Tradesatoshi - BEWARE! Blocking without reasons. - page 10.

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Quote from: nutildah on March 26, 2019, 10:41:39 AM

I remember when I signed up for Poloniex in 2014 I gave them a fake name, because I didn't necessarily trust them, as most people didn't. Then when their Circle acquisition came and they insisted everyone do KYC, I said screw that, because where I lived didn't even allow bitcoin exchanges and Poloniex would have certainly taken that into consideration. Poloniex also gave me the option of changing my customer name, which Trade Satoshi does not. They let me withdraw my coins, and I moved on. This is the standard I'm used to... It seems to me when an exchange uses KYC as an excuse to with-hold customer coins, something fishy is going on. BiteBTC has been engaging in the same behavior.

Then as was pointed out, some people performed the KYC to the best of their ability and were still denied access to their funds. I strongly believe Trade Satoshi recently turned to the darkside as they've racked up a huge number of complaints on social media as of late. They've always had their share of unhappy customers, but now they have way more than their share.

An excellent post. Thank you.

That is the precise reason I added Tradesatoshi to my scam alert signature.

They are by all intent and purposes using KYC as an excuse to seize funds. Those that do not comply are frozen out and many those that do comply with their KYC are also being given the run-around or point blank refused access. They have all the hallmarks of selective scamming.

Regardless of what opinions people may have of Poloniex, when they added their forced KYC policy at least they allowed users the option to change their aliases to their real names then comply with KYC and for those that did not want to do it they allowed them to withdraw - simple.

I will take a closer look at BiteBTC and if they have also decided to go rogue then I will add them to my scam alert signature as well as leave red trust too.

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Quote from: xtraelv on March 26, 2019, 07:46:02 AM

Quote from: DiHunter on March 26, 2019, 07:41:58 AM

The issue you're talking about is: User agreed to pass the KYC-check, but the personal information, provided by him earlier was innacurate, so he can't complete it. This is only one aspect of this story.

But this is not the case, i'm talking about.
From one side, the exchange can ask for a mandatory KYC-check (normally with a notification in advance, which was not done by Traidsatoshi).
From the other side, user can deny to pass it. In that case he won't be able to trade anymore - this is ok. But, all the funds he had before KYC were deposited or traded by him under the Level 1 verification from Tradesatoshi, so they are all legal. So all this funds must be returned to the owner. By now Tradesatoshi is denying users to withdraw their funds, which is totally unacceptable!

Ultimately if you have used their platform - you agreed to the terms. By registering with a false or incorrect name or details you committed a fraudulent act or made a serious error when entering a contract.

Usually people don't need to "change their name details" unless they gave false details.

It is something you will need to sort out through their support ticket system. Ultimately though it comes down to a user error. (Deliberate or not)

The only way to check whether someone gave false details is to ask them to verify their identity which appears what they have done and appears consistent with their terms.

People will have opposing views on this but registering (entering into a contract) with a false name (alias) is a crime in some jurisdictions.

I remember when I signed up for Poloniex in 2014 I gave them a fake name, because I didn't necessarily trust them, as most people didn't. Then when their Circle acquisition came and they insisted everyone do KYC, I said screw that, because where I lived didn't even allow bitcoin exchanges and Poloniex would have certainly taken that into consideration. Poloniex also gave me the option of changing my customer name, which Trade Satoshi does not. They let me withdraw my coins, and I moved on. This is the standard I'm used to... It seems to me when an exchange uses KYC as an excuse to with-hold customer coins, something fishy is going on. BiteBTC has been engaging in the same behavior.

Then as was pointed out, some people performed the KYC to the best of their ability and were still denied access to their funds. I strongly believe Trade Satoshi recently turned to the darkside as they've racked up a huge number of complaints on social media as of late. They've always had their share of unhappy customers, but now they have way more than their share.

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Quote from: xtraelv on March 26, 2019, 07:46:02 AM

Ultimately if you have used their platform - you agreed to the terms. By registering with a false or incorrect name or details you committed a fraudulent act or made a serious error when entering a contract.

Usually people don't need to "change their name details" unless they gave false details.

