"Treasury Securities" vs. US National Debt - page 2.

CoinsCoinsEverywhere

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Quote from: meanig on July 29, 2014, 09:31:22 PM

Financing the Debt
Why does the debt sometimes decrease?

The Public Debt Outstanding decreases when there are more redemptions of Treasury securities than there are issues.
How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt?

There are two ways for you to make a contribution to reduce the debt:

You can make a contribution online either by credit card, checking or savings account at Pay.gov
You can write a check payable to the Bureau of the Fiscal Service, and in the memo section, notate that it's a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail your check to:

Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Fiscal Service
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188

Wow. Just wow. I couldn't believe this so I had to look it up. They actually get a few million dollars a year in gift money. Who actually believes this does any good?

hashman

legendary

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Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on July 29, 2014, 09:00:37 PM

Here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

National Debt: $17T
Treasury Securities: $914T

AFAIK "Treasury Securities" are a synonym for "national debt." Then why are Treasury Securities like 50x the National Debt? Am I missing something?

These numbers are all totally unverifiable.

wachtwoord

legendary

Activity: 2324

Merit: 1125

Quote from: twiifm on July 29, 2014, 09:34:22 PM

Quote from: meanig on July 29, 2014, 09:31:22 PM

Quote from: twiifm on July 29, 2014, 09:23:23 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on July 29, 2014, 09:00:37 PM

Here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

National Debt: $17T
Treasury Securities: $914T

AFAIK "Treasury Securities" are a synonym for "national debt." Then why are Treasury Securities like 50x the National Debt? Am I missing something?

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/011404.asp

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm

From the Treasury website

Quote

Financing the Debt
Why does the debt sometimes decrease?

The Public Debt Outstanding decreases when there are more redemptions of Treasury securities than there are issues.
How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt?

There are two ways for you to make a contribution to reduce the debt:

You can make a contribution online either by credit card, checking or savings account at Pay.gov
You can write a check payable to the Bureau of the Fiscal Service, and in the memo section, notate that it's a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail your check to:

Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Fiscal Service
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188

Not even tax deductible. Just a gift. LOL

Just so you know: I also take gifts and I do acvept Bitcoin Wink

Mobius

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Quote from: blumangroup on August 03, 2014, 03:21:08 AM

Quote from: Mobius on August 02, 2014, 04:30:16 PM

Quote from: galbros on July 30, 2014, 05:20:00 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 29, 2014, 10:48:13 PM

Well as I pointed out it is $914B not $914T or $194T. It aligns pretty closely with the amount of net increase in treasuries in 2014 per the report at the end of Q2.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debtposactrpt.htm

2014 YTD Issues:$51,715 Billion
2014 YTD Redemptions: $50,821 Billion
2014 YTD Net Change: $894 Billion

This explains it.

Remember a lot of US Government "debt" is held in trust funds such as the Social Security Trust Fund or (now) on the balance sheet of the Fed.

The amounts held on the balance sheet of the fed is essentially the government loaning money to itself so, in theory this is not really money owed. The process for paying this money back is more or less the "left hand" giving money to the "right hand"

The government will still need to eventually pay this debt to the beneficiaries of the various social programs. I would argue that this is still debt owed to the american people, not the individual programs.

But the programs can be changed via changing the law so that the beneficiaries of the programs would receive less benefits, and/or need to wait longer to be able to receive the benefits. The amount they are to receive is not set in stone, as most social programs have changed many times.

blumangroup

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Activity: 350

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'Slow and steady wins the race'

Quote from: Mobius on August 02, 2014, 04:30:16 PM

Quote from: galbros on July 30, 2014, 05:20:00 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 29, 2014, 10:48:13 PM

Well as I pointed out it is $914B not $914T or $194T. It aligns pretty closely with the amount of net increase in treasuries in 2014 per the report at the end of Q2.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debtposactrpt.htm

2014 YTD Issues:$51,715 Billion
2014 YTD Redemptions: $50,821 Billion
2014 YTD Net Change: $894 Billion

This explains it.

Remember a lot of US Government "debt" is held in trust funds such as the Social Security Trust Fund or (now) on the balance sheet of the Fed.

