Tradehill SEPA account frozen! - page 2.

Xephan

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: JackH on July 29, 2011, 06:28:48 AM

Expect this to keep on happening dear Bitcoiners. Just face that Bitcoin is not a cherished currency by the established banking world and no bank would publicly admit that they are tied to the Bitcoin economy.

Until someone from the established financial sector steps in and takes the FULL step of representing Bitcoin - putting their bank license on the brink of cancellation and is ready to go through lengthy courts and is ready to publicly face the scrutiny of allowing "money-laundry" through their bank because of Bitcoin and whatever else the media is going to label them, forget Bitcoin ever reaching mainstream.

A strong system requires a strong individual, and none the less powerful to step in and take the first battle. Only the outcome of that battle will take Bitcoin to its next stage. Right now we are in limbo, and the freezing of assets is going to be more apparent as time passes.

There's another way, much harder but more resilient than relying on a single individual.
A decent Bitcoin economy where an average person can get most of their essentials without ever having to convert to fiat currency. Once the economy is established, it doesn't matter anymore what the banks can do.

Yuusha

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: TonyHoyle on July 29, 2011, 12:01:18 PM

Is this genuine? I started a SEPA transfer yesterday and I'd hate to lose that money.. haven't received any communication from tradehill related to problems.

I didn't receive any communication from Mt. Gox either when the same thing happened with them. Your funds should arrive, though, but they will be late.

TonyHoyle

newbie

Activity: 59

Merit: 0

Is this genuine? I started a SEPA transfer yesterday and I'd hate to lose that money.. haven't received any communication from tradehill related to problems.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=32813.0

there are solutions popping up every which way you turn regarding btc.

it takes REAL investors to see thru the fog of FUD.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: JackH on July 29, 2011, 10:35:54 AM

Well MtGox probably lies to their bank as well. I cant see how the bank would know and accept that this happened.

Secondly, neither Tradehill nor MtGox are approved by any financial regulatory unit to conduct financial business - that is holding money on behalf of third party.

I dont think anything will change, except if the established banking industry REALLY goes to hell and people start rethinking the model of the banking world. Right now its the same as usual.

thats unlikely. remember mtgox reported their hack to the authorities who initiated an investigation which includes its bank i'm sure. they're even complying by holding all our personal info onsite as well, not to mention the $1000 withdrawal limit.

no one expected a 154 yo company like Lehman to go down either, not to mention Bear, Merrill whose total lifespans amount to how many hundreds of years?

btw, today is VERY interesting in that the USD is down and BTC is UP. if this trend continues everything you say will unravel in a flash.

becoin

legendary

Activity: 3431

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Quote from: cypherdoc on July 29, 2011, 10:33:26 AM

why then is mtgox's bank still open for wires?

Which bank? This one?!... http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/7525097623/mtgox-eur-banking-change

JackH

sr. member

Activity: 381

Merit: 255

Well MtGox probably lies to their bank as well. I cant see how the bank would know and accept that this happened.

Secondly, neither Tradehill nor MtGox are approved by any financial regulatory unit to conduct financial business - that is holding money on behalf of third party.

I dont think anything will change, except if the established banking industry REALLY goes to hell and people start rethinking the model of the banking world. Right now its the same as usual.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: becoin on July 29, 2011, 10:31:53 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on July 29, 2011, 10:08:41 AM

i'm not sure that you've been following the bitcoin news lately but there have been SO MANY positive developments just in the past few weeks that its astounding

Bitcoin exchanges are much more important to the bitcoin economy compared to everything you've listed! Unfortunately, there is growing evidence that banks block every bank account that bitcoin exchanges use to do their business. That is a fact nobody can deny. I'm quite confident that even Dwolla's recent troubles with all those chargebacks and credit reversal coming from third party banks are due to serving bitcoin exchanges!

why then is mtgox's bank still open for wires?

and your speculation about Dwolla is trolling.

becoin

legendary

Activity: 3431

Merit: 1233

Quote from: cypherdoc on July 29, 2011, 10:08:41 AM

i'm not sure that you've been following the bitcoin news lately but there have been SO MANY positive developments just in the past few weeks that its astounding

Bitcoin exchanges are much more important to the bitcoin economy compared to everything you've listed! Unfortunately, there is growing evidence that banks block every bank account that bitcoin exchanges use to do their business. That is a fact nobody can deny. I'm quite confident that even Dwolla's recent troubles with all those chargebacks and credit reversal coming from third party banks are due to serving bitcoin exchanges!

spruce

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Quote from: JackH on July 29, 2011, 10:17:35 AM

I tried mentioning Bitcoin to 3 Swiss banks as I was planning to setup an exchange. They all said no!

Had I lied, I would have gotten accounts open.

Yeah, but you couldn't expect to *keep* the account open if you had made a fundamental lie about your business model, and your business was relatively large with a large number of customers.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: JackH on July 29, 2011, 10:17:35 AM

I tried mentioning Bitcoin to 3 Swiss banks as I was planning to setup an exchange. They all said no!

Had I lied, I would have gotten accounts open.

That is the world we live in people, BTC is not welcome, FACE IT

i have no doubt that what you say is true.

but things are changing fast in the financial world and i for one am not willing to bet that things will continue as they have. the price of gold/silver/btc are testament to that fact.

i am betting against the large banks.

JackH

sr. member

Activity: 381

Merit: 255

I tried mentioning Bitcoin to 3 Swiss banks as I was planning to setup an exchange. They all said no!

Had I lied, I would have gotten accounts open.

