trusted escrow required for approx $400 trade

Cash BTC

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Quote from: EcuaMobi on August 06, 2015, 03:08:15 PM

Either that or he has some hidden motivations to recommend bit2factor. I see he keeps recommending it on every post and thread he makes. It's really suspicious he does that and keeps ignoring the facts and going around the same failing argument he's already said.
That just gives me more reasons to insist nobody should use it or any other automated 2-of-2 escrow.

[ot]
And you are changing subject.
[/ot]

===========================================================================================

Quote from: full_house on August 06, 2015, 03:13:13 PM

its always the same people talking about bit2factor. And their trust feedback seems dodgy as hell
If you own it or have an interest in it just say so, being sneaky like that just makes you seem untrustworthy and undermines the service, no matter how good it may be

Quote from: Cash BTC on August 06, 2015, 09:30:34 AM

I have no interest in promoting this escrow service. This service is based on free and Open-Source software.
Repository: https://github.com/mannkind/bit2factor.org

full_house

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its always the same people talking about bit2factor. And their trust feedback seems dodgy as hell
If you own it or have an interest in it just say so, being sneaky like that just makes you seem untrustworthy and undermines the service, no matter how good it may be

EcuaMobi

legendary

Activity: 1876

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Quote from: vancefox on August 06, 2015, 01:21:06 PM

Just a PSA...

Cash BTC is about as bright as a -40 watt light bulb.. Arguing with him won't get you anywhere except aggravated and drinking to dull the headache.

Either that or he has some hidden motivations to recommend bit2factor. I see he keeps recommending it on every post and thread he makes. It's really suspicious he does that and keeps ignoring the facts and going around the same failing argument he's already said.
That just gives me more reasons to insist nobody should use it or any other automated 2-of-2 escrow.

Cash BTC

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Activity: 154

Merit: 10

Quote from: vancefox on August 06, 2015, 01:21:06 PM

Just a PSA...

Cash BTC is about as bright as a -40 watt light bulb.. Arguing with him won't get you anywhere except aggravated and drinking to dull the headache.

This message is OT.

[ot]
Thank You.
[/ot]

vancefox

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Just a PSA...

Cash BTC is about as bright as a -40 watt light bulb.. Arguing with him won't get you anywhere except aggravated and drinking to dull the headache.

Cash BTC

member

Activity: 154

Merit: 10

Quote from: EcuaMobi on August 06, 2015, 11:33:05 AM

An improvement in what sense? It's extremely risky! Using a trusted person as escrow without any kind of multisig would be absolutely much safer.

It's an imrovement cause you are least are getting back 50.00% of what you have already lost.

Quote from: EcuaMobi on August 06, 2015, 11:33:05 AM

Yes probably you're right. Although 2-of-3 would be automatic too if no problem arises and the escrow doesn't have to act.
But that's just a naming convention, not really important here.

If we clarify this we'll go forward with the conversation.
I refer to 2-2 as automatic escrows.
I refer to 2-3 as escrows with man in the middle.

I know that there are 2-2 escrows that can give full security on the transaction, the security to avoid scams like BIP38 escrows already do (Bit2Factor) and the security against people that wants only to hurts you.

I don't know how they are called: if we get an agreeament on naming we can find better technologies...

Quote from: EcuaMobi on August 06, 2015, 11:33:05 AM

Or if they want to scam you, as in the example I gave. If a scammer do this 10 times to random people I'm sure he'll get that 50% more than 5 times. It's extremely risky and shouldn't be used.

...omissis...

Do you realize that's what I asked? I only know how to do it manually with the addmultisigaddress command. I'd like to see a trusted service that makes 2-of-3 multisig escrow easy.

Do you realize that's what I've asked you now? ...

That's what I'm searching as well: if we find an agreeament on naming on the previous steps we can find better technologies on the subject "escrow".

I refer to 2-2 as automatic escrows (2-ways escrows, BIP38 compliant escrows, multi-sig compliant escrows)
I refer to 2-3 as escrows with man in the middle (3-ways escrows, man-in-the-middle escrows)

I never saw any other escrow system.