The amounts held on the balance sheet of the fed is essentially the government loaning money to itself so, in theory this is not really money owed. The process for paying this money back is more or less the "left hand" giving money to the "right hand"

The government will still need to eventually pay this debt to the beneficiaries of the various social programs. I would argue that this is still debt owed to the american people, not the individual programs.

Mobius

hero member

Activity: 988

Merit: 1000

Quote from: galbros on July 30, 2014, 05:20:00 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 29, 2014, 10:48:13 PM

Well as I pointed out it is $914B not $914T or $194T. It aligns pretty closely with the amount of net increase in treasuries in 2014 per the report at the end of Q2.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debtposactrpt.htm

2014 YTD Issues:$51,715 Billion
2014 YTD Redemptions: $50,821 Billion
2014 YTD Net Change: $894 Billion

This explains it.

Remember a lot of US Government "debt" is held in trust funds such as the Social Security Trust Fund or (now) on the balance sheet of the Fed.

The amounts held on the balance sheet of the fed is essentially the government loaning money to itself so, in theory this is not really money owed. The process for paying this money back is more or less the "left hand" giving money to the "right hand"

blumangroup

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

'Slow and steady wins the race'

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 29, 2014, 10:48:13 PM

Well as I pointed out it is $914B not $914T or $194T. It aligns pretty closely with the amount of net increase in treasuries in 2014 per the report at the end of Q2.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debtposactrpt.htm

2014 YTD Issues:$51,715 Billion
2014 YTD Redemptions: $50,821 Billion
2014 YTD Net Change: $894 Billion

The difference is mainly from deficits in entitlement programs. This will likely be reversed when reforms are brought to social security, disability, medicare and medicaid programs.

galbros

legendary

Activity: 1022

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 29, 2014, 10:48:13 PM

Well as I pointed out it is $914B not $914T or $194T. It aligns pretty closely with the amount of net increase in treasuries in 2014 per the report at the end of Q2.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debtposactrpt.htm

2014 YTD Issues:$51,715 Billion
2014 YTD Redemptions: $50,821 Billion
2014 YTD Net Change: $894 Billion

This explains it.

Remember a lot of US Government "debt" is held in trust funds such as the Social Security Trust Fund or (now) on the balance sheet of the Fed.

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

Well as I pointed out it is $914B not $914T or $194T. It aligns pretty closely with the amount of net increase in treasuries in 2014 per the report at the end of Q2.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debtposactrpt.htm

2014 YTD Issues:$51,715 Billion
2014 YTD Redemptions: $50,821 Billion
2014 YTD Net Change: $894 Billion

theonewhowaskazu

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: twiifm on July 29, 2014, 10:24:27 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on July 29, 2014, 09:38:04 PM

Quote from: twiifm on July 29, 2014, 09:23:23 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on July 29, 2014, 09:00:37 PM

Here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

National Debt: $17T
Treasury Securities: $914T

AFAIK "Treasury Securities" are a synonym for "national debt." Then why are Treasury Securities like 50x the National Debt? Am I missing something?

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/011404.asp

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm

None of what I saw there answered my question at all...

I dont know where they got $194T but treasurydirect.gov says $17.6T outstanding treasuries as of 6/30/2014

That website doesn't work on my tablet. Couldn't find the $194T anywhere else

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debtposactrpt.htm

Yes, this is the same response I'm having.

Can anyone explain the $194 number or can I write it off as random BS?

twiifm

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Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on July 29, 2014, 09:38:04 PM

Quote from: twiifm on July 29, 2014, 09:23:23 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on July 29, 2014, 09:00:37 PM

Here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

National Debt: $17T
Treasury Securities: $914T

AFAIK "Treasury Securities" are a synonym for "national debt." Then why are Treasury Securities like 50x the National Debt? Am I missing something?

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/011404.asp

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm

None of what I saw there answered my question at all...

I dont know where they got $194T but treasurydirect.gov says $17.6T outstanding treasuries as of 6/30/2014

That website doesn't work on my tablet. Couldn't find the $194T anywhere else

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/pd_debtposactrpt.htm

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1079

Gerald Davis

No idea where they got that number from but it is $914B not $914T. Maybe it is the total treasury securities issued this year? Remember debt is continually coming due and is paid by issuing "new debt.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/accessible/l209.htm

theonewhowaskazu

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: twiifm on July 29, 2014, 09:23:23 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on July 29, 2014, 09:00:37 PM

Here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

National Debt: $17T
Treasury Securities: $914T

AFAIK "Treasury Securities" are a synonym for "national debt." Then why are Treasury Securities like 50x the National Debt? Am I missing something?