That is the world we live in people, BTC is not welcome, FACE IT

spruce

full member

Activity: 140

Merit: 100

Quote from: Seraphim401 on July 29, 2011, 06:08:38 AM

Thanks for your patience regarding the SEPA withdrawal. We are experiencing the growing pains of Bitcoin legitimacy worldwide. Our Banco Sabadell SEPA account has been temporarily frozen by the bank, as they were contacted and told that the account is being used for a Bitcoin related business and are investigating the legitimacy of Bitcoin...

The TradeHill Team

So TradeHill somehow set up this main banking channel *without mentioning* bitcoin? Hmmm.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: becoin on July 29, 2011, 09:58:07 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on July 29, 2011, 09:45:30 AM

somewhere, sometime, someone is going to break ranks. the liquidity contraction that is going on worldwide will force this.

Sure, but it might be the bitcoin 'economy' that is going to break first! Because of liquidity contradiction!

Miners and mining pools have to pay their bills in fiat currencies, so they have to constantly sell the bitcoins they earn. The bitcoin exchange rate will go in a downward spiral if there is no bitcoin economy to support it. Without cheap and convenient way to exchange bitcoins against fiat currencies no established merchant will go the bitcoin way! Because enthusiasm can work to a certain limit, after that it is simply a matter of calculations and feasibility! This is why bitcoin exchanges must not depend on banks in such a way, because banks can very easily sabotage everything bitcoin-related.

i'm not sure that you've been following the bitcoin news lately but there have been SO MANY positive developments just in the past few weeks that its astounding:

1. Textcoin.uk.co- enables SMS text buying of btc w/o ANY BANKS! and they plan to go international very soon.
2. Bit-Pay-will enable btc holders to buy using btc from any merchant who decides to use their service. and merchants can decide to be paid EITHER in USD or btc.
3. several Android apps that provide POS pmts to merchants that accept btc. there are now 3 restaurants, not one, in NY city that accept btc.
4. Meze Grill will now act as a USD/BTC exchanger w/o ANY BANKS!
5. the proliferation of btc accepting merchants has gone parabolic if you look at the btc wiki page.
6. in case you hadn't noticed, financial stocks have been in a downtrend for 5 months now. B of A is now under $10 a share. if Wall St decides game over for tradtional stocks and bonds you could see an explosion in the BTC price. i actually predict this will happen at some point in the blink of an eye and everyone will be left behind.

becoin

legendary

Activity: 3431

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Quote from: cypherdoc on July 29, 2011, 09:45:30 AM

somewhere, sometime, someone is going to break ranks. the liquidity contraction that is going on worldwide will force this.

Sure, but it might be the bitcoin 'economy' that is going to break first! Because of liquidity contradiction!

Miners and mining pools have to pay their bills in fiat currencies, so they have to constantly sell the bitcoins they earn. The bitcoin exchange rate will go in a downward spiral if there is no bitcoin economy to support it. Without cheap and convenient way to exchange bitcoins against fiat currencies no established merchant will go the bitcoin way! Because enthusiasm can work to a certain limit, after that it is simply a matter of calculations and feasibility! This is why bitcoin exchanges must not depend on banks in such a way, because banks can very easily sabotage everything bitcoin-related.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

Quote from: becoin on July 29, 2011, 09:40:18 AM

Quote from: cypherdoc on July 29, 2011, 09:16:22 AM

the first bank that realizes the old game is over stands to make an incredible amt of money as well as establish a leadership role in the bitcoin economy.

It is not a question of understanding or a question of will. Why can't people understand this? No bank will be allowed to do this because they will lose their bank license. No government will tolerate such a bank for the same reason that no government can afford to not pay their debt to IMF and the WB!

i don't think you can be that dogmatic. for the most part you are correct SO FAR. large banks have acted like mindedly however at the expense of smaller banks. there is clear dissension. and your assumption presumes that things unsustainable can go on forever. yours is the fallacy of linear thinking.

somewhere, sometime, someone is going to break ranks. the liquidity contraction that is going on worldwide will force this. or they all go out of business together which i don't think happens.

Bitcoin is too good of an idea and is so tightly wound into the digital internet revolution that it will be impossible to ignore.

becoin

legendary

Activity: 3431

Merit: 1233

Quote from: cypherdoc on July 29, 2011, 09:16:22 AM

the first bank that realizes the old game is over stands to make an incredible amt of money as well as establish a leadership role in the bitcoin economy.

It is not a question of understanding or a question of will. Why can't people understand this? No bank will be allowed to do this because they will lose their bank license. No government will tolerate such a bank for the same reason that no government can afford to not pay their debt to IMF and the WB!

Yuusha

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Oh, that's just great... I just canceled my withdrawal with MtGox because it had taken two weeks and I would have to wait one additional week, and Tradehill now has SEPA, so I was going to use them instead... and now this happens.

So... no (easy) way for us Europeans to withdraw money until next week, then, I guess.

cypherdoc

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002

the first bank that realizes the old game is over stands to make an incredible amt of money as well as establish a leadership role in the bitcoin economy. they will also receive an allegiance from all bitcoiners for the foreseeable future.

if banks won't do, phone carriers already are. see Textcoin.uk.co

look around you at worldwide stock and bond markets, the death of fiat currencies is occurring right here right now before your very eyes.

wumpus

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1022

No Maps for These Territories

Quote from: JackH on July 29, 2011, 07:08:01 AM

- Do you see any comments by politicians anywhere anymore?
- Do you see any financial institution banning it or commenting on the Bitcoin economy?
- Do you see anyone taking notice of the Bitcoin economy in from the established financial community?

No. Which is good.

Those issues with frozen bank accounts happen to anyone which suddenly processes big amounts of money, doesn't matter if you're selling bitcoins or virtual credits for your game, they just require more documentation in that case.

Topic: Tradehill SEPA account frozen! - page 2. (Read 6130 times)