tracibility of bitcoins | Bitcointalksearch.org

Amph

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Quote from: odolvlobo on March 02, 2016, 01:08:31 PM

If your goal is to break any links to the person that pays you, then a mixer will do that (but, can you trust the mixer?).

However, in the U.S., you will still have a problem. If you are regularly converting large amounts of bitcoins, the exchange (or whoever does the conversion) will require you to disclose the source of your bitcoins. If you don't, they will ban you.

what about you are the owner of the minxer? it's not like it is not possible

also if this is done after converting large amount from fiat, then any mixer will be pointless

odolvlobo

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If your goal is to break any links to the person that pays you, then a mixer will do that (but, can you trust the mixer?).

However, in the U.S., you will still have a problem. If you are regularly converting large amounts of bitcoins, the exchange (or whoever does the conversion) will require you to disclose the source of your bitcoins. If you don't, they will ban you.

EdenHazard

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Quote from: gvuandrew on March 01, 2016, 12:50:56 PM

Hi, I've never used bitcoins, but reading a lot on the subject.

I'm not using for laundering or criminal activity, actually I'm an online affiliate and where my 'criminal' part comes in is just a bit black hat seo, that could cause some issues with people, not jail time or anything, but still I want to remain anonymous to be extra safe.

Here is what I was thinking of doing, but I need some advice here fellows

The payments I earn from companies will go to 3rd party and that person will pay me in bitcoins. This person will not know me, I'll be anonymous to him.
But from what I'm reading, I MUST link my bank account to the bitcoin account. I'm not dealing with small amounts. I'm dealing in the 10,000's per month so it's not going to work with finding small sellers dealing in cash.

Now let's say the US Gov comes down on me and is on my track. If they demand from the bitcoin company with a warrant then they will simply give my bank account. So what can I do if anything? What do these professional hackers do that tell people 'pay up 100k or else you are finished', they obviously have some system in place.

Thanks

you have right option,if you choose bitcoin for anonymous payment. you just have to do some step,making bitcoin wallet without adding your banks account and personal ID,and than do transaction without notes.

Herbert2020

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for most of us anonymity that comes with a mixer is enough, you send the coins to the mixer and receive it back after a time period that you set in a couple of transactions with different fees.

but i think you still can add an extra layer of anonymity to cover the tracks and that is using an altcoin in the middle, you can use a service like shapeshift to exchange bitcoin to another altcoin and then convert it back to bitcoin in another place.

but all of these will have accumulative fees that you must pay so if you don't need anonymity that much just stick with simple routines of changing address and maybe use a mixer once.

dollarneed

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Quote from: gvuandrew on March 02, 2016, 02:16:37 AM

what about https://xmr.to/ that previous guy mentioned?

also why specifically do you feel the strategy i just mentioned is traceable? what about it specifically do you feel causes the problem?

after reading this thread, i just realized that monero is cool to mixing our coin to, as we know that monero is one of a private and untraceable coin i think it's pretty cool,
about the strategy that you just mentioned i think bitmixer has it, this is one of the best and longest mixing service here, why not to try this service?

gvuandrew

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what about https://xmr.to/ that previous guy mentioned?

also why specifically do you feel the strategy i just mentioned is traceable? what about it specifically do you feel causes the problem?

owm123

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Quote from: gvuandrew on March 02, 2016, 01:50:39 AM

i did some research and came up with what I 'think' could work, i didn't see anyone else mention this exactly, but logically to me it makes since.

here is goes

i get paid in bitcoins, but remember, can't use bank account with it as it's traceable
so money goes into wallet 1
wallet 1 sends to mixer1
mixer1 sends to wallet 2
wallet 2 sends to mixer2
mixer2 sends to wallet3
wallet3 sends to mixer3
mixer3 sends to wallet4, and from wallet4 I connect my bank account to it

so we have 3 mixers here, all 3 would have to cooperate with the Goverment, i don't think that's too likely

Also I would look for mixer companies in countries like N Korea, China, Russia, Iran...