Thank You.

Best regards.

EcuaMobi

legendary

Activity: 1876

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Quote from: Cash BTC on August 06, 2015, 11:20:54 AM

If that can be done that's an improvement.

An improvement in what sense? It's extremely risky! Using a trusted person as escrow without any kind of multisig would be absolutely much safer.

Quote from: Cash BTC on August 06, 2015, 11:20:54 AM

I refer to 2-2 as automatic escrows.
I refer to 2-3 as escrows with man in the middle.
What's the difference in your view?

Yes probably you're right. Although 2-of-3 would be automatic too if no problem arises and the escrow doesn't have to act.
But that's just a naming convention, not really important here.

Quote from: Cash BTC on August 06, 2015, 11:20:54 AM

the only risk is if the other party wants to hurt you as I already explained.

Or if they want to scam you, as in the example I gave. If a scammer do this 10 times to random people I'm sure he'll get that 50% more than 5 times. It's extremely risky and shouldn't be used.

Quote from: Cash BTC on August 06, 2015, 11:20:54 AM

Quote from: EcuaMobi on August 06, 2015, 11:14:04 AM

[...] Is there an easy and trusted way to do this?

Do you have some exaples of 2-3 multisig escrows as you define them?

Do you realize that's what I asked? I only know how to do it manually with the addmultisigaddress command. I'd like to see a trusted service that makes 2-of-3 multisig escrow easy.

Cash BTC

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Quote from: EcuaMobi on August 06, 2015, 11:14:04 AM

They can earn something. As Quickseller said they can blackmail you to unlock the funds. For example:

You send the BTC to the multisig address
They never send the fiat
You create a TX to get the BTC back but of course they refuse to sign it
They create a TX where 50% goes to you and 50% goes to them and sign it
They tell you that you can either sign it and lose 50% or not sign it and lose 100%. Now it's your choice to lose everything just not to give free money to the scammer.

If that can be done that's an improvement.

Quote from: EcuaMobi on August 06, 2015, 11:14:04 AM

I would absolutely not recommend using a 2-of-2 multisig automated escrow. Is there a trusted automated 2-of-3 escrow?

I refer to 2-2 as automatic escrows.
I refer to 2-3 as escrows with man in the middle.
What's the difference in your view?

I've used them both and BIP38 compliant escrow (multi-sig 2-2) like Bit2Factor are faster, cheaper, the only risk is if the other party wants to hurt you as I already explained.

Quote from: EcuaMobi on August 06, 2015, 11:14:04 AM

It would have several advantages if it's trusted and open-source:

The escrow wouldn't be able to steal the money on their own. Still it could do it along with one of the dealers but the risk is reduced
Most of the times the escrow wouldn't do anything at all (when both of the dealers are honest)
If a problem arises the escrow can solve it. There can't be a blackmail scenario as the one I described above

I know this can be done manually with commands but it's somewhat difficult to do it normally. Is there an easy and trusted way to do this?

Do you have some examples of 2-3 multisig escrows as you define them?

Company names? Source code? Documentation?

Thank You.

EcuaMobi

legendary

Activity: 1876

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Quote from: Cash BTC on August 06, 2015, 11:02:30 AM

He/she lose nothing neither he gains: he/she wants only to hurt you.

They can earn something. As Quickseller said they can blackmail you to unlock the funds. For example:

You send the BTC to the multisig address
They never send the fiat
You create a TX to get the BTC back but of course they refuse to sign it
They create a TX where 50% goes to you and 50% goes to them and sign it
They tell you that you can either sign it and lose 50% or not sign it and lose 100%. Now it's your choice to lose everything just not to give free money to the scammer. I'm sure a big percentage of people will give up that 50% to get something back. Therefore the scammer will be motivated to do it again.

Quote from: Cash BTC on August 06, 2015, 11:02:30 AM

You can find those people easily.

Then why do you recommend it?

