It's the human side of informatics... people works with different levels of trust. By some reason Maddoff managed to run his scheme for so long.
I didn't like that some accounting auditor got his hands in a password dump, but, as human, I understand what went on there.
Topic: To Magical Tux - page 3. (Read 10467 times)
If they send the whole Database or DVD then I would question the competency level of an organization or individual with my money or confidential information. I would hope that most businesses would understand that you only send what is needed to get the job done and nothing more. If they do not understand that or take short cuts on their own accord to make it easier for themselves then I would take my business else where.
I don't get too why the hashes where sent out to some 'auditor'. And who the hell is that auditor anyway.
i give all my support to Mt Gox
Well this extend I understand what went on. One time I asked for a db structure to implement a module for a hospital, instead of the structure they sent me a DVD with the whole db contents (means medical records of practically everybody in that town).
Is that "practical" export button and its default options...
If they send the whole Database or DVD then I would question the competency level of an organization or individual with my money or confidential information. I would hope that most businesses would understand that you only send what is needed to get the job done and nothing more. If they do not understand that or take short cuts on their own accord to make it easier for themselves then I would take my business else where.
-Dukejer
Where are the updates? The silence is deafening.
I'm just saying...
The unlikely "benefit" of whoever getting caught isn't worth the definite minus of inviting the Feds behind the curtains.
I'm not mad at MtGox for getting hacked. They're a huge target and in some ways a hack was inevitable. They've handled the hack as well as possible with the shutdown, audit and rollback.
However, I have a BIG PROBLEM with MtGox contacting the CIA or FBI or whoever. It's bad enough that I have to worry about whoever getting my information from the leaked database. Now I have to worry about the Feds looking through my account and coming for my bitcoins? Hell no...
This isn't the first time that MtGx has considered running to the Feds:
http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z
If you think that the Feds are friends of BTC or that their involvement is going to help the BTC community in any way, then you're sorely mistaken.
MagicalTux, don't be a stupid snitch. Improve your security and learn your lesson, otherwise I'll be joining the tradehill exodus....
However, I have a BIG PROBLEM with MtGox contacting the CIA or FBI or whoever. It's bad enough that I have to worry about whoever getting my information from the leaked database. Now I have to worry about the Feds looking through my account and coming for my bitcoins? Hell no...
This isn't the first time that MtGx has considered running to the Feds:
http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z
If you think that the Feds are friends of BTC or that their involvement is going to help the BTC community in any way, then you're sorely mistaken.
MagicalTux, don't be a stupid snitch. Improve your security and learn your lesson, otherwise I'll be joining the tradehill exodus....
I think MagicalTux position is that the best place to be relative your enemy, is very close to him, so you can watch his movements, and cloud your intentions.
I think you do not understand that the Feds will get involved no matter what after the Senators vs. Silk Road issue.
Now is a matter of doing it in a sort of controlled manner. It is best to show up to Feds as friend, than to show up as a libertarian (thus anti-rep and anti-dem, the current government) enemy of sorts.
We do not want to become Waco
Honestly, you're softening my heart somewhat and it's a dicey situation.
I like the Waco comparison too. haha. But I don't think appeasement is an appropriate response to state violence. As a market anarchist "enemy of the state", I still say the Feds are a bad idea.
Best of luck to MagicalTux though! Please don't mention my name and don't drop the soap.
Right now, this can go one of two radically different ways:
1) Mt.Gox has been lying, all or most of the BTC within are lost, gone, never to be seen again. Though not a final blow to the BTC idea, it will take a very long time to recover.
2) Mt.Gox reopens, with new and improved security. Everyone who had BTC with them can access them easily, they're still by far the largest and most liquid exchange. If they've learnt from this experience, it will only benefit the rest of us.
From what I've been able to see, the actions and response from MT have been pretty spot on, if things are exactly as he claims. If they aren't, they are not.
What I'm saying is that there seems to be very little room for a middle ground here. It will either be a devastating punch against bitcoin, or it will serve to reinforce it and make it stronger than ever. Reopening the exchange and giving us all greater transparency would go a long way towards proving the latter.
