Trading is a zero sum game. - page 2.

BitHodler

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Quote from: d1ceplayer on December 22, 2018, 07:09:02 AM

There are people who are so good in trading that they hardly experience loss while trading, and there are those who are still novice and lose money every time.

And how exactly do you know that there are people who hardly lose on their trades? Is it based on facts or just an assumption of yours? There are too many people online claiming to be an expert or elite trader.

If you look further, they mostly try to sell you signals or memberships to make a few bucks. What expert or elite trader needs these forms of income if trading is so profitable?

There is way too much shady business going on in this industry, all to make sure newbies who don't know shit about trading or investing will sign up and put all their faith and hope into someone's basic understanding of TA.

d1ceplayer

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Quote from: Indamuck on December 14, 2018, 10:04:12 AM

We have some of the most intelligent people in the world working on extracting as much wealth as possible from high volume trading. For someone to gain money in the market someone most lose. Imagine if we had these minds working on solving real world problems that would actually benefit society. Just like gambling, trading is zero sum.

Not everyone loses. I think what you’re trying to say is that for you to make profit you will have to take the risk. When taking the risk you’re not sure yet whether you’re going to win or lose, you’re just taking the risk because you know that there is a reward if you should pass.

There are people who are so good in trading that they hardly experience loss while trading, and there are those who are still novice and lose money every time.

posi

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Quote from: mabugaaj on December 19, 2018, 02:57:40 PM

Quote from: Indamuck on December 14, 2018, 10:04:12 AM

We have some of the most intelligent people in the world working on extracting as much wealth as possible from high volume trading. For someone to gain money in the market someone most lose. Imagine if we had these minds working on solving real world problems that would actually benefit society. Just like gambling, trading is zero sum.

It's important to completely understand that law, to start earning at trading. 95% of people are losing money in long-term.
But i don't think that trading is "just like gambling". Traders/investors are helping the market, by taking the risk of "losing". Also traders are some sort of arbiter/judge. They are making the hole world progress faster and more effectively, by choosing the "good" projects.

You have spoken well because crypto trading and gambling are indeed alike because they both involve in risk taking and every prediction make in trading are totally not guarantee but learn to understand laws, rules and regulations of trading are the only thing which make a crypto trader understand to enter and exit the market. Besides, it will also make crypto trader to confident about the future of crypto market even though the are not looking good like this days.

mabugaaj

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Quote from: Indamuck on December 14, 2018, 10:04:12 AM

We have some of the most intelligent people in the world working on extracting as much wealth as possible from high volume trading. For someone to gain money in the market someone most lose. Imagine if we had these minds working on solving real world problems that would actually benefit society. Just like gambling, trading is zero sum.

It's important to completely understand that law, to start earning at trading. 95% of people are losing money in long-term.
But i don't think that trading is "just like gambling". Traders/investors are helping the market, by taking the risk of "losing". Also traders are some sort of arbiter/judge. They are making the hole world progress faster and more effectively, by choosing the "good" projects.

haroldtee

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Quote from: Questat on December 16, 2018, 07:37:39 AM

That's the sad reality in trading, unfortunately those people who think about money and forget about the risk will most likely to lose.
Even though there are information in the space but we should also be careful because it's like in the real world, there are info that are false and it's only created to mislead people on their decision making, that'st the reality, anyone can lose hard if we are lazy in learning on our own.

That is usually the thing! A lot of people enter into trading, without considering the risk and one thing is that, if you do not know the risk involved in something, how on earth will you ever be able to manage that risk? It is very funny that a lot of people have no idea what they are getting into, but they get into it anyway, with the hope of getting rich over night. However, as long as you are a normal trader in the retail perspective, you just have to understand that every move you make is a risk and you must plan ahead for every of those moves. If you do not have a trading plan which includes stop loss, reward to risk ratio, then you are just going to end up screwed anyway.

milewilda

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Quote from: btc_angela on December 17, 2018, 05:11:20 AM

Quote from: Indamuck on December 14, 2018, 10:04:12 AM

We have some of the most intelligent people in the world working on extracting as much wealth as possible from high volume trading. For someone to gain money in the market someone most lose. Imagine if we had these minds working on solving real world problems that would actually benefit society. Just like gambling, trading is zero sum.

