Topic: Transparent Crypto Coin Swap Guidelines - page 2. (Read 5058 times)

I hope you don't force every address to use vanity otherwise the entire network loses massive entropy.. sounds like you are going to use POS still... gluck with that... POS is slowly becoming dying codebase.

I agree -- which is why we have materially modified the way the system supports both POW and POS blocks, in part by doing a "coalesce" operation that happens in normal sends and in minimum unspent output size (beta is at 100 coins) -- otherwise the wallet bundles up smaller outputs and sends to itself, creating an opportunity for another POW block reward.

I also agree that the code is not very efficient -- which we'll be upgrading in the coming months to make it more efficient -- currently it wastes a lot of time scanning unspent outputs every few seconds looking for an eligible unit for staking -- which is just silly because it should be able to keep a sorted list and set a timer ;-)

-dvd

The pos code is horrible ypu should steer far away from it..

That is interesting... Didn't know that. Could you please tell which particular coins/wallets are those.?

We've decided to reboot GiveCoin 2.0 as a completely new chain, including changing the address type to support vanity "Give***" style addresses.

The primary motivator however was that we determined that some POS coinbases and wallets have "backdoor keys" in them that allow the developers to essentially do unlimited staking!

More details about our design and value proposition can be found in the whitepaper:

http://bit.ly/2GiveCoin

He was left negative cause he didnt account for fees of sending.. Clams went one step further and snapshotted a few utxo databases so any of those with priv keysin those chains can claim coins... Syscoin will do a snapshot of the utxo db and place those coins in the new chain via a tool, similar to what you described.

Congratulations on possibly the very first transparent and automatic coin swap.

@mrbodz aka Ahmed

What your proposing i partially did.

By using a block explorer i scraped the old GreencoinV1 blockchain.
Premined the total supply
Created GreencoinV2
Used the premine and sent all the balances to users of GreencoinV1

Left with 0.000  coins (actually ended up with - in this case and re-couped 11 users via the coins from another dev)

Users were able to import V1 privkeys into V2 and they were able to see their balance in the new wallet. Automatic and simple

Ahmed

I've been in two swap in my crypto life, BT -> BTX and yesterday with DRZ

He is talking about forward compatibility, which is even harder to implement than backward one

But your question itself is very good though: is there an example of a forward compatible swap yet, and any swap done according to these guidelines, or this is just an idle attempt to shoot the moon?

is there any example of a backwards compatable swap yet???

If the old wallet still works, then there's no need to swap the coins. 

If you do swap, but you don't burn the old coins, then you have people selling both coins on different exchanges.  It's happened more than once.

These are good guidelines. I will try it. Thanks.

Certainly aspirational and optimistic and I'm glad you've got the good sense to label it "guidelines" and not rules.

There are often really good reasons for not maintaining backward compatibility -- in the case where a chain moves from a POW to POS variant for instance, the old wallet likely wouldn't work -- and could potentially inject erroneous / unsupported transactions.

IMHO, the best way to facilitate a transparent exchange is by leveraging a neutral third party such as Bittrex to facilitate the swap over some well socialized defined period of time.

The whole thing with cryptocoins is that they are transparent.

If you can't follow all the coins from creation to end, you mine as well create a sql database that stores all the coins and get rid of the blockchain.

this willl never work the coins are better to trade inmarket theres legislations and prices fixed soo this is not the maket im expecting sorry i will just stay aware that for not makret coins can be good.

This can sometimes prove problematic
As a general rule its perfectly valid, however factoring in various techniques developers may wish to employ on their platforms/networks this may not be possible so maintain multiple nodes/blockchains, Also this can be a cause of cross-broadcast messages if not done correctly.

What about a realtime technique, where the swap process occurs transparently to the end-user.. the funds from the old wallet are sent to a burn address and every X number of minutes a poll can request to swap out funds from a specific burn address and change to the new coin and forwarded over to the end-user who instigated the transaction..

Suggestions on how to partially achieve this can be found below:-
https://github.com/casascius/Bitcoin-Address-Utility

https://casascius.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/bitcoin-address-utility/

for the version prefixes as a reference
http://earlz.net/view/2014/10/22/0340/provably-spendable-altcoin-burn-addresses


This is also covered in what I briefly described above. Its just the second part of that sentence..
Send back all the coins in the first block of the new blockchain

For this to happen you need to have determined several variables OR made several assumptions.

