Tornado.Cash Sanctioned by the US - page 2.

Abiky

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Quote from: RussianEnglishTranslation on September 07, 2022, 08:05:19 AM

There are already some forks of Tornado Cash. Private bridges like 0xMonero's 0xTIP and blockbend are also options.

It seems so. They're fairly new to me, so I wouldn't pour large amounts of crypto on them just to be safe. I'm glad there are alternatives out there in order to help protect people's privacy. Just because crypto mixers exist, that doesn't mean they're solely used for malicious purposes. People have many legitimate reasons to use a mixer, especially when they don't want third parties spying on their transactions. Businesses need privacy to help protect their utmost sensitive information, so I don't get why the government is completely against crypto mixers.

I get the government wants to stop money laundering and tax evasion, but taking down the mixer completely by sanctioning it is not the ideal path to take. Instead of sanctioning mixers, why doesn't the US government sanction the individuals using the mixers for illegal activities? I'm pretty sure this will be challenged at the court soon (if it hasn't already), so only time will tell us what lies ahead for crypto/Blockchain tech's prominence in the mainstream world. Just my opinion

zasad@

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https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/08/coinbase-bankrolls-suit-against-treasury-department-following-tornado-cash-sanctions.html

"Coinbase is backing a lawsuit filed against the Treasury Department Thursday by six users of a recently sanctioned crypto service.
Treasury said the service helped launder billions from state-sponsored bad actors. But crypto enthusiasts argue that sanctioning crypto code is an overstep and could cause negative ripple effects in the tech industry.
“It sets a dangerous precedent,” Coinbase’s chief legal officer, Paul Grewal, tells CNBC."

RussianEnglishTranslation

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Quote from: Abiky on September 06, 2022, 08:05:10 PM

Quote from: coin-investor on September 04, 2022, 10:12:41 PM

The article stated

Quote

The U.S. Department of Treasury on Monday sanctioned the popular cryptocurrency mixer Tornado Cash, banning Americans from using a service that the government said,

is for the American citizens but for other countries they can still use or the people in America can find a way to use, the Cryptocurrency industry still needs mixing protocols/services the way things are being centralized in the Crypto industry, mixers support and adhere to decentralization which is the core teaching of Cryptocurrency

Yes. American citizens will be mostly affected by the sanctions. But other countries could restrict their people from using the Tornado.Cash service, especially if they have close ties to the US. I think people in Russia, Venezuela, China, and other foreign countries won't have a problem using the aforementioned mixer protocol. Besides, it's still possible to use Tornado.Cash directly through ETH smart contracts no matter where you are in the world. That's thanks to the decentralized and open source nature of Tornado.Cash. The code is widely available for anyone to copy, modify and/or redistribute, so I wouldn't be surprised if a Tornado.Cash clone is born on a completely different blockchain to challenge sanctions imposed by the US government. Just my thoughts Grin

There are already some forks of Tornado Cash. Private bridges like 0xMonero's 0xTIP and blockbend are also options.

Abiky

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Quote from: coin-investor on September 04, 2022, 10:12:41 PM

The article stated

Quote

The U.S. Department of Treasury on Monday sanctioned the popular cryptocurrency mixer Tornado Cash, banning Americans from using a service that the government said,

is for the American citizens but for other countries they can still use or the people in America can find a way to use, the Cryptocurrency industry still needs mixing protocols/services the way things are being centralized in the Crypto industry, mixers support and adhere to decentralization which is the core teaching of Cryptocurrency

Yes. American citizens will be mostly affected by the sanctions. But other countries could restrict their people from using the Tornado.Cash service, especially if they have close ties to the US. I think people in Russia, Venezuela, China, and other foreign countries won't have a problem using the aforementioned mixer protocol. Besides, it's still possible to use Tornado.Cash directly through ETH smart contracts no matter where you are in the world. That's thanks to the decentralized and open source nature of Tornado.Cash. The code is widely available for anyone to copy, modify and/or redistribute, so I wouldn't be surprised if a Tornado.Cash clone is born on a completely different blockchain to challenge sanctions imposed by the US government. Just my thoughts Grin

coin-investor

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Quote from: Abiky on August 09, 2022, 08:56:12 AM