1) Mt.Gox has been lying, all or most of the BTC within are lost, gone, never to be seen again. Though not a final blow to the BTC idea, it will take a very long time to recover.
2) Mt.Gox reopens, with new and improved security. Everyone who had BTC with them can access them easily, they're still by far the largest and most liquid exchange. If they've learnt from this experience, it will only benefit the rest of us.
From what I've been able to see, the actions and response from MT have been pretty spot on, if things are exactly as he claims. If they aren't, they are not.
What I'm saying is that there seems to be very little room for a middle ground here. It will either be a devastating punch against bitcoin, or it will serve to reinforce it and make it stronger than ever. Reopening the exchange and giving us all greater transparency would go a long way towards proving the latter.
I'm just saying...
The unlikely "benefit" of whoever getting caught isn't worth the definite minus of inviting the Feds behind the curtains.
I'm not mad at MtGox for getting hacked. They're a huge target and in some ways a hack was inevitable. They've handled the hack as well as possible with the shutdown, audit and rollback.
However, I have a BIG PROBLEM with MtGox contacting the CIA or FBI or whoever. It's bad enough that I have to worry about whoever getting my information from the leaked database. Now I have to worry about the Feds looking through my account and coming for my bitcoins? Hell no...
This isn't the first time that MtGx has considered running to the Feds:
http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z
If you think that the Feds are friends of BTC or that their involvement is going to help the BTC community in any way, then you're sorely mistaken.
MagicalTux, don't be a stupid snitch. Improve your security and learn your lesson, otherwise I'll be joining the tradehill exodus....
However, I have a BIG PROBLEM with MtGox contacting the CIA or FBI or whoever. It's bad enough that I have to worry about whoever getting my information from the leaked database. Now I have to worry about the Feds looking through my account and coming for my bitcoins? Hell no...
This isn't the first time that MtGx has considered running to the Feds:
http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z
If you think that the Feds are friends of BTC or that their involvement is going to help the BTC community in any way, then you're sorely mistaken.
MagicalTux, don't be a stupid snitch. Improve your security and learn your lesson, otherwise I'll be joining the tradehill exodus....
I think MagicalTux position is that the best place to be relative your enemy, is very close to him, so you can watch his movements, and cloud your intentions.
I think you do not understand that the Feds will get involved no matter what after the Senators vs. Silk Road issue.
Now is a matter of doing it in a sort of controlled manner. It is best to show up to Feds as friend, than to show up as a libertarian (thus anti-rep and anti-dem, the current government) enemy of sorts.
We do not want to become Waco
I agree 100% with that!!
I think it's awesome that MtGox contacted authorities, especially for PR reasons (to CIA or FBI I don't think it really matters). It's a very good way to improve bitcoin's image and I don't see how it could hurt.
And about the hacking... we gotta remember that the same thing also happened with paypal (which was even worse since many CC numbers were stolen).
These unfortunate events will only make bitcoin stronger!
I have questions with the Magical Tux story of what happened. I would like to know the truth of the hacking incident. If there was a financial auditor possessing the database for financial reasons what business did they have with having the password file. I see no reason for a financial auditor needing the password file. They only need the portions of the database that reference transactions and account numbers. Whenever I work with the government and I have been involved in many audits from an IT perspective I only give the auditors the information that is needed for the audit and no more records then are needed. Users names, email addresses and password hashes would be out of the question in an audit.
-Dukejer
-Dukejer
Well this extend I understand what went on. One time I asked for a db structure to implement a module for a hospital, instead of the structure they sent me a DVD with the whole db contents (means medical records of practically everybody in that town).
Is that "practical" export button and its default options...
I have questions with the Magical Tux story of what happened. I would like to know the truth of the hacking incident. If there was a financial auditor possessing the database for financial reasons what business did they have with having the password file. I see no reason for a financial auditor needing the password file. They only need the portions of the database that reference transactions and account numbers. Whenever I work with the government and I have been involved in many audits from an IT perspective I only give the auditors the information that is needed for the audit and no more records then are needed. Users names, email addresses and password hashes would be out of the question in an audit.
-Dukejer
-Dukejer
still i would suggest anyone to not only trade on one marketplace. use them all!
