True market price of bitcoins = $20? - page 2.

DoomDumas

legendary

Activity: 1002

Merit: 1000

Bitcoin

Quote from: bobitza on October 11, 2012, 07:49:42 AM

Quote from: Severian on October 11, 2012, 06:59:28 AM

Because mtgox and other methods are a pain for many and ebay is a known entity. Some folks also might not know any better.

That makes sense.

And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods?

I doubt PP will get to understand it, and even worse, admit it as a real good traded.. BTC are kind of their wrost competitor !! Will they get acknoledge BTC, and admit it's a currency or tradable good ?? Let me doubt about it !

GenTarkin

legendary

Activity: 2450

Merit: 1002

crazy ebay prices lol

myself

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

chaos is fun...…damental :)

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2012, 01:38:48 PM

180 days?

maybe for USA but in EU is 30 working days, also chargebacks are not allowed if you need to confirm the purchase via one time use code sent on mobile phone, enabled by default for any purchase online above 50 EUR

DeathAndTaxes

donator

Activity: 1218

Merit: 1080

Gerald Davis

180 days?

myself

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

chaos is fun...…damental :)

Quote from: firefop on October 11, 2012, 12:53:52 PM

Quote from: myself on October 11, 2012, 10:07:49 AM

1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked

This doesn't protect you at all.

The problem with chargebacks is when someone uses a stolen creditcard to pay for purchased via paypal. It all looks good until a week or two later when paypay refunds the transactions (After the creditcard is reported stolen) and you've already mailed your paper wallet.

you can sent the coins only after the charge back time window is closed

mb300sd

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

Drunk Posts

Quote from: firefop on October 11, 2012, 12:53:52 PM

Quote from: myself on October 11, 2012, 10:07:49 AM

1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked

This doesn't protect you at all.

The problem with chargebacks is when someone uses a stolen creditcard to pay for purchased via paypal. It all looks good until a week or two later when paypay refunds the transactions (After the creditcard is reported stolen) and you've already mailed your paper wallet.

But then you have an address to mail tons of steaming dog shit to.

firefop

sr. member

Activity: 420

Merit: 250

Quote from: myself on October 11, 2012, 10:07:49 AM

1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked

This doesn't protect you at all.

The problem with chargebacks is when someone uses a stolen creditcard to pay for purchased via paypal. It all looks good until a week or two later when paypay refunds the transactions (After the creditcard is reported stolen) and you've already mailed your paper wallet.

mobodick

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Yuhfhrh on October 11, 2012, 12:36:55 PM

Quote from: SgtSpike on October 11, 2012, 12:34:56 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Anyone here actually tried this? Seems like it would be nothing to sell 20 bitcoins on ebay for $20 and then buy 33btc back.

...until the user files a Paypal dispute, and you lose because you're selling Bitcoins. I'm not sure that I would count on physically shipping something along with the Bitcoins either - if the customer claims a misrepresentation of the item for sale, Paypal could still very well side with them.

I personally think they are a little undervalued considering the amount of fraud that most certainly takes place.

If, as you say, fraud takes place, then a lower value is fully justified.

ralree

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Manateeeeeeees

Quote from: DannyHamilton on October 11, 2012, 10:00:53 AM

Quote from: bobitza on October 11, 2012, 07:49:42 AM

And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods?

Quote from: Severian on October 11, 2012, 07:55:56 AM

I'd send them a paper bitcoin via the mail as proof of sale.

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2012, 08:02:37 AM

No. In theory it could but PP "investigation" doesn't really care.

Under "Prohibited Activities", the PayPal "Acceptable Use Policy" states:

Quote

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that . . . relate to transactions that . . . involve currency exchanges

So when you try to show proof that you delivered the bitcoin currency, you establish that you are in violation of the PayPal User Agreement 9.1.a.

Wait, so if I buy a $5 CAD face value silver maple coin or a $1 face value silver american eagle coin, the seller is violating that policy? It's legal tender..

Shouldn't I be able to send the buyer a printed bitcoin certificate?

Yuhfhrh

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: SgtSpike on October 11, 2012, 12:34:56 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Anyone here actually tried this? Seems like it would be nothing to sell 20 bitcoins on ebay for $20 and then buy 33btc back.

...until the user files a Paypal dispute, and you lose because you're selling Bitcoins. I'm not sure that I would count on physically shipping something along with the Bitcoins either - if the customer claims a misrepresentation of the item for sale, Paypal could still very well side with them.

I personally think they are a little undervalued considering the amount of fraud that most certainly takes place.

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: ?? on ??

Anyone here actually tried this? Seems like it would be nothing to sell 20 bitcoins on ebay for $20 and then buy 33btc back.