Am I missing something here? Does this mean all mixing protocols/services are doomed? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

The article stated

Quote

The U.S. Department of Treasury on Monday sanctioned the popular cryptocurrency mixer Tornado Cash, banning Americans from using a service that the government said,

is for the American citizens but for other countries they can still use or the people in America can find a way to use, the Cryptocurrency industry still needs mixing protocols/services the way things are being centralized in the Crypto industry, mixers support and adhere to decentralization which is the core teaching of Cryptocurrency

kojektea

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if it is used only for money laundering of course it is better destroyed. I'm also clueless about these mixing services, they work in terms of appa which makes them widely used? some say this service is used for those who want to transact in secret, that means it is made in privacy, but how can this only be used for illegal things?

Abiky

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Quote from: zasad@ on September 03, 2022, 04:53:33 AM

https://twitter.com/PouriaAzimzade1/status/1558527845177204740
"This is no joke !
Celsius CEO free and rich
Voyger CEO free and rich
Sifu free and rich
Do Kwon free and rich

Tarnado cash dev is in prison !
Lesson : you’re allowed to scam people and steal their money but don’t ever think about giving them privacy.. " Cry

Exactly. It's like privacy is a crime, when it shouldn't be that way. There are law-abiding citizens who need privacy in order to protect their transactions from prying eyes. Especially, businesses who have utmost sensitive information. This situation needs to be taken to the court, for the good of our privacy and the crypto/Blockchain industry. That's assuming the defendant wins the case. If he/she/they lose, then it'll be bye-bye to privacy for good.

The US government started with the Blender.io mixer and now it went against Tornado.Cash. But that won't stop it from taking action against other centralized and non-custodial mixers. These are bad times we're living into, so expect the unexpected. Just my opinion

zasad@

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https://twitter.com/PouriaAzimzade1/status/1558527845177204740
"This is no joke !
Celsius CEO free and rich
Voyger CEO free and rich
Sifu free and rich
Do Kwon free and rich

Tarnado cash dev is in prison !
Lesson : you’re allowed to scam people and steal their money but don’t ever think about giving them privacy.. " Cry

Abiky

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Quote from: mindrust on August 28, 2022, 06:46:15 AM

Haven't they caught one of the tornado.cash devs? It is as simple as that. They may not catch everybody who uses the platform but they can close down the project's repo (which they already did I believe), throw all the devs to jail and it is over just like that. The project will eventually die off because there won't be anybody developing and promoting it. Nobody will ever know its existence.

If any blockchain related project is still available to us, it is because the US government allows it.

They did close the GitHub repo, but someone else still managed to duplicate the source code. This shows us that governments efforts are futile when trying to destroy something as open source and decentralized as Tornado.Cash. It would've been best to target individuals directly than the mixer protocol itself. If we let the government get away with this, then it'll be the end of the whole crypto/Blockchain industry as we speak. What makes you think the US government won't take a similar action to Bitcoin or Ethereum if it deems them a threat to the very existence of the US Dollar?

I think the US overreaching its authority will result in legal action by crypto proponents. Taking this to the court would be the only way to defend the future of open source and crypto/Blockchain tech. Otherwise, you can say goodbye to privacy coins, mixers, and possibly even traditional cryptocurrencies like BTC and ETH. Who knows what the future holds for the entire industry? Just my opinion

RussiaUkraineTranslation

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Quote from: SistaFista on August 29, 2022, 02:37:07 AM

Well, decentralized mixing protocols are often used by bad people to do money laundering, but that is not the purpose of it.
The purpose of mixing tool is to ensure our privacy is safe. It is not the mixing tool is bad, but the people who use it with bad purpose are.
Monero is a good privacy coin, we can keep our identity private without external mixing tool.

Monero is fine but it doesn't have smart contract functionality and cannot work with Ethereum, BNB chain, Polygon etc. That's why using 0xMonero is necessary. It can mix and bridge privately from Ethereum to BNB chian.