Tradehill has no worldwide withdrawal options at all, oh wait $45 bank wire option .... wtf?? most little miners don't have that much to withdraw in the first place.
so mtgox won't die - people from all around the world will keep using it as long as all other exchanges are not an option for anywhere but USA or some other single country.
and since people will keep using it, with time they will forget this incident and mtgox will rise again, since even haters will have to admit that the real volumes are there.
also the controversial notion that the trades should not have been reversed are probably all from the hacker/kevin alts so who cares about them.
so mtgox won't die - people from all around the world will keep using it as long as all other exchanges are not an option for anywhere but USA or some other single country.
and since people will keep using it, with time they will forget this incident and mtgox will rise again, since even haters will have to admit that the real volumes are there.
also the controversial notion that the trades should not have been reversed are probably all from the hacker/kevin alts so who cares about them.
I'm just saying...
The unlikely "benefit" of whoever getting caught isn't worth the definite minus of inviting the Feds behind the curtains.
I'm not mad at MtGox for getting hacked. They're a huge target and in some ways a hack was inevitable. They've handled the hack as well as possible with the shutdown, audit and rollback.
However, I have a BIG PROBLEM with MtGox contacting the CIA or FBI or whoever. It's bad enough that I have to worry about whoever getting my information from the leaked database. Now I have to worry about the Feds looking through my account and coming for my bitcoins? Hell no...
This isn't the first time that MtGx has considered running to the Feds:
http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z
If you think that the Feds are friends of BTC or that their involvement is going to help the BTC community in any way, then you're sorely mistaken.
MagicalTux, don't be a stupid snitch. Improve your security and learn your lesson, otherwise I'll be joining the tradehill exodus....
However, I have a BIG PROBLEM with MtGox contacting the CIA or FBI or whoever. It's bad enough that I have to worry about whoever getting my information from the leaked database. Now I have to worry about the Feds looking through my account and coming for my bitcoins? Hell no...
This isn't the first time that MtGx has considered running to the Feds:
http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z
If you think that the Feds are friends of BTC or that their involvement is going to help the BTC community in any way, then you're sorely mistaken.
MagicalTux, don't be a stupid snitch. Improve your security and learn your lesson, otherwise I'll be joining the tradehill exodus....
I think MagicalTux position is that the best place to be relative your enemy, is very close to him, so you can watch his movements, and cloud your intentions.
I think you do not understand that the Feds will get involved no matter what after the Senators vs. Silk Road issue.
Now is a matter of doing it in a sort of controlled manner. It is best to show up to Feds as friend, than to show up as a libertarian (thus anti-rep and anti-dem, the current government) enemy of sorts.
We do not want to become Waco
I'm not mad at MtGox for getting hacked. They're a huge target and in some ways a hack was inevitable. They've handled the hack as well as possible with the shutdown, audit and rollback.
However, I have a BIG PROBLEM with MtGox contacting the CIA or FBI or whoever. It's bad enough that I have to worry about whoever getting my information from the leaked database. Now I have to worry about the Feds looking through my account and coming for my bitcoins? Hell no...
This isn't the first time that MtGx has considered running to the Feds:
http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z
If you think that the Feds are friends of BTC or that their involvement is going to help the BTC community in any way, then you're sorely mistaken.
MagicalTux, don't be a stupid snitch. Improve your security and learn your lesson, otherwise I'll be joining the tradehill exodus....
However, I have a BIG PROBLEM with MtGox contacting the CIA or FBI or whoever. It's bad enough that I have to worry about whoever getting my information from the leaked database. Now I have to worry about the Feds looking through my account and coming for my bitcoins? Hell no...
This isn't the first time that MtGx has considered running to the Feds:
http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z
If you think that the Feds are friends of BTC or that their involvement is going to help the BTC community in any way, then you're sorely mistaken.
MagicalTux, don't be a stupid snitch. Improve your security and learn your lesson, otherwise I'll be joining the tradehill exodus....
I think MagicalTux position is that the best place to be relative your enemy, is very close to him, so you can watch his movements, and cloud your intentions.
I'm just saying...
The unlikely "benefit" of whoever getting busted isn't worth the definite minus of inviting the Feds behind the curtains.