I don't think if we have those minds and collaborate with each other to solved problems, we still have more problems being born every minute. Regarding trading and making the most money, its human nature and the fittest survived. Other win but majority losses because crypto trading is a free market.

Not only on crypto but on all sorts of investment that do really involved trading like forex/stocks and even traditional businesses. You would always end up to have a competition and as said only the fittest would survive.
Its good to think or to be concern about equality but life wont really be fair no matter what. If someone gains then there would be losses.Its just like that.
As said above most people wont really care at all if they do already stepped into someone as long they are gaining benefits on their own.

nl247

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Well, in a lot of ways, you are right, but that depends on how you approach trading anyway. If you approach it as a pure gambling then you will expect to see it act that way based on the decisions you will be making, but if you see it as something you have to do right, you sure will have a good plan to always do things right as long as you know what you are doing. We are all trying to anticipate movement in the market as retail traders, and the earlier you get used to that, and know how you can handle yourself as a trader with a good plan, the better for you as a person.

Zapitmyname

newbie

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Quote from: Sadlife on December 14, 2018, 08:47:59 PM

Well that's just how society is, people tend to only care about themselves and doesn't mind what happens to their surroundings but for me it is the smart way to live minding your own business. But sometimes there are people who helps even though they dont have the intelligence or the money. I like those kind of idiots.

Exactly. That is what I think about this. The social marginal cost curve is above the private marginal benefit which means that there is individualism rather than a holistic profit scenario. So it is like a zero sum game.

Idrisu

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I agree with you just that it most be like this either we like it or not. Someone must be losing for another to be gaining. If we keep away from that system the world may not go around as it is not everybody that can solved world problems.

DarkBullet

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That's how trading works. When someone is loosing, someone also winning the game and that is the cycle of trading. We can be on the winning side most of the time if we just trade actively, smartly and with full of awareness with the fundamental results. The goal is to earn so to achieve that, we have to be in control of our emotions and propering reading of technical analysis is a plus. I could say that most team on the winning side are those traders with over a year experience.

herurist

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Quote from: Indamuck on December 14, 2018, 10:04:12 AM

We have some of the most intelligent people in the world working on extracting as much wealth as possible from high volume trading. For someone to gain money in the market someone most lose. Imagine if we had these minds working on solving real world problems that would actually benefit society. Just like gambling, trading is zero sum.

Agree with you, they can change many people life with their ideas and hard work. I'm afraid people with skill and knowledge like that never show their works because people have negative ( mostly ) opinion and some of them against. That's why they keep stay living in garage/ room with out many disturbing. World need them but also respect their work.

Questat

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Quote from: Maricel2017 on December 17, 2018, 09:43:18 PM

That is why we need to follow the golden rule of investment, just invest the amount that you can afford to lose specially right now we all know that the market value is like a crazy having small pump then huge dump next that is why much better to keep away in trading at this moment to avoid huge loses.

I can see this rule most of the time when I read books and read comments from experts, but it seems like because of greediness
people tend to fail in following this. Most of us only improve when we make mistakes and I hope we will not make the same mistake twice before we learn.

Maricel2017

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That is why we need to follow the golden rule of investment, just invest the amount that you can afford to lose specially right now we all know that the market value is like a crazy having small pump then huge dump next that is why much better to keep away in trading at this moment to avoid huge loses.

outsidertrader

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Quote from: Indamuck on December 14, 2018, 10:04:12 AM

We have some of the most intelligent people in the world working on extracting as much wealth as possible from high volume trading. For someone to gain money in the market someone most lose. Imagine if we had these minds working on solving real world problems that would actually benefit society. Just like gambling, trading is zero sum.