SistaFista

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Well, decentralized mixing protocols are often used by bad people to do money laundering, but that is not the purpose of it.
The purpose of mixing tool is to ensure our privacy is safe. It is not the mixing tool is bad, but the people who use it with bad purpose are.
Monero is a good privacy coin, we can keep our identity private without external mixing tool.

mindrust

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Quote from: Abiky on August 09, 2022, 08:56:12 AM

According to CNBC, the US' Treasury Department sanctioned on-chain mixing service Tornado.cash because of "money laundering" activities. Here's the link to the article: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/08/crypto-mixing-service-tornado-cash-blacklisted-by-treasury-department-.html

I fail to see how successful the US government would be at sanctioning a decentralized mixing protocol, since there's no single entity behind it. You can't hold someone accountable for patronizing money laundering activities if everything's decentralized by design. Even if the website goes down, users can still access the smart contract directly without limitations.

Am I missing something here? Does this mean all mixing protocols/services are doomed? Your input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Haven't they caught one of the tornado.cash devs? It is as simple as that. They may not catch everybody who uses the platform but they can close down the project's repo (which they already did I believe), throw all the devs to jail and it is over just like that. The project will eventually die off because there won't be anybody developing and promoting it. Nobody will ever know its existence.

If any blockchain related project is still available to us, it is because the US government allows it.

Abiky

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Quote from: zasad@ on August 26, 2022, 08:38:05 AM

https://fortune.com/2022/08/25/tornado-cash-developer-russian-fsb-linked-company/
Developer at Treasury-sanctioned Tornado Cash worked for company linked to Russian security agency
"Alexey Pertsev, developer of cryptocurrency mixer Tornado Cash, was formerly employed by a company linked to Russian security agency FSB, according to a report from intelligence firm Kharon."

If that's the case, then the developer must pay a heavy price. But not everyone who contributed towards the Tornado.Cash project are in the same boat. The US sanctions will now raise a red flag to anyone who used the mixer protocol even if the intentions weren't malicious at all. I guess we'll be seeing the authorities knocking down on Vitalik Buterin's door soon just because he used the mixer to donate money to Ukraine. This is all messed up, so unless the situation is challenged at the court, things will only get worse for crypto/Blockchain tech. It's a dangerous precedent that will mark the industry forever. If crypto advocates fail on defending this emerging industry, then everything we've fought for will vanish in an instant. I hope there's light at the end of the tunnel so crypto can fulfill its mission of bringing banking to the unbanked. Just my thoughts Grin

zasad@

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https://fortune.com/2022/08/25/tornado-cash-developer-russian-fsb-linked-company/
Developer at Treasury-sanctioned Tornado Cash worked for company linked to Russian security agency
"Alexey Pertsev, developer of cryptocurrency mixer Tornado Cash, was formerly employed by a company linked to Russian security agency FSB, according to a report from intelligence firm Kharon."

Abiky

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Quote from: zasad@ on August 24, 2022, 02:29:48 PM

Is that allowed? Cry

https://cryptoslate.com/professor-re-uploads-tornado-cash-code-to-github-for-research-purposes/
"Professor re-uploads Tornado Cash code to GitHub for research purposes
A professor of Computer Science at Johns Hopkins University re-uploaded Tornado Cash and Tornado Nova source codes to GitHub, saying he has been using the code for teaching purposes."

It's for educational purposes, so I don't see why the code can be re-uploaded in the first place. But that's up to the government to decide. I really am against censoring code, especially when the same represents freedom of speech. How you will use that code (either for legitimate or illegitimate purposes) depends entirely on you. Again, I believe the US should've sanctioned the individuals using Tornado.Cash for illicit purposes than the mixer protocol itself. Everything's messed up now, so I don't think developers will dare to make another privacy solution on ETH (or any other chain) ever again.

