Topic: TradeHill - Person to Person BTC Transfers Now Live! (Read 3819 times)

Jered, how is the user withdraw to another user API call coming along?  Any luck with it coming out in the next couple of days?

I believe it was more of a friendly poke at the crowd. At least that's how I interpreted it.
I'm sure he understands the difference. I took the opportunity to express a personal opinion on the movement.
I'm really happy with how Bitcoin has progressed. This community never ceases to surprise me with what it's capable of.

Jered

Shinobi, is it that difficult to comprehend the difference between coercive centralization (such as with the Federal Reserve) and market-based centralization (such as with a private firm gaining market share)? Are these two things really so indecipherable as to cause you confusion over why those who condemn the former might appreciate and encourage the latter?

I prefer Linux personally but I prefer people using "Apple Bitcoin" to Bitcoin not being used.
Glad we agree on that one haha.

Jered

EEEEWWWWW!!!!!!

...but I get your point.  8^)

Shinobi,

I agree with everything you said. It does reduce decentralization, no doubt about that. We also agree that it is coming if we like it or not. Bitcoin needs to be less Linux and more Apple to continue to grow.
I said "if we don't do this we will lose users" that's not the same as saying money guides my decisions.  Do we want to make money.. yes, I wouldn't expect you to believe me if I say "no" to that one.
I believe we can make a lot of money while completely changing the financial system to benefit everyone more. Banks, credit cards and other organizations make a fortune charging way too much in fees.
I can write 5 pages about what I don't like about banks and why they're not fun to deal with. I'm sure I won't get too many arguments here on these forums. Simply put, if TradeHill doesn't grow it's user base by giving them what they want while maintaining our core values it won't expand. If it doesn't expand we can't move towards our dream of a far superior global financial system. My worst fear is a company motivated purely by profit that doesn't share our vision takes the lead and consolidates Bitcoin.

You have some really good points and I've enjoyed your posts.
If Bitcoin dies today, the eyes and minds that it has opened should be seen as a huge success but I believe this is just the beginning.

Jered Kenna

Jered,

I personally have no issue with this sort of thing and have long argued that convenience and simplicity were key to mass adoption of Bitcoin. I only mentioned the below because I wanted to rub the faces of the libertarian crowd in the fact any success Bitcoin enjoys will have come about by these sorts of transaction opportunities and not some any adherence to some crypto-rebel ideology.

It is interesting to see you say that you were drawn in by the decentralization of Bitcoin but then go on to say, in effect, that making money is what ultimately guides your decsion. Truth be told, the person-to-person service you provide *does* reduce decentralization, even if there are a gajillion transactions occurring - such a service requires trust that Tradehill won't some day be forced to hand over transaction logs - and, if you are really serious about legal compliance as you say you are, you will most definitely be keeping such logs.

You are right, though. Noone is forced to use it... yet. The danger is that, as these services grow in popularity, the development of the Bitcoin client as a stand-alone service may well fall to the wayside. In the same way that walking around with a suitcase of cash to buy a car will almost invariably result in raised eyebrows, if not a visit from the cops, there may one day be the same behavior should someone choose to send money outside of a the established Bitcoin pathways.

Very big can of worms 

We actually spend a lot of time and money on fraud prevention. We have prevented hacked Dwolla accounts from being used and cooperated with Dwolla on getting the money returned.
We've had one compromised TradeHill account (he used the same login / password at Mt Gox and didn't change it) and implemented 2 factor authentication to prevent that in the future.
With that said we're evaluating the way we provide internal transfers and may make changes. At this point treat an internal transfer the same as an external transfer of BTC. Send it to people that you trust.

I like the idea of feedback. It can obviously be gamed but we can look in to it.

Jered

Ideally we'll have plenty of exchanges which will keep it decentralized.
It's an option but not at all required. You can maintain your anonymity by sending BTC in a regular manner.


Thanks for the advice, MSB something we're very concerned with and acting on.


The decentralized nature of BTC is one of the biggest points that drew me in personally. I don't believe that this will change that much.
It would be better to have individual groups of BTC IE Mybitcoin.com TradeHill / Mt Gox than one central location and it will hopefully stay that way.
We've received a lot of requests for this feature and if we don't offer it someone else will and we will lose users.

Jered

It's still available... but the convenience of instant transfers isn't.

Maybe you can setup a complaint department that can deal with fraud?


For instance, if there is proof of illegal, fraudulent, or shady bitcoin practices, you can

A. reverse the transaction
B. Put a hold on the questionable amount/account for x days until item arrives


I know it takes time and resources, so of course charge a fee for "insurance". Else free will be "at-your-own-risk".

Perhaps allow people to leave positive and negative feedback on these accounts.



...opening a big can of worms here.

Be careful.  I have been advised that facilitating intra-exchange transfers could be construed as a money transmitting business. 

One of the major benefits of Bitcoin is the ability to send P2P.  Why do you feel a need to centralize that?

Where's the decentralization, anonymity crowd? They must be upset!

Exactly. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

Jered

Very cool! Thank you!

So if two people have an account at tradehill, someone can pay me using bitcoins instead of waiting 3 hours for the regular person to person btc transfer?

Yes but if you want to send to someone else on TradeHill it's instant (1 min max).  No waiting for confirmations.
More importantly you can use their email instead of remembering the hash. Also you don't have to pull the funds out then send them (1 instead of 2 transfers).
Sending BTC with client is normally almost free but internal TradeHill transfers are 100% free.

Any other questions feel free to post or email [email protected]

Jered

PMI, but can't we already do this w/o Tradehill?

+1 We want bitcoin to be around long term and compliant exchanges are critical. Thanks Jered!

We're taking a "better safe than sorry" approach. We've submitted the needed paperwork but want to be 100% sure we're in compliance with the law before we proceed.
TradeHill and Mt Gox are the two biggest targets for opponents to Bitcoin and we both owe it to the community to be on our toes. I've been personally involved with Bitcoin for a while
and want it to succeed for a variety of reasons. If greed motivates me to cut corners and risk damaging the community then I'm no longer the same person that started this company.

Jered