Tips for trading strategy in STOP LOSS - page 2.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: OcTradism on September 18, 2024, 09:14:50 PM

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But for "trying" strategies, there's a back-test feature available in TradingView.

Yes, people who want to use trading scripts, bots, can do Back-Test and assess efficiency of the scripts, bots before using it with real fund.

It doesn't need to be for the use of trading scripts/bots. Systems traders can do their back-tests to find out if their strategies are feasible and profitable enough.

One example of a systems-based strategy is the Pi Cycle Top, and Pi Cycle Bottom. Cool

DYOR!

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Stay responsible = Use stop-loss

It's one of best weapons against massive loss in this volatile market.

One of the Best Weapons in Trading: stop loss order

Plus use less leverage, or use enough for a portion of your capital, especially if you're trading in a centralized exchange.

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Quote from: OcTradism on September 18, 2024, 09:14:50 PM

It's one of best weapons against massive loss in this volatile market.

One of the Best Weapons in Trading: stop loss order

I have mentioned it before in the years of chatting on Trading forum here, I see SL as the basics. It's like, non-negotiable.

So I still find it weird that people trading can talk about SL as if it's the miracle making savior.

If you drive a car, before you even start the engine you put on seatbelt. It's basic driving 101. You even fail your driving test if you didn't do that. So imagine if drivers started thinking, 'wow the best weapon against injury/death in accidents is a seatbelt'. That would be stupid, right? You can say the best weapon is defensive driving, assisted supervision, good material in car etc. But the seatbelt is not the best weapon, it should be standard.

Same as SL in trading. If you're not using it, you shouldn't be trading. Period. It's not the best weapon, it's the prerequisite.

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Quote from: tvplus006 on September 17, 2024, 04:42:53 PM

Of course, each trader adheres to his own strategy, but if you average a position, then you increase the risks in this way. And if, as a result, the price moves in the opposite direction to your expectations, your loss will be as many times higher as the amount of the order you have increased.

Well, I often sell half of the position whenever price gets fixed and so far I haven't lost any money with my strategy. I'm someone who only trades Bitcoin with this strategy and sometimes a few less volatile coins, and I haven't yet encountered any loss with it.

I'm not in hurry in opening and closing of my trades and I believe that's the reason why I haven't had any losses with the strategy. Sometimes market moves pretty strangely then in such conditions it's 10x better to go with stop loss instead of averaging.

OcTradism

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 18, 2024, 09:02:59 AM

It's essential to make what bigger? I was talking about stop-losses and how THAT makes trading mistakes "small" because stop-losses limit how much an individual might lose. It's not a comment about the size of the positions.

If a trader fails to understand risk in the market, importance of Stop-Loss order, and refuse to use this order to defend his trading capital, to either closing the position with a draw or minimal loss, it's big risk in trading.

If that trader fails to do that with a small trading fund, with a small-size trading position, he will fail with bigger trading capital and get bigger loss. Results would be the same with similar trading style.

There is also another weapon to defend trading capital: Stop-Limit order.

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But for "trying" strategies, there's a back-test feature available in TradingView.

Yes, people who want to use trading scripts, bots, can do Back-Test and assess efficiency of the scripts, bots before using it with real fund.

Quote

Stay responsible = Use stop-loss

It's one of best weapons against massive loss in this volatile market.

One of the Best Weapons in Trading: stop loss order

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: fikrett on September 16, 2024, 01:37:21 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 16, 2024, 01:19:31 AM

You should merely follow your own rules and trade accordingly to avoid making bigger "mistakes". Preserving capital should be your first priority.

You are right. Afterward, it's essential to make it bigger, but if there are no funds or capital to try strategies out, there won't be a possibility for doing so.

?

It's essential to make what bigger? I was talking about stop-losses and how THAT makes trading mistakes "small" because stop-losses limit how much an individual might lose. It's not a comment about the size of the positions.

But for "trying" strategies, there's a back-test feature available in TradingView.

Quote

It's essential to stay responsible and true to yourself regarding different situations where you are tempted into something that may cause bad consequences in the future.

Stay responsible = Use stop-loss

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Quote from: slaman29 on September 16, 2024, 06:57:08 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 15, 2024, 05:50:45 AM

Quote from: slaman29 on September 10, 2024, 06:31:08 AM

Have to agree. Any trader that says don't use stop loss is a bad trader. It is simply irresponsible to teach or advice that. Like you said, the only situation where there's no SL required is holding. Then again, true holding doesn't even need an open order

Plus having an open orders will have fees. You don't need to pay the exchanges merely for holding. There's also safety and security risks for holding your capital in those exchanges. They should be paying YOU for giving them your trust and taking such risks. Cool

And that's not even talking about the "goodbye" risks exactly. You can lose it to a hack, lose it to a rogue CEO, so many ways to lose money, people just don't understand until they are bitten. Look at this forum, in the old days, very experienced and early BTC adopters held on MtGox it's unthinkable now!

