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Topic: "Transaction fees need to be $10+ in order for Bitcoin to survive" (Read 2675 times)

legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
One of the benefits of BTC is the low TX fees, a fee of $10 per TX would almost be worse than CC fees lol

I am living in Asia. My bank charges me $0.05 whenever I transfer money to someone else's account. A TX fee of $10 is almost 200 times that amount. No one will be using BTC if something like that happens.

You are lucky, I know there are some banks charge 4-5 dollars for a simple bank transfer. However no one will continue to use bitcoin if the fee will be 10$ per transaction, it would be difficult to accept.
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
If I remember correctly Friedcat from Asicminer made a brief analysis about cost per transaction and what would be needed for Bitcoin to survive after the next halving.

Friedcat wanted to increase the TX fee in 2013. Never got much support. Check this:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1fxkct/friedcat_transaction_fees_must_be_15_btc_by_next/

But I have great respect for the guy, after this incident:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1lb5my/asicminer_refunds_the_accidental_200_btc/
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
THE DIFFICULTY WILL ADJUST IF THERE ARE LESS MINERS MINING. IT MAY TAKE A WHILE TO HIT A NEW DIFFICULTY BUT IT WILL FALL IF PEOPLE STOP MINING DUE TO NO BLOCK REWARD WHICH LEAVES MORE BTC FOR THOSE WHO ARE MINING.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
If I remember correctly Friedcat from Asicminer made a brief analysis about cost per transaction and what would be needed for Bitcoin to survive after the next halving.
legendary
Activity: 3766
Merit: 1217
One of the benefits of BTC is the low TX fees, a fee of $10 per TX would almost be worse than CC fees lol

I am living in Asia. My bank charges me $0.05 whenever I transfer money to someone else's account. A TX fee of $10 is almost 200 times that amount. No one will be using BTC if something like that happens.
hero member
Activity: 882
Merit: 500
One of the benefits of BTC is the low TX fees, a fee of $10 per TX would almost be worse than CC fees lol

Yeah, at $10, an actual altcoin may have a legit chance to steal some of the marketshare from BTC.
legendary
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1023
One of the benefits of BTC is the low TX fees, a fee of $10 per TX would almost be worse than CC fees lol
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
If I had to pay $10 per bitcoin transaction just to feed some fat chums wallet because he spent all his money on mining rigs, I'll ditch the network. Stupid fat greedy man.

if the cost price of $10, I will make an online wallet Smiley

and I would be rich haha
hero member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 513
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
What most tend to forget is that Satoshi Nakamoto gave us a model.

After all, the first car builders are no longer in business today.

Don't mean that the original idea hasn't been refined through the generations by others.

Once Bitcoin has seized mining, many will still likely mine it but other coins will pick up in value to pick up where Bitcoin couldn't go.

Bitcoin isn't the entire crypto market, it's one general for currency for the crypto market.
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1001
To the OP, what is the end game after all the Bitcoins are distributed?  You state that block rewards are meant to be a form of distribution, and they are that, but not limited to just that.  They are also a reward for miners to cover their expenses.  And right now they have A LOT of expenses.  It works out to at least $3 a transaction. 

Here is how to figure it out.  The most efficient mining operation in China is producing bitcoins at $80 a piece.  Lots others are of course have to spend far more than that to get a Bitcoin but lets assume the best case scenario that miners are willing to mine for $80 a coin. 

Each day there are how many Bitcoins produced?  lets see......  6 blocks per hour times 24 hours = 144 blocks times 25 coins per block = 3600 per day

Now the most efficient and best miners need at least $80 per Bitcoin to keep the doors open.  So 3600 x $80 is $288,000 per day.  Now on a very good day (again best case scenario) we will have 100,000 transactions per day.  That means the price of each transaction being paid to miners is at least at a bare minimum $2.88.  In reality that number is actually much higher than that.  That is where the $10 figure comes from. 

Now someday there will be no block reward at all.  Who then is going to pay the miners their standard $2.88 - $10 fee?  One would assume at that point the only place it could come from is the users paying fees. 

So therefore at some point in the halving of blocks game we reach a turning point.  That is the point where block subsidies no longer cover the price for all those hashes.  Again this is inevitable because sooner later the block reward is 0.  And even by the 10th block halving it is under 1 Bitcoin per block. So if the miners don't get their cash then they shut down their hashers and the network dies.  We all know that miners are selfish and are there for the profit.  Take away their reward and they leave. 