I waste too much time of my life using my mind to "solve real problems".

The "Real World civilization" doesn´t care about you or your works.

You may do what ever you want with your life.

I wake now. I work for me.

adaseb

legendary

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He is correct. Trading especially futures or derivatives is mostly zero-sum.

If you got an 401K and you use it to buy stocks that you keep for 25 years then its not really zero-sum because due to inflation stocks generally usually go up in value.

However when you buy a derivative contract on Bitmex, someone has to sell you that contract. So basically one person will either have to cover with a loss or with a profit. The rest are the commissions that the brokerage or exchange gets.

Dimon8

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Anyone who really wants to address the real problems of society and the planet is already engaged in this. First you need to be honest with yourself. We are members of this community who came to crypto only for the purpose of making money. Other questions interest us less. It would be great if people with great intelligence and big money would pay a lot of attention to the problems that the governments do not deal with.

D3m1r4wanti

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however you make statements about crypto currency trading but this is very difficult to stop, some people are very confident about the future of crypto currency trading, even though in reality it is detrimental to some people.

rodalutor

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Quote from: bitgolden on December 17, 2018, 03:06:25 AM

Quote from: Indamuck on December 14, 2018, 10:04:12 AM

We have some of the most intelligent people in the world working on extracting as much wealth as possible from high volume trading. For someone to gain money in the market someone most lose. Imagine if we had these minds working on solving real world problems that would actually benefit society. Just like gambling, trading is zero sum.

That's not exactly true. The price could go up without anyone selling anything which means if I have 1 bitcoin and it is at 3 thousand dollars and I don't sell it and it goes to 4 thousand dollars that means I made 1 thousand dollar profit, also if I sell it at 4 thousand dollars and someone else buys it and it goes to 5 thousand dollars it means that person made 1 thousand dollars too.

Yes I am missing out on an extra 1 thousand dollar profit in that case but still I have not made any lost. That way the trading becomes not something like a zero sum game but it is just who will make the most money. The only way people lose money trading is when they sell lower than they bought, otherwise during the peak times of bitcoin there was a lot of people profiting while selling and everyone was at a gain while no one was losing.

While I agree with what you're saying it's easy to see why you can argue the other-side. From a pure economics point of view, considering profit maximization if you sell at a profit of $1000 but could've had $2000 you've lost out on $1000. It's not practical to think that way from the point of view of someone trading but it is the simple truth if modelling the market.

btc_angela

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Quote from: Indamuck on December 14, 2018, 10:04:12 AM

We have some of the most intelligent people in the world working on extracting as much wealth as possible from high volume trading. For someone to gain money in the market someone most lose. Imagine if we had these minds working on solving real world problems that would actually benefit society. Just like gambling, trading is zero sum.

I don't think if we have those minds and collaborate with each other to solved problems, we still have more problems being born every minute. Regarding trading and making the most money, its human nature and the fittest survived. Other win but majority losses because crypto trading is a free market.

bitgolden

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Quote from: Indamuck on December 14, 2018, 10:04:12 AM

We have some of the most intelligent people in the world working on extracting as much wealth as possible from high volume trading. For someone to gain money in the market someone most lose. Imagine if we had these minds working on solving real world problems that would actually benefit society. Just like gambling, trading is zero sum.

That's not exactly true. The price could go up without anyone selling anything which means if I have 1 bitcoin and it is at 3 thousand dollars and I don't sell it and it goes to 4 thousand dollars that means I made 1 thousand dollar profit, also if I sell it at 4 thousand dollars and someone else buys it and it goes to 5 thousand dollars it means that person made 1 thousand dollars too.

Yes I am missing out on an extra 1 thousand dollar profit in that case but still I have not made any lost. That way the trading becomes not something like a zero sum game but it is just who will make the most money. The only way people lose money trading is when they sell lower than they bought, otherwise during the peak times of bitcoin there was a lot of people profiting while selling and everyone was at a gain while no one was losing.

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