Tip: accepting paypal more safely! | Bitcointalksearch.org

FLHippy

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Quote from: CrazyGuy on October 27, 2012, 07:50:44 PM

FLHippy, how much have you sold on Ebay? You haven't been hassled by Paypal for selling currency?(indirectly)

I've been selling coins on eBay since a few months before the crash last year.

I have not had any problems with eBay or PayPal. I have been scammed 3 times (Early on) and avoided dozens of scam attempts. I have worked with eBay and PayPal's reporting systems to report scammers/stolen accounts. Usually before their owners even know their account has been stolen.

I'm very small time. a handful of coins a week on eBay. I recently started selling more coins on eBay with the introduction of bitcoin notes that allow me to sell a physical product which people are accepting more than my previous physical product which only had an address and a private key printed out on plain paper with instructions on how to import the key.

I sell more coins off eBay to a small group of local people who buy from me infrequently with cash.

CrazyGuy

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FLHippy, how much have you sold on Ebay? You haven't been hassled by Paypal for selling currency?(indirectly)

FLHippy

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Merit: 101

Quote from: Flowz on October 20, 2012, 09:32:03 AM

Hi,

It seems that a lot of people are having problems with chargebacks on paypal.
In most cases you will lose the dispute and the scammer will win.

Golden tip:
1. Accept the payment as GOODS. (Not as gift or anything else, ask them to pay you as if they bought a good).
2. Make them go to the payment page and make them click the "confirm receipt" button.

-> So the buyer says that he has received his item.

When the user/scammer opens a dispute you can simply bring up that they have clicked the "confirm receipt" button and that they have received their goods.

PS: They can bring up a dispute under the catergory "item is not as described" but you'll have to prove them otherwise then.

I would like to add more information to this. My experiences involve eBay/PayPal sales.

NEVER offer digital delivery of bitcoins, ship them a physical product.
ALWAYS use the integrated paypal shipping! The price is actually very reasonable and the process is very simple when compared to stamps.com or usps.gov.
ALWAYS use delivery confirmation. Also use signature confirmation for anything over $100.
ONLY ship to addresses which are confirmed.
Do not make the sale unless the "Seller Protection" flag is set to eligible.

Accepting PayPal is a risk, this should be known up front and always kept in mind. Manage your risk the best you can and you'll do OK.

Here are some red flags to look out for.
Buyer does not respond to emails sent directly but does respond to messages sent through eBay internal messaging.
Buyer wants to get digital delivery instead of physical product and pushes hard to get it.
Buyer's feedback is set to private.
Buyer has not bought anything in a very long time.
Buyer is dealing with you for the first time and has made a very large purchase.

Always be on the lookout for scammers, view your buyers feedback, search for their nick online.
Even if you do everything right, chargebacks will still happen from time to time. Factor this into your pricing.

Flowz

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Bitcoin = Money for the people, by the people.

Quote from: farlack on October 25, 2012, 06:56:47 PM

Paypal can and will refund even if it was sent as payment, gift, completed services, owed money, sent money, etc.. It doesn't matter how the money was transferred.

That's why they must agree that they have received the purchased goods.
It will be a lot harder to claim the money back then.

gigica viteazu`

sr. member

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beast at work

Quote from: TheButterZone on October 25, 2012, 07:35:06 PM

PayPal has and will refund up to 180 days.

really ?

tkx for the info

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

PayPal has and will refund up to 180 days. So seriously, if you want to use PayPal+BTC, do nothing but buy yourself BTC with PayPal, don't be a criminal, and expect tons of suspicion.

farlack

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Paypal can and will refund even if it was sent as payment, gift, completed services, owed money, sent money, etc.. It doesn't matter how the money was transferred.

px403

newbie

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I have had my paypal account banned for selling coins, and I never had a chargeback (was only selling to high reputation customers). My theory is the spike in volume of my paypal account triggered an audit, and they saw my IPN callback was set to a bitcoin related website.

TheButterZone

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RIP Mommy

?

🏰 TradeFortress 🏰

vip

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Service: "Compiling application from source".

* source code includes private keys of a wallet with 2 BTC in it

BCB

vip

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BCJ

The biggest issue is you need to have a real life connection to a PP purchaser. email, mobile phone, ip address, ID for large amount. That way they are somewhat accountable and know that you can track them down if they try to defraud you. Even if paypal refunds the transactions you have the possibility to to pursue legal means for repayment.

Most scammers will just disappear once you start asking them for any type of info. The ideal for a scammer is for you send your money or bitcoins off into the ether.

Evolvex

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I've found getting people to contact me via email, and other social media helps me feel a bit better about taking paypal, havent seen a chargeback yet - I think you just need to use your judgement with some people.

Might look into self employment with paypal though - sounds like a better more secure way of doing it.

SaintDevil

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Web Programmer, Gamer

Quote from: Flowz on October 20, 2012, 09:32:03 AM

Hi,

It seems that a lot of people are having problems with chargebacks on paypal.
In most cases you will lose the dispute and the scammer will win.