Let me know what you guys think of this and please do add/modify your own suggestions

And I also would like to know if mixer companies are bound by same regulations of disclosing customers as the bitcoin ones are

If you really worry about tractability of Bitcoin, maybe you could use something that was actually designed to be anonymous, and avoid all this, what seems to be, a complicated plan on using bitcoin in a anonymous way. Bitcoin was not designed to be anonymous (http://www.bitcoinisnotanonymous.com/). It is pseudo-anonymous. All these additional steps you are trying to do, are only increasing your chance to "f**k it up" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1q4Ir2J8P8).

gvuandrew

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i did some research and came up with what I 'think' could work, i didn't see anyone else mention this exactly, but logically to me it makes since.

here is goes

i get paid in bitcoins, but remember, can't use bank account with it as it's traceable
so money goes into wallet 1
wallet 1 sends to mixer1
mixer1 sends to wallet 2
wallet 2 sends to mixer2
mixer2 sends to wallet3
wallet3 sends to mixer3
mixer3 sends to wallet4, and from wallet4 I connect my bank account to it

so we have 3 mixers here, all 3 would have to cooperate with the Goverment, i don't think that's too likely

Also I would look for mixer companies in countries like N Korea, China, Russia, Iran...

Let me know what you guys think of this and please do add/modify your own suggestions

And I also would like to know if mixer companies are bound by same regulations of disclosing customers as the bitcoin ones are

c789

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There are companies which specialize in tracing BTC transactions. Since all BTC transactions are public, and since mixing services only make it more difficult to trace the transaction, it's becoming more difficult to remain anonymous.

Monero is untraceable, private, decentralized, and secure. You can get it on the exchanges. You can even use the xmr.to site to send someone BTC and still remain completely anonymous. You send your Monero and the recipient's BTC address to xmr.to and xmr.to converts the Monero into BTC and sends the BTC to the recipient.

romero121

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Quote from: Kakmakr on March 02, 2016, 12:39:13 AM

Quote from: Patatas on March 01, 2016, 06:58:23 PM

1.Black Hat Seo is not a crime

Yes, It is not a crime but it is highly Unethical and frowned on in the SEO community at large. You are increasing a page's rank in search engines through means that violate the search engines terms of service. So you are effectively cheating the system to favor certain sites or give them a unfair advantage.

I see this as being the same as a player using steroids to boost his performance in sport. It is just a matter of time before they get caught and banned.

As you said its not a crime, because various companies are also using related techniques to make their firm in the top list. If this can be considered as a crime then Seo function is also a crime.

Kakmakr

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Quote from: Patatas on March 01, 2016, 06:58:23 PM

1.Black Hat Seo is not a crime

Yes, It is not a crime but it is highly Unethical and frowned on in the SEO community at large. You are increasing a page's rank in search engines through means that violate the search engines terms of service. So you are effectively cheating the system to favor certain sites or give them a unfair advantage.

I see this as being the same as a player using steroids to boost his performance in sport. It is just a matter of time before they get caught and banned.

achow101

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Quote from: gvuandrew on March 01, 2016, 10:06:59 PM

If I need to just pay someone small amount, like less than $100 in bitcoins to their account, and we are in 2 separate countries and won't meet in person, is it possible to send them money like this without me having to connect my bank account? In other words, what would be the best approach for sending someone $100 in bitcoins to become 100% untraceable? I can use TOR for logging in purposes to a site obviously to cover that side of the equation.

Face to face in cash transactions will provide you the most anonymity. Furthermore, you can just use bitcoin mixing services so that people can't trace where the Bitcoin that you bought is going.

Quote from: gvuandrew on March 01, 2016, 10:13:27 PM

but i'm not sure it applies to me, because I'm going to have a buyer already. I know who I need to pay the $100 to, I just don't want to be on the records for paying this person, so if anyone can confirm that it will be super easy for us to go to https://localbitcoins.com/ and just do the exchange without having to show ID that would be great.

When you are buying Bitcoin, it all really depends on the seller. Most sellers will want to see an id so that they know that the person they are trading with is who they are actually supposed to trade with. However there should not be any record of that since those trades are for meeting face-to-face. So the seller will know who you are, but no one else will (except maybe your name which might be in chat logs so that the seller knows what name to check for).