Yes let's not forget the time he bring out the first exchanger
No he didn't, he bought it from the guy who did.Wrong, wrong, the first exchange was actually dwdollar's bitcoinmarket.
A bit off-topic, but the first was actually NewLibertyStandards exchange at newlibertystandard.wetpaint.org...
Again, there are many accounts that are abandoned, and probably have high amount of BTC, if ANY of those accounts get hacked, it is lots of crashing power.
I see. there are 6mBTC overall, and there are several 500kBTC accounts each containing 1/12th of all BTCs at mtgox?
the biggest miner known to this board has 370kBTC, and he is definitely not stupid enough to deposit it at an exchange, with any kind of password.
this is just a madeup BS story to cover up what really happened, which is probably a write-access SQL injection.
mtgox had several SQLinj vulnerabilities.
Quote
And many accounts of that era are abandoned and thus never got salted after MagicalTux bought MtGox and introduced salting. Thus if any of those accounts had absurd amounts of BTC (for our standards), something that is quite likely, they also happen to be the easiest accounts to break in using the leaked database.
MtGox claims it was ONE account.
Again, there are many accounts that are abandoned, and probably have high amount of BTC, if ANY of those accounts get hacked, it is lots of crashing power.
I'm not mad at MtGox for getting hacked. They're a huge target and in some ways a hack was inevitable. They've handled the hack as well as possible with the shutdown, audit and rollback.
However, I have a BIG PROBLEM with MtGox contacting the CIA or FBI or whoever. It's bad enough that I have to worry about whoever getting my information from the leaked database. Now I have to worry about the Feds looking through my account and coming for my bitcoins? Hell no...
This isn't the first time that MtGx has considered running to the Feds:
http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z
If you think that the Feds are friends of BTC or that their involvement is going to help the BTC community in any way, then you're sorely mistaken.
MagicalTux, don't be a stupid snitch. Improve your security and learn your lesson, otherwise I'll be joining the tradehill exodus....
However, I have a BIG PROBLEM with MtGox contacting the CIA or FBI or whoever. It's bad enough that I have to worry about whoever getting my information from the leaked database. Now I have to worry about the Feds looking through my account and coming for my bitcoins? Hell no...
This isn't the first time that MtGx has considered running to the Feds:
http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Bitcoin-exchanges-offer-anti-money-laundering-aid-2011-06-15T220113Z
If you think that the Feds are friends of BTC or that their involvement is going to help the BTC community in any way, then you're sorely mistaken.
MagicalTux, don't be a stupid snitch. Improve your security and learn your lesson, otherwise I'll be joining the tradehill exodus....
I think MagicalTux position is that the best place to be relative your enemy, is very close to him, so you can watch his movements, and cloud your intentions.
Quote
And many accounts of that era are abandoned and thus never got salted after MagicalTux bought MtGox and introduced salting. Thus if any of those accounts had absurd amounts of BTC (for our standards), something that is quite likely, they also happen to be the easiest accounts to break in using the leaked database.
MtGox claims it was ONE account.
500k is an absurd amount not only for our standards, but for early miners, too.
But look around in the forums, in very old posts, you will eventually see that in the age that MtGox was founded, people did handled some thousand of BTCs around.
I never said noone has 500kBTC. I said noone has 500 kBTC at mtgox, let alone with a weak password.
mtgox wasnt around at that time either, so it cant be an abondonded account from back then.
that someone got write access to MtGox' database as some claim and just created the 500k out of nothing is much more likely.
MtGox is from July 2010
And many accounts of that era are abandoned and thus never got salted after MagicalTux bought MtGox and introduced salting. Thus if any of those accounts had absurd amounts of BTC (for our standards), something that is quite likely, they also happen to be the easiest accounts to break in using the leaked database.
And never doubt people stupidity. I for example used the same password on mtgox and paypal, and it was a very crap password, and my paypal had access to several credit cards, this incident woke me up to reinforce those passwords, but if someone had broke in on my paypal that person probably would have some thousand USD of credit limit to destroy stuff around. (I have a high credit limit because I always pay credit cards in time, and I do that by never using them for more than the money I already have sitting on my bank account, thus this mean those cards also have lots of unused limit)
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