It is something you will need to sort out through their support ticket system. Ultimately though it comes down to a user error. (Deliberate or not)

Take in mind, all the users had Level 1 verification from the exchange. So exchange approved their right to trade earlier.
At my request to provide any facts of fraudulent activity, the staff confirmed that this is a general check.
Also how can TS-staff know in advance whether the data is right or wrong before the KYC-check? It's a vicious circle, we're coming to.

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Quote from: DiHunter on March 26, 2019, 07:41:58 AM

The issue you're talking about is: User agreed to pass the KYC-check, but the personal information, provided by him earlier was innacurate, so he can't complete it. This is only one aspect of this story.

But this is not the case, i'm talking about.
From one side, the exchange can ask for a mandatory KYC-check (normally with a notification in advance, which was not done by Traidsatoshi).
From the other side, user can deny to pass it. In that case he won't be able to trade anymore - this is ok. But, all the funds he had before KYC were deposited or traded by him under the Level 1 verification from Tradesatoshi, so they are all legal. So all this funds must be returned to the owner. By now Tradesatoshi is denying users to withdraw their funds, which is totally unacceptable!

Ultimately if you have used their platform - you agreed to the terms. By registering with a false or incorrect name or details you committed a fraudulent act or made a serious error when entering a contract.

Usually people don't need to "change their name details" unless they gave false details.

It is something you will need to sort out through their support ticket system. Ultimately though it comes down to a user error. (Deliberate or not)

The only way to check whether someone gave false details is to ask them to verify their identity which appears what they have done and appears consistent with their terms.

People will have opposing views on this but registering (entering into a contract) with a false name (alias) is a crime in some jurisdictions.

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Quote from: xtraelv on March 26, 2019, 07:16:03 AM

...
It appears that the majority of the issues stem from people using either fake, altered or erroneous identities when registering.

This is in breach of their terms and conditions which specifically state (these are their old terms and conditions from when people signed up).

...

Quote

Use of the Platform As a condition of your use of the Platform, you represent and warrant to, and covenant with TradeSatoshi that: (a) you have reached the age of majority in your jurisdiction of residence; (b) you possess the legal authority to create a binding legal obligation; (c) you shall use the Platform in accordance with these Terms of Use and all applicable laws; and (d) all information supplied by you on the Platform is true, accurate, current and complete.

While is sympathize with people in this predicament it is a common thing people tend to do when they try to use a website using a false identity. (Give partially inaccurate or completely inaccurate identity).

I would recommend spending some $ and finding out the registered address of the exchange and sending a letter explaining the situation and providing written proof of identity.

It is possible that they checked the identity on a database and found no match. A lot of exchanges are forced by law to start KYC. Even some of the decentralized exchanges are on the radar of law enforcement.

I haven't personally used Tradesatoshi for more than a year so I can't comment on whether much has changed.

The issue you're talking about is: User agreed to pass the KYC-check, but the personal information, provided by him earlier was innacurate, so he can't complete it. This is only one aspect of this story.

But this is not the case, i'm talking about.
From one side, the exchange can ask for a mandatory KYC-check (normally with a notification in advance, which was not done by Traidsatoshi).
From the other side, user can deny to pass it. In that case he won't be able to trade anymore - this is ok. But, all the funds he had before KYC were deposited or traded by him under the Level 1 verification from Tradesatoshi, so they are all legal. So all this funds must be returned to the owner. By now the affected Tradesatoshi users are denied the right to withdraw their funds, which is totally unacceptable!

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Quote from: DiHunter on March 24, 2019, 07:21:29 AM

4. Some failed to complete it, because they had different data in their profile and their IDs. (they also couldn't change their data in profile - fields are read-only).

It appears that the majority of the issues stem from people using either fake, altered or erroneous identities when registering.

This is in breach of their terms and conditions which specifically state (these are their old terms and conditions from when people signed up).

https://web.archive.org/web/20170714045125/http://www.tradesatoshi.com/Home/Terms (2016-2017 terms)

Quote

Use of the Platform As a condition of your use of the Platform, you represent and warrant to, and covenant with TradeSatoshi that: (a) you have reached the age of majority in your jurisdiction of residence; (b) you possess the legal authority to create a binding legal obligation; (c) you shall use the Platform in accordance with these Terms of Use and all applicable laws; and (d) all information supplied by you on the Platform is true, accurate, current and complete.