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/011404.asp

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm

None of what I saw there answered my question at all...

theonewhowaskazu

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: meanig on July 29, 2014, 09:19:35 PM

The national debt is the sum of the budget deficits through the years. The government funds the deficit by selling treasuries and then using the cash to pay for government spending.

US Treasuries can also be issued to help banks and other institutions with market liquidity. For example suppose Goldman Sachs might have a "billion dollars" worth of shitty derivatives on its balance sheet which nobody wants (this means their true value is significantly less than a billion dollars). GS can swap their toxic shite for US Treasuries which were issued for sole purpose of facilitating this trade. The shitty derivatives stay on the balance sheet of the Fed and are never sold or spent so they don't add to the national debt.

Wouldn't they just be swapping it for treasury's already on the balance sheet of the Fed though? Or can the Fed randomly just create treasuries too (I thought they could only do that for federal reserve notes).

twiifm

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Activity: 784

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Quote from: meanig on July 29, 2014, 09:31:22 PM

Quote from: twiifm on July 29, 2014, 09:23:23 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on July 29, 2014, 09:00:37 PM

Here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

National Debt: $17T
Treasury Securities: $914T

AFAIK "Treasury Securities" are a synonym for "national debt." Then why are Treasury Securities like 50x the National Debt? Am I missing something?

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/011404.asp

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm

From the Treasury website

Quote

Financing the Debt
Why does the debt sometimes decrease?

The Public Debt Outstanding decreases when there are more redemptions of Treasury securities than there are issues.
How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt?

There are two ways for you to make a contribution to reduce the debt:

You can make a contribution online either by credit card, checking or savings account at Pay.gov
You can write a check payable to the Bureau of the Fiscal Service, and in the memo section, notate that it's a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail your check to:

Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Fiscal Service
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188

Not even tax deductible. Just a gift. LOL

meanig

hero member

Activity: 531

Merit: 501

Quote from: twiifm on July 29, 2014, 09:23:23 PM

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on July 29, 2014, 09:00:37 PM

Here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

National Debt: $17T
Treasury Securities: $914T

AFAIK "Treasury Securities" are a synonym for "national debt." Then why are Treasury Securities like 50x the National Debt? Am I missing something?

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/011404.asp

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm

From the Treasury website

Quote

Financing the Debt
Why does the debt sometimes decrease?

The Public Debt Outstanding decreases when there are more redemptions of Treasury securities than there are issues.
How do you make a contribution to reduce the debt?

There are two ways for you to make a contribution to reduce the debt:

You can make a contribution online either by credit card, checking or savings account at Pay.gov
You can write a check payable to the Bureau of the Fiscal Service, and in the memo section, notate that it's a Gift to reduce the Debt Held by the Public. Mail your check to:

Attn Dept G
Bureau of the Fiscal Service
P. O. Box 2188
Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188

twiifm

hero member

Activity: 784

Merit: 500

Quote from: theonewhowaskazu on July 29, 2014, 09:00:37 PM

Here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

National Debt: $17T
Treasury Securities: $914T

AFAIK "Treasury Securities" are a synonym for "national debt." Then why are Treasury Securities like 50x the National Debt? Am I missing something?

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/04/011404.asp

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm

meanig

hero member

Activity: 531

Merit: 501

The national debt is the sum of the budget deficits through the years. The government funds the deficit by selling treasuries and then using the cash to pay for government spending.

US Treasuries can also be issued to help banks and other institutions with market liquidity. For example suppose Goldman Sachs might have a "billion dollars" worth of shitty derivatives on its balance sheet which nobody wants (this means their true value is significantly less than a billion dollars). GS can swap their toxic shite for US Treasuries which were issued for sole purpose of facilitating this trade. The shitty derivatives stay on the balance sheet of the Fed and are never sold or spent so they don't add to the national debt.

theonewhowaskazu

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Here: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

National Debt: $17T
Treasury Securities: $914T

AFAIK "Treasury Securities" are a synonym for "national debt." Then why are Treasury Securities like 50x the National Debt? Am I missing something?

Topic: "Treasury Securities" vs. US National Debt - page 2. (Read 3384 times)