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 15, 2024, 05:50:45 AM

Quote from: slaman29 on September 10, 2024, 06:31:08 AM

What is a 'good trading pair' anyway? So good that there will not be flash crashes? Futures is where leverage people go to play, no SL is suicide.

It's where 90% of people learn, the hard way, that they're actually gambling.

I WISH 90% of people learn they're actually gambling. I see traders after 5 years, after 10 years, doing futures on x100 leverage without SL and they still think they're trading.

- Entering futures trading without SL but with 100x leverage is just putting their fund at risk, it's like they're just gambling and they don't really have an understanding of trading. Particularly if the matter is technical analysis.

A lot of funds are dissolved in futures that do not or do not use SL, especially if they are set-up on cross margin, their funds will be lost for sure.

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Quote from: X-ray on September 18, 2024, 02:54:56 AM

...been doing exactly what he's doing in the past, it might seems good with averaging, we keep increasing our average price, but there's always a catch, this strategy only works for people with unlimited money to keep maintaining their margin.

This opinion in relation to averaging comes from the fact that sometimes after averaging, the market turns around and the trader gets the best entry price into the position. But this solution is comparable to a casino. Ideally, it is necessary to wait for confirmation of such a reversal and only then open a new position.

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Quote from: tvplus006 on September 17, 2024, 04:42:53 PM

Quote from: SamReomo on September 17, 2024, 04:35:28 PM

I personally try my best to avoid stop losses and fix my position with averaging...

Of course, each trader adheres to his own strategy, but if you average a position, then you increase the risks in this way. And if, as a result, the price moves in the opposite direction to your expectations, your loss will be as many times higher as the amount of the order you have increased.

averaging in future contract is like trying to get ourselves bankrupt, people can average as much as they can but there's always chance the market just keep going on opposite direction of our position, SL is more effective in managing risk, if our SL hits and want to reopen position, we can just reopen with better price and got the head start plus remaking technical analysis on top of that.

been doing exactly what he's doing in the past, it might seems good with averaging, we keep increasing our average price, but there's always a catch, this strategy only works for people with unlimited money to keep maintaining their margin.

tvplus006

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Quote from: SamReomo on September 17, 2024, 04:35:28 PM

I personally try my best to avoid stop losses and fix my position with averaging...

Of course, each trader adheres to his own strategy, but if you average a position, then you increase the risks in this way. And if, as a result, the price moves in the opposite direction to your expectations, your loss will be as many times higher as the amount of the order you have increased.

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I personally try my best to avoid stop losses and fix my position with averaging but sometimes using of stop loss is necessary and in such times I use first type of stop loss strategy that OP mentioned. I believe most traders use the 1st type that's percentage based stop loss, and instead of 2% I sometimes risk 5% to see it the market shifts or not if it doesn't then my stop loss order gets triggered otherwise I hold the position until it becomes green in PNL.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 16, 2024, 01:19:31 AM

It's definitely better to make a small mistake with taking a small loss if the trade didn't go as expected, than punishing yourself into holding the position with a bigger loss while waiting for the asset to recover. Your position will either get liquidated, OR you will take the bigger loss because you want the "punishment" to stop. Hahaha.

It'll be better if the market wasn't going to recover but if the market is going to recover, you're better off hodling than selling. To make this decision we have to consider the project that we're trading. For Bitcoin trade, there's a certainty that the market is going to recover and you don't have to sell to minimize your loss when you can hodl and maximize your potential gains. The project that we're trading should decide the decisions we're to make and not to view all the projects as one. Trading altcoins, it's better you sell to minimize losses and reopen the trade later.

Stop loss is a vital option to have when trading and for those traders that are trading without a stop loss, they're taking very big risk as there will be no leverage that they're going to have against the market when it's dumping. Stop loss should be fixed about 10% from your entry price and that's all I can add for now.