Alternatively, instead of buying Bitcoin, you can just get paid in Bitcoin and that way no one will need to know your identity to pay you.

gvuandrew

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i read here https://localbitcoins.com/faq that it mentions one doesn't have to show ID, but they said it's much harder to exchange with traders

but i'm not sure it applies to me, because I'm going to have a buyer already. I know who I need to pay the $100 to, I just don't want to be on the records for paying this person, so if anyone can confirm that it will be super easy for us to go to https://localbitcoins.com/ and just do the exchange without having to show ID that would be great.

gvuandrew

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thank you very much for your replies, so seems not doable for me.

Let me clarify something very related to my above question.

If I need to just pay someone small amount, like less than $100 in bitcoins to their account, and we are in 2 separate countries and won't meet in person, is it possible to send them money like this without me having to connect my bank account? In other words, what would be the best approach for sending someone $100 in bitcoins to become 100% untraceable? I can use TOR for logging in purposes to a site obviously to cover that side of the equation.

BTCBinary

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when it comes to change Bitcoin for Fiat you always end up losing your anonymity. Unless you sell bitcoin directly to a person who pays you directly with cash it will be traceable. Of course that in your case selling to a person in cash is not feasable but it is the only way I can think of.
Bitcoin ATMs probably would do the trick but they need to be bidirectional and they only buy small ammounts in cash to the same person, anyway they all have Camaras around that can easily identify you.

SFR10

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The moment someone send you that amount (on most countries), a red flag will be raised automatically for you and the sender so either way, you'll end up being a target specially that you have to link your bank account using a third party. And also they will demand your identity from bank itself (not BTCitcoin company), since it would be easier to spot out. You'r better off with doing the whole SEO thing in a complete legit/honest way if you want to save yourself a lot of trouble.

QuestionAuthority

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Quote from: odolvlobo on March 01, 2016, 07:55:48 PM

Quote from: gvuandrew on March 01, 2016, 12:50:56 PM

Here is what I was thinking of doing, but I need some advice here fellows

The payments I earn from companies will go to 3rd party and that person will pay me in bitcoins. This person will not know me, I'll be anonymous to him.
But from what I'm reading, I MUST link my bank account to the bitcoin account. I'm not dealing with small amounts. I'm dealing in the 10,000's per month so it's not going to work with finding small sellers dealing in cash.

Laws vary depending on where you are, but a person or company paying you $10,000's per month in bitcoin anonymously would be breaking the law in the U.S. For large enough amounts of money the person or company is required to obtain identification so that you are not anonymous. You aren't generally required to link a bank account. That is mostly a convenience.

That's true. The USA controls it's subjects by controlling their money. It may not be as bad in other countries.

odolvlobo

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Quote from: gvuandrew on March 01, 2016, 12:50:56 PM

Here is what I was thinking of doing, but I need some advice here fellows

The payments I earn from companies will go to 3rd party and that person will pay me in bitcoins. This person will not know me, I'll be anonymous to him.
But from what I'm reading, I MUST link my bank account to the bitcoin account. I'm not dealing with small amounts. I'm dealing in the 10,000's per month so it's not going to work with finding small sellers dealing in cash.

Laws vary depending on where you are, but a person or company paying you $10,000's per month in bitcoin anonymously would be breaking the law in the U.S. For large enough amounts of money the person or company is required to obtain identification so that you are not anonymous. You aren't generally required to link a bank account. That is mostly a convenience.

nickenburg

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What you could do is, try to find 1 trustable person, maybe on www.localbitcoins.com
Find a person in your area and get in contact with him, and say you want to make a monthly deal.
You give him the bitcoins he gives you 10k cash, of course he needs to have some money and be trustworthy.
But it is safer then trying to go put everything on your bank account, maybe u could try a swiss one Cheesy

Patatas

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1.Black Hat Seo is not a crime .I believe you must doing CPA,PPD,lead generation sort of stuff right ?
2.If you don't want bitcoins to be converted in fiat cash by linking your bank account,why not simply use other online wallets (such as paypal) and simply spend the money ex shopping through paypal,if that's an option.
3.You do find dealers who can buy bitcoins in bulk with the mentioned amount but your banks will ask proof for the deposits .
4.Pay Taxes.Register yourself as a freelancer or whatever is in the US law.

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