While is sympathize with people in this predicament it is a common thing people tend to do when they try to use a website using a false identity. (Give partially inaccurate or completely inaccurate identity).

I would recommend spending some $ and finding out the registered address of the exchange and sending a letter explaining the situation and providing written proof of identity. (Or if there are a lot of funds - change you name by deed poll if you gave a fake one)

It is possible that they checked the identity on a database and found no match. A lot of exchanges are forced by law to start KYC. Even some of the decentralized exchanges are on the radar of law enforcement.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/02/secs-action-against-decentralized-exchange-raises-constitutional-questions

https://bravenewcoin.com/insights/sec-enforcement-threat-driving-kyc-aml-implementation-at-decentralized

I haven't personally used Tradesatoshi for more than a year so I can't comment on whether much has changed.

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Traidsatoshi trolls continue to spam their own topic to hide all reasonable posts and complaints:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1691388.500

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Quote from: DiHunter on March 25, 2019, 04:17:45 PM

Quote from: JollyGood on March 25, 2019, 02:22:12 PM

What are the Bitcointalk usernames for Tradesatoshi? Time to leave red trust for them

This one was active long ago:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/trade-sa-to-shi-902367

This one is currently active in their topic, he posts news:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/zyrenth-2326516

This one is a troll,which actively spams in Tradesatoshi-topic to hide all the complaints; has a signature "tradesatoshi", but I guess not from the staff.
His bolivarcoin is traded on Tradesatoshi at 99% from overall trading volume - 40$ )
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/bolivarcoin-543083

Thank you.

As soon as others leave red trust for the Tradesatoshi users involved I will add my own red trust too

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Quote from: JollyGood on March 25, 2019, 02:22:12 PM

What are the Bitcointalk usernames for Tradesatoshi? Time to leave red trust for them

This one was active long ago:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/trade-sa-to-shi-902367

This one is currently active in their topic, he posts news:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/zyrenth-2326516

This one is a troll,which actively spams in Tradesatoshi-topic to hide all the complaints; has a signature "tradesatoshi", but I guess not from the staff.
His bolivarcoin is traded on Tradesatoshi at 99% from overall trading volume - 40$ )
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/bolivarcoin-543083

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Quote from: DiHunter on March 25, 2019, 01:38:14 PM

Quote from: nutildah on March 25, 2019, 12:14:19 PM

I know I asked you for screenshots earlier -- you posted a good deal of evidence in this thread. I'm going to give them one chance to explain themselves before issuing a red tag... Its the only thing we can do to discourage others from depositing on their site. As far as getting your money back is concerned -- there isn't a whole lot to be done, unfortunately Undecided

Thanks again.
I'm not worried a lot about money - not that much was lost. I was more stunned by the insolence with which the exchange pulled off this scam. So if we can keep as many users away from these fraudsters as possible, it will fully compensate me for my losses.

What are the Bitcointalk usernames for Tradesatoshi? Time to leave red trust for them

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Quote from: nutildah on March 25, 2019, 12:14:19 PM

I know I asked you for screenshots earlier -- you posted a good deal of evidence in this thread. I'm going to give them one chance to explain themselves before issuing a red tag... Its the only thing we can do to discourage others from depositing on their site. As far as getting your money back is concerned -- there isn't a whole lot to be done, unfortunately Undecided

Thanks again.
I'm not worried a lot about money - not that much was lost. I was more stunned by the insolence with which the exchange pulled off this scam. So if we can keep as many users away from these fraudsters as possible, it will fully compensate me for my losses.

DiHunter

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Quote from: Jose61 on March 25, 2019, 12:03:03 PM

This volume is not real. Bot buys the same amount all the time. Look at the transaction history.

In this case their volume is even more ridiculous.

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Quote from: nutildah on March 25, 2019, 12:14:19 PM

I know I asked you for screenshots earlier -- you posted a good deal of evidence in this thread. I'm going to give them one chance to explain themselves before issuing a red tag... Its the only thing we can do to discourage others from depositing on their site. As far as getting your money back is concerned -- there isn't a whole lot to be done, unfortunately Undecided

Well the red trust will go a long way to keeping those familiar with crypto to keep away from them and it will give advise gullible people and newbies to find another exchange.