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Quote from: Nrcewker on September 09, 2024, 12:47:21 PM

I have another opinion regarding stop loss. If you are trading futures and choose good trading pairs, then I would advise you not to put any stop loss. Instead, set “take profit” at a certain percentage. For example, you can take the trading pair of BTC/USDT and can always open a LONG trade whenever you find BTC under 55k. As we know, Bitcoin doesn’t fall very low, and always more people will buy it to increase the price again. Hence, in this manner, you can really make a good profit. You just have to make sure that you have good balance for the trade and the leverage is in control.

Stop loss is actually a great measure against any disaster that might occur so that you won't be losing more than expected because when you do futures their are various occasions that you will lose money but when you have your stop loss is place. And I know that their situation that you will want to risk and do take profit but when you are taking profit i will go with the suggestions of always going with the pair of BTC/ USDT and if you looking at this are small information that you need to trade and take long under 55k is might make you profit because you won't always be the lucky one. But when you understand the needful when to take risk you do stop loss and that will be determined by the result you are getting from your technical analysis, and that ia why studying ia very important. With this knowledge you will be able to put everything under control and any way you just have to always cut your loses short.

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Quote from: justdimin on September 17, 2024, 01:01:02 AM

Quote from: slaman29 on September 16, 2024, 06:57:08 AM

And that's not even talking about the "goodbye" risks exactly. You can lose it to a hack, lose it to a rogue CEO, so many ways to lose money, people just don't understand until they are bitten. Look at this forum, in the old days, very experienced and early BTC adopters held on MtGox it's unthinkable now!

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It is not risk taking, it is gambling and they are doing it because they are bored of small income they can make. Making 20-30% even 50% a year is boring in crypto after you work so much, so they want 100% in a day and just get rich in a year and retire, which is not going to happen at all and we can't really jump into making that much money, it's unrealistic and becomes gambling when we do that and we should avoid that if we can, that is the most important part.

20% a year would be amazing, I don't think anyone would make that even if they were a Grade A trader. To consistently make 20% a year, bull or bear, not even the world's top funds in crypto have made that much which also tells you, that they themselves are also taking gambling approach.

You know who makes 20% average long term? Holders

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Quote from: slaman29 on September 16, 2024, 06:57:08 AM

And that's not even talking about the "goodbye" risks exactly. You can lose it to a hack, lose it to a rogue CEO, so many ways to lose money, people just don't understand until they are bitten. Look at this forum, in the old days, very experienced and early BTC adopters held on MtGox it's unthinkable now!

Unfortunately those people are even mostly aware of the mistakes they are doing and they just consider it as just a risk taking and when they label it as taking a risk they think that they are doing something right. Because they could potentially make some money and because of that they think it's fine but the reality is that we are making a mistake if we are not doing this properly and because of that we can't really consider this as a good thing just because they label it taking a risk.

It is not risk taking, it is gambling and they are doing it because they are bored of small income they can make. Making 20-30% even 50% a year is boring in crypto after you work so much, so they want 100% in a day and just get rich in a year and retire, which is not going to happen at all and we can't really jump into making that much money, it's unrealistic and becomes gambling when we do that and we should avoid that if we can, that is the most important part.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 15, 2024, 05:50:45 AM

Quote from: slaman29 on September 10, 2024, 06:31:08 AM

Have to agree. Any trader that says don't use stop loss is a bad trader. It is simply irresponsible to teach or advice that. Like you said, the only situation where there's no SL required is holding. Then again, true holding doesn't even need an open order

Plus having an open orders will have fees. You don't need to pay the exchanges merely for holding. There's also safety and security risks for holding your capital in those exchanges. They should be paying YOU for giving them your trust and taking such risks. Cool

And that's not even talking about the "goodbye" risks exactly. You can lose it to a hack, lose it to a rogue CEO, so many ways to lose money, people just don't understand until they are bitten. Look at this forum, in the old days, very experienced and early BTC adopters held on MtGox it's unthinkable now!

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 15, 2024, 05:50:45 AM

Quote from: slaman29 on September 10, 2024, 06:31:08 AM

What is a 'good trading pair' anyway? So good that there will not be flash crashes? Futures is where leverage people go to play, no SL is suicide.

It's where 90% of people learn, the hard way, that they're actually gambling.

I WISH 90% of people learn they're actually gambling. I see traders after 5 years, after 10 years, doing futures on x100 leverage without SL and they still think they're trading.

tvplus006

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Quote from: Nrcewker on September 09, 2024, 12:47:21 PM

...As we know, Bitcoin doesn’t fall very low, and always more people will buy it to increase the price again. Hence, in this manner, you can really make a good profit. You just have to make sure that you have good balance for the trade and the leverage is in control.

