:58:51 AM

Point: this has been tried many, many, many times - all failed.

Point: it is your time and money to lose.

Good luck!

well, virwox still sells linden dollars for PayPal and exchanges them for btc. For years now.

Still for new merchants this is no longer possible.

Yeah... But they have to charge extreme fees/rates above the actual Bitcoin value to Account for risk/loss; as well as they have many fraud prevention tactics built within their systems.

Myself I'm more than willing to pay a 10~20% fee if that means being able to buy bitcoin with my visa or paypal.

Initscri

hero member

Activity: 1582

Merit: 759

Quote from: Sukrim on February 27, 2014, 04:42:42 PM

Quote from: BurtW on February 27, 2014, 11:58:51 AM

Point: this has been tried many, many, many times - all failed.

Point: it is your time and money to lose.

Good luck!

well, virwox still sells linden dollars for PayPal and exchanges them for btc. For years now.

Still for new merchants this is no longer possible.

Yeah... But they have to charge extreme fees/rates above the actual Bitcoin value to Account for risk/loss; as well as they have many fraud prevention tactics built within their systems.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

Quote from: BurtW on February 27, 2014, 11:58:51 AM

Point: this has been tried many, many, many times - all failed.

Point: it is your time and money to lose.

Good luck!

well, virwox still sells linden dollars for PayPal and exchanges them for btc. For years now.

Still for new merchants this is no longer possible.

maxuser

newbie

Activity: 27

Merit: 0

Quote from: NLNico on February 26, 2014, 09:02:01 PM

Because when they do a charge back on ebay or amazon, they will start a dispute. And with that, the seller can show a receipt of the shipment and the charge back will be cancelled again.

Create a marketplace where peoples who need bitcoins will buy products in stores with cash for the peoples who want to sell their bitcoins... So instead of treading directly between cash and bitcoins we will trade between bitcoins and products... Later if the person really want cash he can directly resell the product...

BurtW

legendary

Activity: 2646

Merit: 1137

All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

Point: this has been tried many, many, many times - all failed.

Point: it is your time and money to lose.

Good luck!

gogodr

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

yeah, but that really narrows it down to hand to hand transactions. which restricts the bitcoin acquisition to only places that mined bitcoin initially.
there must be a way..
There is nothing to lose with banks, working together with a bank so that they make those chargebacks easier to dispute shouldn't be impossible. There is a big market for it, and a fee on each transaction should be attractive enough.

E.exchanger

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

NEED CRYPTO CODER? COIN DEVELOPER? PM US FOR HELP!

There is high risk involved in selling btc with payment reversible methods!!! The scammers will chargeback that's like 100%

BurtW

legendary

Activity: 2646

Merit: 1137

All paid signature campaigns should be banned.

The record for a charge back is over one year!

NLNico

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 1303

DiceSites.com owner

Quote from: gogodr on February 26, 2014, 09:25:43 PM

So disputing the chargeback shouldn't be hard if you have a proper business going on.

Please search a bit more through this forum. Many MANY MANY people have been scammed this way. Even legitimate businesses. PayPal doesn't care at all. You will be scammed. You will lose a lot of money.

But if you still don't believe it.. good luck Cheesy

edit: btw this problem is not completely limited to bitcoins, just read sites like www.paypalsucks.com But bitcoins are extra easy to scam for because u cannot chargeback a bitcoin, you have no physical address/info and PP will not help you with a dispute since it's against the TOS.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

Quote from: gogodr on February 26, 2014, 09:25:43 PM

then what about zynga and all the game companies that sell in game currency? they can be victims of chargebacks?
Those are virtual items too, credits which you can keep record of. (you can also keep record of bitcoins within the bitcoin protocol)
So disputing the chargeback shouldn't be hard if you have a proper business going on.

They have full control over their funds and product though, so they can either deduct the "gems" or whatever they sold from the account or likely will just ban the account alltogether. Also these things are very often not transferable between user accounts.

You have 0 power over the funds at someone else's BTC address.

KWH

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1045

In Collateral I Trust.

Quote from: gogodr on February 26, 2014, 09:25:43 PM

then what about zynga and all the game companies that sell in game currency? they can be victims of chargebacks?
Those are virtual items too, credits which you can keep record of. (you can also keep record of bitcoins within the bitcoin protocol)
So disputing the chargeback shouldn't be hard if you have a proper business going on.

If a credit card is involved, you can and will get charge backs.

gogodr

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

then what about zynga and all the game companies that sell in game currency? they can be victims of chargebacks?
Those are virtual items too, credits which you can keep record of. (you can also keep record of bitcoins within the bitcoin protocol)
So disputing the chargeback shouldn't be hard if you have a proper business going on.

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

Quote from: gogodr on February 26, 2014, 08:57:30 PM

Also.. why is this so hard? if chargebacks were as easy as everyone seems to think they are, why bitcoin? why not doing chargebacks on ebay or amazon ?

Because eBay or Amazon are not protocols but companies who can throw you out/not accept you as customer any more.

NLNico

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 1303

DiceSites.com owner

Because when they do a charge back on ebay or amazon, they will start a dispute. And with that, the seller can show a receipt of the shipment and the charge back will be cancelled again.

With bitcoins u cannot show a receipt like that. Better yet it's not allowed to sell "virtual items" like bitcoins so you will have no chance to get your money back.

gogodr

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Really? chargebacks after a whole month sounds very unreasonable.
Paypal has already shown interest in bitcoin, its not really that far fetched for paypal to do a join venture with a big exchange. (I believe the Winklevoss twins said something about they being interested in making an exchange)

Also.. why is this so hard? if chargebacks were as easy as everyone seems to think they are, why bitcoin? why not doing chargebacks on ebay or amazon ?

Sukrim

legendary

Activity: 2618

Merit: 1007

You will only be safe from chargebacks after 181 days, until then you need to treat all incoming transfers as unconfirmed. Also this is very likely against PayPal/CreditCard regulations/ToS, so they won't enter a partnership with you or close existing ones.

cloverme

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1057

SpacePirate.io

Quote from: gogodr on February 26, 2014, 08:25:02 PM

If I were the one taking the project I would make an exchange for bitcoin and altcoins and give the option to sell credits.
System: 1 Credit == 1$
But the catch is that the company will make that credits only usable a whole month after purchase. This means that in the Terms of Service it should say that the time for the credits to be valid are so that the users can perform any chargeback if they don't see fit, and as protection so that if it is a stolen card, the rightful owner haves plenty of time to perform a chargeback too.
Alongside a secondary method of authentication could speed up this process via phone as an example.

Abandon all hope. I used to sell BTC and accepted paypal, 80%... yup 80% were fraudulent. There are so many stolen credit cards and compromised account out there, it will really surprise you. No merchant will stay with you for lots of chargebacks.... or charge upwards of 20% (like verotel, etc) to accept the risk.

Keep looking into other ideas though.

NLNico

legendary

Activity: 1876

Merit: 1303

DiceSites.com owner

No, scammers can and will do chargebacks after 6 months.

Topic: Throwing out an idea for buying and selling BTC with Credit cards and Paypal (Read 1627 times)