Topic: Time to dump BTC now I say... - page 2. (Read 10031 times)

Bail out while you still can....

You're the one who compared the spreads on face to face transactions through LocalBitcoins to Western Union currency spreads.


I'm sure we can agree that bitcoin is a far more efficient payment method and the problem is typically with the recipient accepting it and/or trading for a local currency.

How about before you go jumping in face first you read through previous comments and get a little context.

This is the comment that I am essentially countering:

Yes because small, volatile markets such as bitcoin are totally comparable to established, traditional currencies. 

More terrible perhaps than Western Union?

No need to answer that, it was a rhetorical question, I already know the answer (much more injurious rates than WU).

The spread on face to face cash transactions is generally pretty terrible, especially when the market is moving quickly. Unfortunately that is what happens in a small marketplace such as LocalBitcoins.

I don't know if you are in UK or not, but for UK Bitcoiners, the 'local' exchange means Bitstamp, which deals in Euro and USD transactions. For most UK punters, there will be 3%-4% bank transfer/money changing transfers to deal with at both ends, going in and coming out. This is where LocalBitcoins comes into it's own for privacy insensitive Bitcoiners.

I only look at cash. I see no other use for localbitcoins. If I were interested in wires/transfers showing up in a bank account, I'd cash out from the exchanges.

6% is standard for bank transfer payment and indeed, during November bull run when I was desperately trying to get some cash into Bitcoin and Bitstamp verification was taking 11 fkn days, bank transfer premiums on LoclBitcoins were as high as 30%. I refused to pay it and ended up missing out on a lot of upside because of it.

However, if you are going for anonymity of cash payment, then 20% is standard even during turgid market phases. I was being generous by stating 15% to prevent some Bitcoin nutter from 'showing me up'.

Indeed, in my experience, any reputable trader on localbitcoins is charging a very hefty premium. ≥ 6%, and 20% premium (over Bitstamp) is not entirely uncommon in my area.

What source are you using for the spot price?

LOL!

In the UK, u go and try finding a trader who is willing to exchange Bitcoin for cash at anything more than 15% under spot! And that is in the UK where we have access to all modern financial tools and products....in less developed countries I would wager even higher obstacles and premiums.

Again, only really an option you would take if staying of radar of financial system was paramount.

The possibility to transfer value exists today and is way more secure and convenient than anything else. Exchanging easily for the local currencies - maybe a thing of tomorrow, or maybe a thing of the past, who knows.

But what good is 100K worth of Bitcoin to anyone that wishes to actually use it as money, if it is stuck in BTC form?

Sorry, but until such a day is reached that Bitcoin is considered 100% fungible and interchangeable with local currencies, there exists much faster, cheaper, and more secure (in terms oif knowing that your 100K aint away to take a 20% haircut mid transit) ways of shifting money around the world. Where Bitcoin has an advantage is when their is a need to keep the transaction of radar, but then there are huge premiums to be paid in converting to local currencies.

One day + it is reversible for up to 20 days. You are talking currency exchange, not "moving money around the world" now. This is a completely different topic.

As things stand, I can get money from GBP to my German €uro account for as little as 0.2% premium, and this is for amounts less than $10K USD. This takes one day. Presuming my partner wasn't wanting to spend the 100K on black market products off the internet, how can Bitcoin possibly do this cheaper or faster? Bitcoin transaction might take just 30 minutes, but BTC still needs to be cashed out and with that there will be an exchange fee, and then further fees and delays to withdraw funds from exchange, especially so if the fiat is to be exchanged into any currency other than USD or Euro.

Oh really? Enlighten the world please, you must posses some hidden knowledge. You need to transfer 100k usd from europe to your partner in states in an irreversible manner with costs around 10$, without using bitcoin, and if possible without the risk of your money being stolen. Explain how.

With bitcoin, it takes me all of 1 second while not picking up a phone or going anywhere + 1 hour wait before the partner is completely sure the money is his. There plainly is no such financial instrument in traditional world, for any money. It is a multi-day process in the best case and involved a ton of confirmations, calls, faxes, walking, signing, whatever, all the 20-century old school mumbo jumbo. We don't drive horses to work anymore, why must the world  still rely on a written ink signatures that anybody could falsify for all of the important deals and finances? Seems archaic and stupid.

Well I guess all I can say to this is that we see is what we become ourselves. If I perceive the market as vile and dirty, I become vile and dirty myself when I participate in that market. I however perceive the market as a good thing, a force that moves in a kind of predictable manner if you have a good understanding and insight into the fundamentals and/or the technicals. The bots and manipulators don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. You can't always get it right, but for the longer term I'm confident I'm not wasting my time and money on this. And even for day trading you can do well in the long run if you stick to a favorable risk/reward ratio and have your shit together. Most people however do not and will lose money with sloppy and emotional day trading.

Let me tell you that I have bought my first bitcoins at the top of the bubble in April after following the entire rise as a bear waiting for a dip to buy in. I was a noob back then and didn't know that when the most stubborn bear turns bull, the market will turn around. My average entry point just before the April crash was around $200, and I held during almost the entire crash to $50 putting me deeper into the red than you probably have ever been. My luck was that I was not all in yet, although I wasn't really planning on buying more at that time. But instead of selling at a loss I decided to double down and buy more on the dips to lower my average entry point. I managed to lower my average entry point to around $100-110 in June, but then I decided to spend 88 BTC on a KNC Jupiter and well about half of those BTC I will never see back. So even with mistakes like this I am now sitting at around a 500% ROI after sitting at -400% to -200% ROI for a couple months after April. Patience and a strong believe in the bitcoin protocol rewarded me, and so it can reward you I think. But not with your current attitude, I believe you will hang on to your shorts for too long until it's too late and then you will be too scared to buy back in and get slaughtered.

looks like several assholes did it