Do you think that a 20% price reduction in just one day is not a big deal for Bitcoin, as it was just recently, on August 4? And if you add x10 leverage to this, it is easy to understand that in this case the trader's deposit will be liquidated. And when I see that the liquidation at the dump was $1 billion, I understand that these traders ignore the use of stop loss.

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Quote from: Barikui1 on September 16, 2024, 05:13:43 AM

Quote from: slaman29 on September 10, 2024, 06:31:08 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 10, 2024, 03:25:00 AM

Quote from: Nrcewker on September 09, 2024, 12:47:21 PM

I have another opinion regarding stop loss. If you are trading futures and choose good trading pairs, then I would advise you not to put any stop loss.

That's actually, VERY bad advise there ser. Because if you're not going to put ANY stop-loss, then merely hold spot, NOT futures.

Have to agree. Any trader that says don't use stop loss is a bad trader. It is simply irresponsible to teach or advice that. Like you said, the only situation where there's no SL required is holding. Then again, true holding doesn't even need an open order

What is a 'good trading pair' anyway? So good that there will not be flash crashes? Futures is where leverage people go to play, no SL is suicide.

Well you are actually right on this bro, not using stop loss is actually not ideal if you want to manage your risk properly, though their are so many traders that I knew of that trade without stop loss, but one thing I Know off that they usually do is that, they trade first of all calculate their loss before their profit, like trading with an amount they can afford to lose, so that if things doesn't go their way, they are very much certain that their loss wouldn't affect them that much.

So in essence of what am trying to say is that using stop loss is very much good, and it's one of the best way to manage your risk properly in trading, but their are some other ways of managing risk in trading besides using stop loss.

The stop loss is really a big help to us traders because it teaches us to practice ourselves in preventing a big loss in the trading activity that we will do in the exchange. Through this, we can really limit the loss in case the analysis we made on the chart of a platform exchange is wrong.

So SL plays a big role in our traders; honestly speaking, all those with deep knowledge in trading will understand this, and they will not just put aside SL when they have done trading activity in the exchange.

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Quote from: slaman29 on September 10, 2024, 06:31:08 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 10, 2024, 03:25:00 AM

Quote from: Nrcewker on September 09, 2024, 12:47:21 PM

I have another opinion regarding stop loss. If you are trading futures and choose good trading pairs, then I would advise you not to put any stop loss.

That's actually, VERY bad advise there ser. Because if you're not going to put ANY stop-loss, then merely hold spot, NOT futures.

Have to agree. Any trader that says don't use stop loss is a bad trader. It is simply irresponsible to teach or advice that. Like you said, the only situation where there's no SL required is holding. Then again, true holding doesn't even need an open order

What is a 'good trading pair' anyway? So good that there will not be flash crashes? Futures is where leverage people go to play, no SL is suicide.

Well you are actually right on this bro, not using stop loss is actually not ideal if you want to manage your risk properly, though their are so many traders that I knew of that trade without stop loss, but one thing I Know off that they usually do is that, they trade first of all calculate their loss before their profit, like trading with an amount they can afford to lose, so that if things doesn't go their way, they are very much certain that their loss wouldn't affect them that much.

So in essence of what am trying to say is that using stop loss is very much good, and it's one of the best way to manage your risk properly in trading, but their are some other ways of managing risk in trading besides using stop loss.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 16, 2024, 01:19:31 AM

You should merely follow your own rules and trade accordingly to avoid making bigger "mistakes". Preserving capital should be your first priority.

You are right. Afterward, it's essential to make it bigger, but if there are no funds or capital to try strategies out, there won't be a possibility for doing so. It's essential to stay responsible and true to yourself regarding different situations where you are tempted into something that may cause bad consequences in the future.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: shinratensei_ on September 15, 2024, 11:31:08 PM

my strategy is to stop loss at support + small percentage for compensation and move the SL to entry when the price mark is already good enough for it to hardly fall.

I find it the best since having floating loss below support is not worth it to hold because it means it has higher chance of going deeper to touch another support.

It's definitely better to make a small mistake with taking a small loss if the trade didn't go as expected, than punishing yourself into holding the position with a bigger loss while waiting for the asset to recover. Your position will either get liquidated, OR you will take the bigger loss because you want the "punishment" to stop. Hahaha.

Quote

but it's still 50:50 you know, even having SL in support doesn't mean the market won't touch it and then bounce back after few minutes making our SL harmful to our asset and rather useless.

You should merely follow your own rules and trade accordingly to avoid making bigger "mistakes". Preserving capital should be your first priority.

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