Golden tip:
1. Accept the payment as GOODS. (Not as gift or anything else, ask them to pay you as if they bought a good).
2. Make them go to the payment page and make them click the "confirm receipt" button.

-> So the buyer says that he has received his item.

When the user/scammer opens a dispute you can simply bring up that they have clicked the "confirm receipt" button and that they have received their goods.

PS: They can bring up a dispute under the catergory "item is not as described" but you'll have to prove them otherwise then.

I am assuming you are asking them to confirm receipt before you send out bitcoins, right?

ercolinux

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Another way is to send to the buyer with a trackable mail service a copy of the transaction (from blockchain.info and from paypal). At least a chargeback here in Italy was rejected by paypal with this method (here's the topic in italian https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106657.20)

moni3z

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Quote from: BCB on October 20, 2012, 07:07:54 PM

Quote from: moni3z on October 20, 2012, 07:02:56 PM

You would obviously want to accept the payment as 'service', because goods could mean copyright violation, drugs, all sorts of things paypal flags.

You would set up an anonymous paypal account with a debit card attached so you can withdraw the money in full before sending any coins. If there's later a problem who cares just throw that account away and use a new anon account.

Using your actual real paypal account tied to your bank account is asking to be screwed royally in mouth and ass later when problems happen. If you're American they can claw money out of your actual bank account and when you phone your bank to complain they say sorry nothing we can do go ask paypal. Since paypal has no phone numbers with anybody besides a guy in India answering that knows nothing you'll have to fax legal shit galore to them and wait a couple of years to sort it out.

moni3z,

Thanks for you input but not a single statement in your post has and ounce of validity.

FAIL

Really because I worked for PayPal in 2006, and used it to trade for Liberty Reserve a decade ago. Enjoy living in a bubble, let me know when they come after your money

BCB

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BCJ

Quote from: moni3z on October 20, 2012, 07:02:56 PM

You would obviously want to accept the payment as 'service', because goods could mean copyright violation, drugs, all sorts of things paypal flags.

You would set up an anonymous paypal account with a debit card attached so you can withdraw the money in full before sending any coins. If there's later a problem who cares just throw that account away and use a new anon account.

Using your actual real paypal account tied to your bank account is asking to be screwed royally in mouth and ass later when problems happen. If you're American they can claw money out of your actual bank account and when you phone your bank to complain they say sorry nothing we can do go ask paypal. Since paypal has no phone numbers with anybody besides a guy in India answering that knows nothing you'll have to fax legal shit galore to them and wait a couple of years to sort it out.

moni3z,

Thanks for you input but not a single statement in your post has and ounce of validity.

FAIL

moni3z

hero member

Activity: 899

Merit: 1002

You would obviously want to accept the payment as 'service', because goods could mean copyright violation, drugs, all sorts of things paypal flags.

You would set up an anonymous paypal account with a debit card attached so you can withdraw the money in full before sending any coins. If there's later a problem who cares just throw that account away and use a new anon account.

Using your actual real paypal account tied to your bank account is asking to be screwed royally in mouth and ass later when problems happen. If you're American they can claw money out of your actual bank account and when you phone your bank to complain they say sorry nothing we can do go ask paypal. Since paypal has no phone numbers with anybody besides a guy in India answering that knows nothing you'll have to fax legal shit galore to them and wait a couple of years to sort it out.

paraipan

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Quote from: Flowz on October 20, 2012, 10:59:59 AM

Quote from: SaltySpitoon on October 20, 2012, 09:44:00 AM

Branching off of this a little, you can mark it as payment owed, and then have them write a little note saying that they have received their product, everything is as described, and this is for payment owed.

Or better yet, have them mark it as payment owed for a service, and then think up of some stupid service that you could have done.

I haven't had experience with that way but it looks like it works

Or you could register as Self-employed with paypal and send an invoice to your buyers, that includes the fees and taxes you pay in your state. If you happen to have a rogue client that charges back, paypal takes the hit without even telling you about it, they have that covered with the hefty fees all their users have to pay. I know this because is the only way I sold bitcoins over paypal in the last few months and my account is still in good standing, even though I was not sure of some of the sales. Btw, make sure you declare and pay your taxes as IRS can cross reference some info paypal provides about businesses using their platform.

~~There you have it, a way to sell bitcoins for paypal without risk of fraud, for the bitcoin sellers off course.~~
Scrape that, you can still suffer from reversed payments.

Flowz

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Bitcoin = Money for the people, by the people.

Quote from: SaltySpitoon on October 20, 2012, 09:44:00 AM

Branching off of this a little, you can mark it as payment owed, and then have them write a little note saying that they have received their product, everything is as described, and this is for payment owed.

Or better yet, have them mark it as payment owed for a service, and then think up of some stupid service that you could have done.

I haven't had experience with that way but it looks like it works

SaltySpitoon

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Welcome to the SaltySpitoon, how Tough are ya?

Branching off of this a little, you can mark it as payment owed, and then have them write a little note saying that they have received their product, everything is as described, and this is for payment owed.

Or better yet, have them mark it as payment owed for a service, and then think up of some stupid service that you could have done.

Topic: Tip: accepting paypal more safely! (Read 3442 times)