I already added them to my scam alert signature but am giving them just a little more time to get back to the OP with a satisfactory reply otherwise red trust will be added too and not removed.

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I know I asked you for screenshots earlier -- you posted a good deal of evidence in this thread. I'm going to give them one chance to explain themselves before issuing a red tag... Its the only thing we can do to discourage others from depositing on their site. As far as getting your money back is concerned -- there isn't a whole lot to be done, unfortunately Undecided

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This volume is not real. Bot buys the same amount all the time. Look at the transaction history.

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Quote from: JollyGood on March 25, 2019, 05:02:43 AM

These scammers must have made a lot of money from their selective scammer techniques. Not all of those getting scammed come here and open a Scam thread so we will never know exact numbers but since the OP has brought this matter to the attention of the community we all need to relay the message so gullible people and newbies stay away from the Tradesatoshi scam.

Another dialog from discord which clearly shows us, that Traidsatoshi had never intended to make and had not made any notifications prior KYC-check started.
They just had blocked and freezed legal funds. And the do not intend to return them to the owners!

Pay attention at messages of user "phael". He is in a special group at Tradesatoshi-discord - satoshians, so he is not a "first day"- user, we can rely on his words.

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Quote from: DiHunter on March 25, 2019, 02:08:38 AM

Great trend:

These scammers must have made a lot of money from their selective scammer techniques. Not all of those getting scammed come here and open a Scam thread so we will never know exact numbers but since the OP has brought this matter to the attention of the community we all need to relay the message so gullible people and newbies stay away from the Tradesatoshi scam.

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Some very good comments from tradesatoshi-topic:

The level of comminication in tradesatoshi-topic from tradesatoshi-staff or just tradesatoshi-lovers is "amazing"! They are making great job to bring more "popularity" to this scam-exchange.

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Quote from: JollyGood on March 24, 2019, 10:59:43 AM

...
Thank you for your kind words. As you mentioned the purpose of highlighting these scammers is to simply inform newbies and gullible members of the community to keep away from them.

I am glad you noticed the lack of activity was alarming when you made your sole trade on Tradesatoshi and had the feeling they would exit scam at some point. That for me is still the inevitable outcome but first they will probably selective scam customer just as they have done to the OP.

I am not looking too deeply at their alleged motives for closure of the UK company and registering it in Hong Kong or anything else, it is just the selective scamming they are doing which is akin to what CHANGELLY, CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP along with FLYP.ME, HOLY TRANSACTION and ROCK TRADING are doing (as mentioned in my Scam Alert signature)

Yeah, seems they are going to exit scam some day. They lost the competition. Users don't want to trade on this exchange because it is not safe. And as a result their trading volume is very low and keeps falling:

Great trend:

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Quote from: fortunecrypto on March 24, 2019, 10:38:20 AM

Quote from: JollyGood on March 24, 2019, 07:32:10 AM

I am adding these Tradesatoshi scammers to my Scam Alert signature

Nice move this is good for people's awareness, this should be stopped, there are still good exchange out there, I only trade once in tradesatoshi and I notice the exchange lack activity, I just knew they will do a scam exit because they are being beaten by the competition.

Thank you for your kind words. As you mentioned the purpose of highlighting these scammers is to simply inform newbies and gullible members of the community to keep away from them.

I am glad you noticed the lack of activity was alarming when you made your sole trade on Tradesatoshi and had the feeling they would exit scam at some point. That for me is still the inevitable outcome but first they will probably selective scam customer just as they have done to the OP.

I am not looking too deeply at their alleged motives for closure of the UK company and registering it in Hong Kong or anything else, it is just the selective scamming they are doing which is akin to what CHANGELLY, CHANGENOW & ATOMIC SWAP along with FLYP.ME, HOLY TRANSACTION and ROCK TRADING are doing (as mentioned in my Scam Alert signature)

Topic: Tradesatoshi - BEWARE! Blocking without reasons. - page 10. (Read 4033 times)