I hope crypto advocates and industry leaders stand up against the decision to censor the use of Tornado.Cash for the good of crypto/Blockchain tech. Coin Center mentioned it will be taking this to the court, so I think there may be light at the end of the tunnel after all. Just my thoughts Grin

Tomohisa

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Quote from: zasad@ on August 24, 2022, 02:29:48 PM

Is that allowed? Cry

https://cryptoslate.com/professor-re-uploads-tornado-cash-code-to-github-for-research-purposes/
"Professor re-uploads Tornado Cash code to GitHub for research purposes
A professor of Computer Science at Johns Hopkins University re-uploaded Tornado Cash and Tornado Nova source codes to GitHub, saying he has been using the code for teaching purposes."

I think under the for teaching and research disclaim might let our dear professor scoot free from the sanction by the U.S. Government. Unless the government can proof it causes harm by simply observing the code which is just a bunch of combinations of 1 and 0.

zasad@

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Is that allowed? Cry

https://cryptoslate.com/professor-re-uploads-tornado-cash-code-to-github-for-research-purposes/
"Professor re-uploads Tornado Cash code to GitHub for research purposes
A professor of Computer Science at Johns Hopkins University re-uploaded Tornado Cash and Tornado Nova source codes to GitHub, saying he has been using the code for teaching purposes."

RussiaUkraineTranslation

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Quote from: TravelMug on August 19, 2022, 09:39:44 PM

Quote from: tvplus006 on August 19, 2022, 04:19:12 PM

Quote from: Abiky on August 18, 2022, 07:45:34 PM

Developers wouldn't risk themselves copying/forking the code, because they know that would raise the alarm of the government. No one wants to face jail time for fines, so this is only the beginning of the end for privacy. ..

Regardless of the desire of the government, there is a demand for such mixers, respectively, there will be a supply. So soon there will be a new "Tornado.Cash", which will really not only be decentralized, but also have an anonymous development team, which will not allow the government to control it.

It's possible, that's how bitcoin mixers are born, because there is a demand for it. But only the tough one are able to survived as of this time.

And for those who are thinking to be the next "Tornado Cash", they will just have to out think the government and to not get track somewhere in the world, caught off guard and now facing a jail time. Monero was smart to do that as developers made a fork recently that will make it harder to trace for privacy reason.

I think 0xMonero is a good alternative to Monero because 0xMR has smart contract functionality.

Abiky

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Quote from: asriloni on August 19, 2022, 11:38:50 PM

Tornado was a scam tool as well. I hope that binance will be delisting this token from its exchange site. This token being used by so many criminals. Binance was also doing shady thing by accepting the scam token that used by criminals. So many people's money being stolen got laundered through torando. That means binance shall delist such token from its exchange site.

The Tornado mixing protocol wasn't a scam. It was just sanctioned by the US because of money laundering concerns. Smart contracts can still be accessed through the main Ethereum blockchain, but be aware that your ETH address could get flagged if governments manage to link your identity with it. The source code is open for anyone to review or modify to their hearts' content, so it's possible to "revive" the front-end (website) to interact with Tornado.Cash contracts directly. But even so, developers wouldn't risk themselves mirroring the website because they could face prosecution from the government.

This is sad because now people can't enjoy privacy on the ETH chain. Innocent people will now be treated just like a criminal who used the mixing protocol before. It would've been best for the US to sanction the persons using the Tornado.Cash mixer directly than the protocol itself. Someone said about Coin Center taking this to the court, so only time will tell us if we'll ever see Tornado.Cash or a similar privacy solution on the ETH chain again. Just my thoughts Grin

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Quote from: asriloni on August 19, 2022, 11:38:50 PM

Tornado was a scam tool as well. I hope that binance will be delisting this token from its exchange site. This token being used by so many criminals. Binance was also doing shady thing by accepting the scam token that used by criminals. So many people's money being stolen got laundered through torando. That means binance shall delist such token from its exchange site.

I don't understand why you think the Torn coin is scam? The fact that the Tornado.Cash mixer was used by scammers to launder their money is not a reason to call the coin scam. We all know that the dollar is also used by scammers and other criminal structures, but no one calls USD scam.

Topic: Tornado.Cash Sanctioned by the US - page 2. (Read 708 times)