Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them?

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: theymos on April 06, 2011, 05:40:10 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 06, 2011, 05:24:28 PM

If it's just a relay, it shouldn't be listed under "Participating miners"...

I didn't list it there -- you did:
https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Free_transaction_relay_policy&action=historysubmit&diff=5304&oldid=5290
You also listed your relay.

Oops, misunderstood your original addition. Guess we don't have anyone taking free transactions then.

The element listed is my miner, not my relay.

theymos

administrator

Activity: 5222

Merit: 13032

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 06, 2011, 05:24:28 PM

If it's just a relay, it shouldn't be listed under "Participating miners"...

I didn't list it there -- you did:
https://en.bitcoin.it/w/index.php?title=Free_transaction_relay_policy&action=historysubmit&diff=5304&oldid=5290
You also listed your relay.

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: theymos on April 06, 2011, 04:11:54 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 06, 2011, 03:53:01 PM

No, it's just a relay. Miners who want to accept "boycotted" transactions connect to it. People who want to send them connect to it. Theymos, at least, advertises his miner as completely fee-free.

Mine's also just a relay, which is why I put it on the same wiki page as yours.

If it's just a relay, it shouldn't be listed under "Participating miners"...

theymos

administrator

Activity: 5222

Merit: 13032

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 06, 2011, 03:53:01 PM

No, it's just a relay. Miners who want to accept "boycotted" transactions connect to it. People who want to send them connect to it. Theymos, at least, advertises his miner as completely fee-free.

Mine's also just a relay, which is why I put it on the same wiki page as yours.

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

Quote from: Stephen Gornick on April 06, 2011, 03:05:57 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 06, 2011, 12:36:25 PM

If you restart bitcoind with -addnode=173.242.112.53 it will get into a block eventually.

That node will include the ultra-micro transaction even though it includes no fee?

No, it's just a relay. Miners who want to accept "boycotted" transactions connect to it. People who want to send them connect to it. Theymos, at least, advertises his miner as completely fee-free.

jgarzik

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1100

Quote from: Stephen Gornick on April 06, 2011, 03:05:57 PM

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 06, 2011, 12:36:25 PM

If you restart bitcoind with -addnode=173.242.112.53 it will get into a block eventually.

That node will include the ultra-micro transaction even though it includes no fee?

Yes. Luke-jr's node is special.

Stephen Gornick

legendary

Activity: 2506

Merit: 1010

Quote from: Luke-Jr on April 06, 2011, 12:36:25 PM

If you restart bitcoind with -addnode=173.242.112.53 it will get into a block eventually.

That node will include the ultra-micro transaction even though it includes no fee?

Luke-Jr

legendary

Activity: 2576

Merit: 1186

If you restart bitcoind with -addnode=173.242.112.53 it will get into a block eventually.

jgarzik

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1100

Quote from: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 09:20:36 AM

Any way to stop it trying to broadcast, to "cancel" a transaction that's not been processed/confirmed yet?

Not at present. But I have an open proposal for people to expire TX's from the TX cache, which would permit this.

Nefario

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 513

GLBSE Support [email protected]

Nice to know.
Any way to stop it trying to broadcast, to "cancel" a transaction that's not been processed/confirmed yet?

Gavin Andresen

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 2301

Chief Scientist

Quote from: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 07:40:59 AM

OK that's pretty much what I was talking about then. So my stupidly small transaction at the moment won't be accepted by most miners, which means it wont get recorded in the block chain which means it wont happen, right?

Yes, and right now it will sit in your wallet at 0 confirmations and get rebroadcast once in a blue moon (ok, not that long, but I'm too lazy right now to dig out the rules for when transactions are rebroadcast) until it DOES make it into a block.

And you'll have to hack your copy of bitcoin to be able to send a less-than-.01 transaction without a fee; the RPC send* methods automatically add the fee, and the GUI will tell you a fee is necessary (and won't let you send unless you agree to it).

slush

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1097

Quote from: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 07:40:59 AM

OK that's pretty much what I was talking about then. So my stupidly small transaction at the moment won't be accepted by most miners, which means it wont get recorded in the block chain which means it wont happen, right?

Exactly.

Nefario

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 513

GLBSE Support [email protected]

OK that's pretty much what I was talking about then. So my stupidly small transaction at the moment won't be accepted by most miners, which means it wont get recorded in the block chain which means it wont happen, right?

Pieter Wuille

legendary

Activity: 1072

Merit: 1181

The protocol deals with transactions down to 0.00000001 BTC just fine. Most miners will however not accept such a transaction without fee.

Nefario

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 513

GLBSE Support [email protected]

Quote from: slush on April 06, 2011, 07:21:16 AM

Oh sorry, I read it badly, you're talking about transactions, not about transaction fees.

Well I'm just curious what happens if I send such a small amount if the network only handles 0.01 as the smallest? Will the transaction attempt be rejected?

slush

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1097

Oh sorry, I read it badly, you're talking about transactions, not about transaction fees.

Nefario

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 513

GLBSE Support [email protected]

Quote from: Pieter Wuille on April 06, 2011, 07:09:00 AM

Transactions are never eaten. Either they are accepted, or they are ignored by miners.

Sorry wrong use of words.

What I meant was, that if I were to send, for example 0.0001btc to an address, that would be recorded as leaving my wallet, and would be given to a miner as a transaction fee, such that nothing arrives at the address I sent to?

Pieter Wuille

legendary

Activity: 1072

Merit: 1181

Transactions are never eaten. Either they are accepted, or they are ignored by miners.

Nefario

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 513

GLBSE Support [email protected]

Quote from: slush on April 06, 2011, 06:43:30 AM

Quote from: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 05:50:11 AM

I understand that the network has set a limit on transaction size, the smallest being 0.01(right?), I know that smaller than this has been sent, but not recieved, where has it gone?

Afaik the fee under 0.01 is still received by miner, but such small fee does not improve transaction priority.

So this means my transaction has been eaten by a miner on it's way to an address?

slush

legendary

Activity: 1386

Merit: 1097

Quote from: Nefario on April 06, 2011, 05:50:11 AM

I understand that the network has set a limit on transaction size, the smallest being 0.01(right?), I know that smaller than this has been sent, but not recieved, where has it gone?

Afaik the fee under 0.01 is still received by miner, but such small fee does not improve transaction priority.

Topic: Transactions too small for the network, what happens to them? (Read 3034 times)