What if the coin supply has changed in the new coin which is to be swapped.. OR even decreased supply??
What if you have conflicts on the blockchain..
What if you cannot scrape all the addresses form the BE/BC??
What if end-users don't wish to swap their coins.. stupid i know but what if?? Therefore will it be mandatory swap or voluntary swap process..
What if the algo has changed in the new coin which is being swapped
What if the coin to be swapped has enabled PoW OR simply disable PoS

I'm trying to say sometimes things are not cut and dry kind of thing.. but again in principle its sound!





* Maintain copies of the older blockchains through multiple channels of distribution.
This costs money.. what if the costs of keeping several nodes running and a BE service is prohibitively expensive on a shoe string budget?
Maybe Multiple channels of distributions could be a simple .CSV file containing past TXID OR a recursive bootstrap.dat file containing TX's upto the cutoff block

*Advanced work can be done to create a custom block explorer that combines both blockchains allowing users to search through both seamlessly as 1 chain.
Yes agreed this is a valid approach. but the question arises. Time/funding/technical ability's.?

The added time it takes to arrange something like this
The costs involved in maintaining a solution like this
Developers inabilities to actually produce a working BE which can harmonize both old/new TX in one seamless data stream, Not every developer is compliant?




To have such a hard stance and cynical view on the methods employed by a development team is to harsh.. I can understand many, many people have been burned in the crypto game. But what about that 1/100 genuine developer/coin project which is attacked (maybe by you) even when trying to do something for the best of intentions/reasons to help its community..

personally I don't not think its fair to tar the same brush as the other malicious developers who use cryptos as a scam with those who try to do good things for crytpos and actually believe in what cryptos stands for. Just because they did not adhere to these guidelines above!

Just a suggestions:-
A retro-active follow up maybe a good course of action..
After the swap has ended then follow up with your questions to see if they comply.
BUT first make sure they know what it is they have to comply with before calling SCAM!!!.
Give them time to fix any problems and then allow them to justify legitimate discrepancy and leave it upto the community to decide.
Maybe compile a table showing swap data maybe create a service around it.
kind of like what CryptoAsian has done for Proof of developer (http://proofofdev.com) except use swap data and award a points system.



Hi compmaster,

Im curious whether you would consider buying a coin which has had a small element of manual coin-swapping activity (10% +/-) applied to the coin AFTER an automated swap which reached about (90% +/-) of the total coin supply.?

Take AERO which swapped over to AM (AeroME) In this particular issue most of the coins were taken offline and burned by the Exchange.. as I said approximitly 90+% of the coin supply.
However there is a small portion of users whom were unable to meet the swap date for various reasons and as such were offered a Manual coinswap which happened after the automated swap process. Even these manual swapped coins were also burned. Reason for the manual step was to ensure the swap reached and penitrated with the maximum covrage.

So by using a combination of both Automated/manual swaps (primarily focused on automated swap) does your comment (above) still stand based on the details specified above?

Like I said I'm just curious and interested to find out if indeed there is a case to made to get some kind of "standard" formed and agreed to community wide. A standard consensus on coin-swaps "good-practices" for all alts?

We also realized that It may not be possible to collect the complete total coin supply due to breakages.
As a example of what i mean by breakage coins lost from missing privkeys or coins sent to incorrect accounts, or just human error, etc, etc

This is why we considered a second *MANUAL* swap offering to allow those who had genuine reasons why then missed the official automated swap phase..


Thanks,

Majika

Lead AeroME Developer

I would not advise anyone to buy into a manual coin swapped coin.
Whether you win or lose on value, it's not good to be involved in such a thing.


Many people consider a manual coin swap to be robbery.

These are good guidelines so far.

I will not buy any coin that has engaged in one of these manual coin swaps.

I have started some guidelines for coins thinking of doing a coin swap.



Transparent Crypto Coin Swap Guidelines:

#1 All wallets are forward compatible. Original wallets must work with new blockchains.

#2 Automatic payouts. Find all the addresses + balances. Send back all the coins in the first block of the new blockchain.

#3 Maintain copies of the older blockchains through multiple channels of distribution. Advanced work can be done to create a custom block explorer that combines both blockchains allowing users to search through both seamlessly as 1 chain.


*These guidelines should be followed when possible. There are times where a swap requires a different kind of wallet rendering the coin unable to comply with these guidelines.☬

**Failure to comply with these guidelines will allow for valid scam accusation associated with the coin swap process.

☬If a wallet needs to be upgraded to add features/security, the old wallet should still work with limited features/security.



Please add on to this list or raise issues with the current guidelines. The goal of these guidelines is to allow coins to perform a coin swap without valid scam accusations by being fully transparent about the process.









How to perform a cryptocoin/altcoin coin swap?

Best practice rules when doing a coin swap.

How to send coins from an old blockchain to a newer blockchain.