I would absolutely not recommend using a 2-of-2 multisig automated escrow. Is there a trusted automated 2-of-3 escrow? It would have several advantages if it's trusted and open-source:

The escrow wouldn't be able to steal the money on their own. Still it could do it along with one of the dealers but the risk is reduced
Most of the times the escrow wouldn't do anything at all (when both of the dealers are honest)
If a problem arises the escrow can solve it. There can't be a blackmail scenario as the one I described above

I know this can be done manually with commands but it's somewhat difficult to do it normally. Is there an easy and trusted way to do this?

Cash BTC

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Quote from: Quickseller on August 06, 2015, 11:10:17 AM

Because if I don't then I lose 100% of my bitcoin. He has nothing to lose by asking you to do this and you have everything to lose by declining to send 50% to the scammer.

You had already been scammed mate.

I won't send 50.00% of my bitcoins to a scammer after he already scammed me.

"We do not pay ransoms"

Quickseller

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Quote from: Cash BTC on August 06, 2015, 11:07:35 AM

Why would I send 50% of my bitcoins to a scammer?!?

Because if I don't then I lose 100% of my bitcoin. He has nothing to lose by asking you to do this and you have everything to lose by declining to send 50% to the scammer.

Cash BTC

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Quote from: Quickseller on August 06, 2015, 11:04:55 AM

Well the point of using escrow in the first place is to protect yourself against people who are trying to scam you. If he does not agree to release all of the bitcoin to you, then he might be able to get you to agree to have only 50% of the bitcoin released to you and he would get the other 50%.

Why would I send 50.00% of my bitcoins to a scammer?!?

If you agree to trade the other party sends you the FIAT: escrows are useful only as an extra layer of guarantee between honest people, when money is involved assassins and rapist are not here.

There is nobody here trying to hurt you for the sake of hurting you: that is not a definition of scammer, that is a definition of assassin and/or rapist.

Thank you.

Quickseller

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Quote from: Cash BTC on August 06, 2015, 11:02:30 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on August 06, 2015, 10:45:16 AM

@Cash BTC - I would not trust that kind of escrow as if both parties do not agree to release the escrow then the funds would be stuck which would result in a scamming party having an advantage in that they could get the other party to agree to release a portion of the bitcoin to them in exchange for getting some of their money back.

Yes: the only way you can get scammed with automatic escrows (multi-sig, BIP38) is that if the other party wants intentionally to hurt you.

So you send the bitcoins and he never send you the FIAT ever again.

He/she lose nothing neither he gains: he/she wants only to hurt you.

You can find those people easily.

Best regards.

Well the point of using escrow in the first place is to protect yourself against people who are trying to scam you. If he does not agree to release all of the bitcoin to you, then he might be able to get you to agree to have only 50% of the bitcoin released to you and he would get the other 50%.

Cash BTC

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Quote from: Quickseller on August 06, 2015, 10:45:16 AM

@Cash BTC - I would not trust that kind of escrow as if both parties do not agree to release the escrow then the funds would be stuck which would result in a scamming party having an advantage in that they could get the other party to agree to release a portion of the bitcoin to them in exchange for getting some of their money back.

Yes: the only way you can get scammed with automatic escrows (multi-sig, BIP38) is that if the other party wants intentionally to hurt you.

So you send the bitcoins and he never send you the FIAT ever again.

He/she lose nothing neither he gains: he/she wants only to hurt you.

You can find those people easily.

Best regards.

Tomatocage

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brb keeping up with the Kardashians

He probably caught me while I was actually out training (I do parkour whenever I can find anybody to run with me) or at work with no remote access and no spare addresses to use for escrow. I have several machines I use, left over from my days of mining and one is dedicated to only handling escrow transactions

JerryCurlzzz

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Quote from: Tomatocage on August 06, 2015, 10:19:46 AM

Quote from: JerryCurlzzz on August 06, 2015, 09:27:46 AM

I wouldn't recommend you to use Tomatocage / devthedev. Nothing against them, they are well trusted, but they are so slow that you sometimes think they won't come back to complete your deal. Magic8Ball, Quickseller and SebastianJu are the fastest here.

