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Topic: Trickle-down taxation? - page 3. (Read 3718 times)

legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
April 07, 2012, 06:07:47 AM
#10
Um no. It reduces the dividend the company pays.  The consumer pays the maximum he can be charged regardless of the company's costs.  If the consumer is being undercharged, the directors are in breach of their duty.

It will discourage oil production, reducing supply, driving up prices. Though, I don't know if this will affect the pump price much, initially.

Not true.  Oil production is profitable and the market will ensure that the oil gets produced.  Remember, the tax credit only matters AFTER the company has covered its costs and made a profit.  So oil production and supply won't be affected.

The oil companies charge whatever the market will bear.  That is a legal obligation on the directors of the companies.  As far as I know, you could reduce all corporate taxes to zero and it won't affect oil prices, but I'm happy to be corrected on that.

according to your argument, if we tax 99.99% of oil profits then oil production will not be affected. No, it won't directly affect what they charge, but it will drive all capital away from the industry.

supply will be affected and hence so will price.

Good points if only oil companies paid that rate.  However, if all companies were taxed at 99.99% of profits, oil would still be drilled as the return on capital invested in oil is better than most other industries.

To be fair, that's a bit theoretical isn't it?  13% is a long way from 99.99% and right now oil companies pay less than most even though its a more profitable industry.
hero member
Activity: 527
Merit: 500
April 07, 2012, 05:57:00 AM
#9
Um no. It reduces the dividend the company pays.  The consumer pays the maximum he can be charged regardless of the company's costs.  If the consumer is being undercharged, the directors are in breach of their duty.

It will discourage oil production, reducing supply, driving up prices. Though, I don't know if this will affect the pump price much, initially.

Not true.  Oil production is profitable and the market will ensure that the oil gets produced.  Remember, the tax credit only matters AFTER the company has covered its costs and made a profit.  So oil production and supply won't be affected.

The oil companies charge whatever the market will bear.  That is a legal obligation on the directors of the companies.  As far as I know, you could reduce all corporate taxes to zero and it won't affect oil prices, but I'm happy to be corrected on that.

according to your argument, if we tax 99.99% of oil profits then oil production will not be affected. No, it won't directly affect what they charge, but it will drive all capital away from the industry.

supply will be affected and hence so will price.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
April 07, 2012, 05:45:32 AM
#8
Um no. It reduces the dividend the company pays.  The consumer pays the maximum he can be charged regardless of the company's costs.  If the consumer is being undercharged, the directors are in breach of their duty.

It will discourage oil production, reducing supply, driving up prices. Though, I don't know if this will affect the pump price much, initially.

Not true.  Oil production is profitable and the market will ensure that the oil gets produced.  Remember, the tax credit only matters AFTER the company has covered its costs and made a profit.  So oil production and supply won't be affected.

The oil companies charge whatever the market will bear.  That is a legal obligation on the directors of the companies.  As far as I know, you could reduce all corporate taxes to zero and it won't affect oil prices, but I'm happy to be corrected on that.
hero member
Activity: 527
Merit: 500
April 07, 2012, 04:26:15 AM
#7
Um no. It reduces the dividend the company pays.  The consumer pays the maximum he can be charged regardless of the company's costs.  If the consumer is being undercharged, the directors are in breach of their duty.

It will discourage oil production, reducing supply, driving up prices. Though, I don't know if this will affect the pump price much, initially.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
April 07, 2012, 03:14:14 AM
#6
News source U.S. bill ending oil company tax cuts clears Senate hurdle.

I know it is politically advantageous to say you voted to tax the oil companies, but don't politicians realize that taxes is also a cost of doing business.  If the cost of doing business increases either a company wills top doing that business or raise prices.  They can't run a business and sell the product for less than their investors demand.

Are they trying for Trickle-down Taxation now?

Oil companies can cope.  The energy sector is booming.  If taxes are needed, surely the sector that has cash flow to pay them are the sectors to collect from?

EDIT:

wft - http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/26/us-usa-tax-bigoil-idUSBRE82P0DX20120326

13% tax on a hugely profitable company that gets subsidies for its drilling costs and you are complaining ?

Yea I complain because the tax is essentially paid by the consumer.  If I am a street vendor that sells hot dogs and the government increases the tax on hot dog sellers then I will charge my customers the original price + the new tax amount.  When a government increases a tax on a business then they are making that business a tax collector as that business just increases the prices on the goods or services they produce which is paid by the consumer.

Um no. It reduces the dividend the company pays.  The consumer pays the maximum he can be charged regardless of the company's costs.  If the consumer is being undercharged, the directors are in breach of their duty.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
April 07, 2012, 02:32:56 AM
#5
News source U.S. bill ending oil company tax cuts clears Senate hurdle.

I know it is politically advantageous to say you voted to tax the oil companies, but don't politicians realize that taxes is also a cost of doing business.  If the cost of doing business increases either a company wills top doing that business or raise prices.  They can't run a business and sell the product for less than their investors demand.

Are they trying for Trickle-down Taxation now?

Oil companies can cope.  The energy sector is booming.  If taxes are needed, surely the sector that has cash flow to pay them are the sectors to collect from?

EDIT:

wft - http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/26/us-usa-tax-bigoil-idUSBRE82P0DX20120326

13% tax on a hugely profitable company that gets subsidies for its drilling costs and you are complaining ?

Yea I complain because the tax is essentially paid by the consumer.  If I am a street vendor that sells hot dogs and the government increases the tax on hot dog sellers then I will charge my customers the original price + the new tax amount.  When a government increases a tax on a business then they are making that business a tax collector as that business just increases the prices on the goods or services they produce which is paid by the consumer.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
March 29, 2012, 11:38:12 AM
#4
I'm honestly not sure how these subsides work, but why not just stop the subsides rather than raise taxes?

Because then the sites will be drilled by foreign state owned or subsidised firms and the profits will be taxed in foreign jurisdictions.  The subsidy is like the government investing $1 and getting several $100 back.  Raising taxes on the profits is the government getting an even bigger return on the initial investment.

hero member
Activity: 728
Merit: 500
March 28, 2012, 08:40:52 PM
#3
I'm honestly not sure how these subsides work, but why not just stop the subsides rather than raise taxes?
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
March 27, 2012, 07:14:41 AM
#2
News source U.S. bill ending oil company tax cuts clears Senate hurdle.

I know it is politically advantageous to say you voted to tax the oil companies, but don't politicians realize that taxes is also a cost of doing business.  If the cost of doing business increases either a company wills top doing that business or raise prices.  They can't run a business and sell the product for less than their investors demand.

Are they trying for Trickle-down Taxation now?

Oil companies can cope.  The energy sector is booming.  If taxes are needed, surely the sector that has cash flow to pay them are the sectors to collect from?

EDIT:

wft - http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/26/us-usa-tax-bigoil-idUSBRE82P0DX20120326

13% tax on a hugely profitable company that gets subsidies for its drilling costs and you are complaining ?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
March 26, 2012, 07:54:05 PM
#1
News source U.S. bill ending oil company tax cuts clears Senate hurdle.

I know it is politically advantageous to say you voted to tax the oil companies, but don't politicians realize that taxes is also a cost of doing business.  If the cost of doing business increases either a company wills top doing that business or raise prices.  They can't run a business and sell the product for less than their investors demand.

Are they trying for Trickle-down Taxation now?
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