 

Where is your explanation and theory about BTC to Fiat price increasing over time?
The Halvings will have an effect of making BTC more rare, thus price should increase to compensate.
When price increases, this "problem" will not exist. When there are no more "rewards" (which is an incorrect term), tx fees will be mandated.
And if the price doesn't increase atleast 100% in the next four years, then Bitcoin has big problems.
legendary
Activity: 1232
Merit: 1001
mining is so 2012-2013
...
Down the road I would like to see Bitcoin to be something that people support voluntarily, not expecting any rewards. If you're involved in a Bitcoin business you set up enough full nodes to give back to the network, you do it because you want to, not because there is money to be made there. Same goes for people who want to run a node in their garage to actually support the network.

Just my 2c.

All we know the money part is necessary in the bitcoin blockchain, but maybe you are right : people see only  FIAT money, nothing else. I want to see what will happen after the next halving ( 25 BTC >> 12.5 BTC) will the miner stop , or will the price rise

If the bitcoin revolution/experiment will fail, the blockchain will stay for sure.

I think the network can pretty easily survive a couple of block halvings.  If the price of Bitcoins goes up a lot, then even 6 BTC per block would be fine I guess, but after that I am not sure.  I would like to see somebody crunch numbers to see just how much hash and nodes a network with x amount of transactions can get by with.   
legendary
Activity: 1778
Merit: 1043
#Free market
...
Down the road I would like to see Bitcoin to be something that people support voluntarily, not expecting any rewards. If you're involved in a Bitcoin business you set up enough full nodes to give back to the network, you do it because you want to, not because there is money to be made there. Same goes for people who want to run a node in their garage to actually support the network.

Just my 2c.

All we know the money part is necessary in the bitcoin blockchain, but maybe you are right : people see only  FIAT money, nothing else. I want to see what will happen after the next halving ( 25 BTC >> 12.5 BTC) will the miner stop , or will the price rise

If the bitcoin revolution/experiment will fail, the blockchain will stay for sure.
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
I think that having 0 block reward would be what fixes one aspect of Bitcoin. Currently the arms race miners are participating in is just plain right stupid. It's a gold rush, people see only dollar signs, and it's all due to those block rewards. Not only aren't we creating centralised mining pools, but since most of the pools can be treated as just a handful of full nodes, they do more harm than good overall (weak network, big energy usage).

Yeah, it's necessary to popularise Bitcoin, but do we really need this for more than 100 years as it is currently? I personally would prefer to stop the giveaway much sooner and find a new way to reach the 21m cap.

Down the road I would like to see Bitcoin to be something that people support voluntarily, not expecting any rewards. If you're involved in a Bitcoin business you set up enough full nodes to give back to the network, you do it because you want to, not because there is money to be made there. Same goes for people who want to run a node in their garage to actually support the network.

Just my 2c.
Q7
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Probably that is not something for us to figure out or worry about the best possible solution. I wont be around by then. Anyway i hope when the day comes the transaction fee will be based on bitcoins worth not in dollar's worth of equivalent value. So setting a $10, $100 or whatever value in dollar might not be relevant by then.
legendary
Activity: 3668
Merit: 6382
Looking for campaign manager? Contact icopress!
You may be right, but I think that you are wrong.

Bitcoin can and should easily survive with 1% of the mining power it needs now (or less!).
People started realizing it's not worth it and started shutting down their rigs.

I know, the usual problem is that 51% attack will be piece of cake for somebody used to mine. And this is the problem to be solved. The only idea that comes into my mind is the infamous PoS, but I am sure that smarter people than me can find a solution. (maybe AuxPoW can be another solution, but yeah, that means admitting the King is in trouble).

Else we will remember Bitcoin as a great technology, destroyed by greed.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
even if the cost is too high, they are reluctant to use bitcoin  Undecided
newbie
Activity: 50
Merit: 0
If this happens, probably the end of all of us to even use bitcoin,
full member
Activity: 233
Merit: 102
First of all, how do you denominate something in USD when talking about a part of the Bitcoin protocol ?

1. USD is not an universal currency like Bitcoin.

2. FIAT value is varying from exchange to exchange.

I look forward to one day ignoring the value of even thinking about USD , but the reality we currently face is USD is still the largest reserve currency worldwide by a healthy margin

We live in some prosperous times - no wars, nothing to want for, choices/freedom so diverse it can be overwhelming... I think the only reason people speak shit about fiat/USD is because they've never lived through real adversity. And by that I mean fighting a wars in far away lands, or starving through the great depression, or the 6 or 7 years in the 70s when dunking was not allowed in the NBA.

I like Bitcoin, but the DOWN WITH FIAT!!![ and chant-worthy diatribes (not you per se, but like a college demonstration screaming... 2 bits, 4 bits, 6 bits, a dollar, all who hate the Feds in here, give me a hollar!)
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
"Transaction fees need to be $10+ in order for Bitcoin to survive"

member
Activity: 104
Merit: 10
high transactions, or high volume, or miners turn off mining equipments, offer and demand...

right, it isn't like they are going to work for free or at losses.  take away their profits and they take away the hashes.
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