...until the user files a Paypal dispute, and you lose because you're selling Bitcoins. I'm not sure that I would count on physically shipping something along with the Bitcoins either - if the customer claims a misrepresentation of the item for sale, Paypal could still very well side with them.

mobodick

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: Severian on October 11, 2012, 11:47:42 AM

This guy is doing it like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Cent-0-01-and-1-free-Bitcoin-1-0-BTC-Digital-Currency-sent-instantly-/320999754704?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abd138bd0

I might have to try some Ebay selling again.

"Price: US $36.15"

LOL!
I wonder how many he'll actually get sold at that price.

Severian

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

This guy is doing it like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/One-Cent-0-01-and-1-free-Bitcoin-1-0-BTC-Digital-Currency-sent-instantly-/320999754704?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4abd138bd0

I might have to try some Ebay selling again.

adamstgBit

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1038

Trusted Bitcoiner

Quote from: myself on October 11, 2012, 10:07:49 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2012, 08:02:37 AM

Quote from: bobitza on October 11, 2012, 07:49:42 AM

That makes sense.

And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods?

No. In theory it could but PP "investigation" doesn't really care. They are more like "checking the block" and looking for signs of blatantly obvious fraud. There goal isn't to protect you but merely to protect PP brand/image. They have no interest (or time) to do any detailed research of authenticating emails, learning about the blockchain and how that can prove funds were sent.

1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked

PP can still do a charge back if the the acc owner claims he was hacked i think.

and you can only sell so much on ebay. its not like Ebay is trading 10K a day of bitcoins Tongue

i try to sell once and the guy who won never paid, got scared of charge backs and never tried to sell a bitcoin on ebay

https://www.bitcoinary.com/ is good.

Severian

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Yuhfhrh on October 11, 2012, 10:27:09 AM

I meant either way the buyer could just say you shipped them a rock, piece of paper, or nothing. And no matter what paypal is going to refund the buyer. Once they hear "bitcoin" they are going to put their fingers in their ears and say, "la la la paypal policy lalala we are sorry ebay buyer protection lalalalalala"

Hence the high price on Ebay necessitated by any research of the buyer involved and possibility of fraud by the buyer. People seem willing to pay it to get bitcoins.

Yuhfhrh

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: Severian on October 11, 2012, 10:24:39 AM

Quote from: Yuhfhrh on October 11, 2012, 10:12:21 AM

Or the buyer could just say you sent them a blank piece of paper...

Advertise physical bitcoins.

I meant either way the buyer could just say you shipped them a rock, piece of paper, or nothing. And no matter what paypal is going to refund the buyer. Once they hear "bitcoin" they are going to put their fingers in their ears and say, "la la la paypal policy lalala we are sorry ebay buyer protection lalalalalala"

Severian

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Yuhfhrh on October 11, 2012, 10:12:21 AM

Or the buyer could just say you sent them a blank piece of paper...

Advertise physical bitcoins.

Severian

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: DannyHamilton on October 11, 2012, 10:00:53 AM

So when you try to show proof that you delivered the bitcoin currency, you establish that you are in violation of the PayPal User Agreement 9.1.a.

Bitcoin is a commodity, not just a currency. By that rule, silver Eagles and other coins with face value would also be banned.

Yuhfhrh

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: myself on October 11, 2012, 10:07:49 AM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2012, 08:02:37 AM

Quote from: bobitza on October 11, 2012, 07:49:42 AM

That makes sense.

And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods?

No. In theory it could but PP "investigation" doesn't really care. They are more like "checking the block" and looking for signs of blatantly obvious fraud. There goal isn't to protect you but merely to protect PP brand/image. They have no interest (or time) to do any detailed research of authenticating emails, learning about the blockchain and how that can prove funds were sent.

1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked

Or the buyer could just say you sent them a blank piece of paper...

myself

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

chaos is fun...…damental :)

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on October 11, 2012, 08:02:37 AM

Quote from: bobitza on October 11, 2012, 07:49:42 AM

That makes sense.

And for PP chargebacks ... if you show Paypal the ebay mails with the buyer's code and then the transaction details from blockchain explorer, isn't it proof enough that you have delivered the goods?

No. In theory it could but PP "investigation" doesn't really care. They are more like "checking the block" and looking for signs of blatantly obvious fraud. There goal isn't to protect you but merely to protect PP brand/image. They have no interest (or time) to do any detailed research of authenticating emails, learning about the blockchain and how that can prove funds were sent.

1 make a new wallet
2 print in on paper
3 put funds on that wallet
4 sent paper via mail keep prof of sending mail
5 no charge backs can be done anyone who want to charge back scam you is fucked

Topic: True market price of bitcoins = $20? - page 2. (Read 5030 times)