I'm not sure how you'd know if I'm slow or not since I've never escrowed for you -- at least not under that account. Unless you catch me while I'm out away from my escrow computer, most of the deals I escrow are completed within minutes of item delivery.

I just got this from my partner when I told him to use you for our trade.
I'm sorry if it somehow damaged you

devthedev is just slow and this is from my own experience.

Btw, you must be very professional if you have something like "escrow computer" Cheesy

Quickseller

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Quote from: JerryCurlzzz on August 06, 2015, 09:27:46 AM

Quote from: Real14Hero on August 06, 2015, 07:39:15 AM

Check the trusted escrow list here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcointalk-escrows-trade-safely-855778

I recommended you to use one of the big 4

I wouldn't recommend you to use Tomatocage / devthedev. Nothing against them, they are well trusted, but they are so slow that you sometimes think they won't come back to complete your deal. Magic8Ball, Quickseller and SebastianJu are the fastest here.

// I just read that the deal is already going, so sorry.. Tongue

Thanks for the vouch, although I have found that both tomatocgae and devthedev have been very reliable escrow services, and would certainly trust the former with $400 (actually I have trusted him with a lot more then that).

@Cash BTC - I would not trust that kind of escrow as if both parties do not agree to release the escrow then the funds would be stuck which would result in a scamming party having an advantage in that they could get the other party to agree to release a portion of the bitcoin to them in exchange for getting some of their money back.

Tomatocage

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brb keeping up with the Kardashians

Quote from: JerryCurlzzz on August 06, 2015, 09:27:46 AM

I wouldn't recommend you to use Tomatocage / devthedev. Nothing against them, they are well trusted, but they are so slow that you sometimes think they won't come back to complete your deal. Magic8Ball, Quickseller and SebastianJu are the fastest here.

I'm not sure how you'd know if I'm slow or not since I've never escrowed for you -- at least not under that account. Unless you catch me while I'm out away from my escrow computer, most of the deals I escrow are completed within minutes of item delivery.

Cash BTC

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Good afternoon guys,
you could use Bit2Factor.
https://bit2factor.com/

Bit2factor is a completely automatic escrow system, fully BIP38 compliant: it means that you need only to choose a password for the transaction, the third party is made by the bitcoin protocol.

To use Bit2Factor proceed as follow:
1) Go to https://bit2factor.com/ and click on Generate Intermediate Code. Create a passphrase and click on Generate Intermediate Code
2) Send me the Intermediate Code generated at step (1)
3) I will generate BTC Address, Confirmation Code and Private Key and send to you the BTC Address and the Confirmation Code
4) Click on Verify Confirmation Code, insert the passphrase and the Confirmation Code I sent you and click Verify Confirmation Code
5) If the escrow told you OK then I will send the bitcoins to the BTC Address I sent you at step (4)
6) You send me the PayPal funds.
7) I send you the Encrypted Private Key

With the Encrypted Private Key you will click on Decrypt Private Key and enter the passphrase you enter at step (1) and the Encrypted Private Key I just sent you.

Click Decrypt Private Key.

You will receive the PRIVATE KEY (WIF) that you can import in your bitcoin wallet and have the XXX bitcoins I just sent you.

This gives you the guarantee of the transaction without using a person in the middle.

The transaction can be done in 5 minutes: no time lost, no fees, no risks of fraud.

I have no interest in promoting this escrow service. This service is based on free and Open-Source software.
Repository: https://github.com/mannkind/bit2factor.org

JerryCurlzzz

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Activity: 504

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Quote from: Real14Hero on August 06, 2015, 07:39:15 AM

Check the trusted escrow list here
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcointalk-escrows-trade-safely-855778

I recommended you to use one of the big 4

I wouldn't recommend you to use Tomatocage / devthedev. Nothing against them, they are well trusted, but they are so slow that you sometimes think they won't come back to complete your deal. Magic8Ball, Quickseller and SebastianJu are the fastest here.

// I just read that the deal is already going, so sorry.. Tongue

Topic: trusted escrow required for approx $400 trade (Read 791 times)