Two hacks and two approaches - is Bitcoin is looking better than Ethereum?

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: hobbymd on August 08, 2016, 11:53:37 AM

Wrong, Bitcoin is showing that it's open for business to scammers, hackers and criminals without any worries .

It is not wrong, my statement is factually right. Bitcoin has stood for decentralization, censorship resistance and immutability (among other things). As far as criminals are concerned, that's what the law enforcement is for. Stop with the false deductions.

Quote from: hobbymd on August 08, 2016, 11:53:37 AM

Whose gonna use a tech that is a cesspool of criminals and scammers?!?

ETH was created and is being used by criminals.

Quote from: hobbymd on August 08, 2016, 11:53:37 AM

easily stolen with no way of recovering ever back . Plus bitcoin is way way more centralized than other altcoins, the mining sphere in bitcoin is owned by the Chinese and in effect the block chain is owned and controlled by them as well ( top 3 Chinese pools can easily do 51% attack if they wish ) . Just because you might be running a node that doesn't mean bitcoin network is decentralized .

It's quite obvious that your knowledge on the matter is severely limited and/or you're deeply involved with altcoins.

Quote from: MingLee on August 08, 2016, 11:57:52 AM

Any fork for Bitcoin that happens without any large stake of interest from the rest of the community is a useless attempt to change something.

This is a bit incorrect. Any "fork attempt" is controversial/contentious without consensus. Any 'fork' without consensus is an altcoin.

MingLee

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Quote from: adoell on August 08, 2016, 07:04:00 AM

Quote from: Amph on August 08, 2016, 06:57:33 AM

Quote from: Lauda on August 08, 2016, 06:06:37 AM

Quote from: adamstgBit on August 07, 2016, 11:44:40 PM

there's a fork coming for bitcoin too, apprently
https://bitcoinforks.org/

We usually call those altcoins, so this isn't anything special aside from them wanting to market themselves as as relevant to Bitcoin. IIRC I had mentioned that something like "Bitcoin Original" would pop up eventually even though it's based on nonsense.

unless everyone switch to that fork, especially miners and merchants, at that point you can not call it an altcoin anymore

it is very unlikely that the vast majority of bitcoin users will switch to this, as well as merchants and services already adapted to the current fork.

Exactly, unless literally every service, retailer and user switches to the fork there is no point in having the fork occur, and since most services are already adapted to the current system, there is no point changing things unless absolutely necessary.

Any fork for Bitcoin that happens without any large stake of interest from the rest of the community is a useless attempt to change something.

hobbymd

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Quote from: Lauda on August 08, 2016, 09:52:58 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on August 08, 2016, 07:21:08 AM

Bitcoin has shown they will help exchanges steal money.

Wrong. Bitcoin is showing that it stands behind the values that it was created for.

Wrong, Bitcoin is showing that it's open for business to scammers, hackers and criminals without any worries .

Whose gonna use a tech that is a cesspool of criminals and scammers?!? easily stolen with no way of recovering ever back . Plus bitcoin is way way more centralized than other altcoins, the mining sphere in bitcoin is owned by the Chinese and in effect the block chain is owned and controlled by them as well ( top 3 Chinese pools can easily do 51% attack if they wish ) . Just because you might be running a node that doesn't mean bitcoin network is decentralized .

macedoniantable

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As a bitcoiner since I first heard of it, ethereum is look mighty intiesing right about now. Undecided

pinkflower

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Quote from: CIYAM on August 04, 2016, 12:36:38 PM

We have seen the hacking attack of reportedly 60M USD from Bitfinex and the attack of the DAO for reportedly around double that amount.

But after both attacks we have seen two very different things happen.

In the case of the Bitfinex attack there isn't even the slightest suggestion that some sort of "hard fork" would be offered by the Bitcoin Core developers (so they are just going to have to wear their loss for their mistake) but in the case of Ethereum we have now ended up in a "fork war" with ETH vs. ETC (and ironically ETC is actually the "original" code with ETH now being a fork).

Opinions?

In my opinion anyone even suggesting to do a hard fork to bail out a few key people in Bitcoin will be taken as some sort of joke. No one would dare suggest it.

Let me ask you this. Who among the big investors of the DAO are the more prominent Bitcoiners?

I suggest asking them what their opinions are.

vapourminer

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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?

forking to present theft after the fact will appeal to those who like centralized stuff for "protection." whether the centralized authority is a government, foundation or single person is the only real difference here. ergo, the forked ethereum will appeal to some mindsets.

purists who want absolutely no interference (like fixing User Error or hacks) will like etc, btc. if it happens, it happens. thats all there is to it.

in crypto there is room for both kinds. imo, of course.

Lauda

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Terminated.

Quote from: philipma1957 on August 08, 2016, 07:21:08 AM

Bitcoin has shown they will help exchanges steal money.

Wrong. Bitcoin is showing that it stands behind the values that it was created for.

Quote from: philipma1957 on August 08, 2016, 07:21:08 AM

Eth-Etc has shown they will make an effort to prevent a major theft or exploit.

They have demonstrated an unhealthy way of forking for the sake of a bailout. The "code is law" and whatnot was an outright lie.

Quote from: philipma1957 on August 08, 2016, 07:21:08 AM

Bitcoin does not scale it does 300,000 transactions per day on average max is just under 700,000.

This is incorrect as well. Segwit will up the TPS to about ~180% on average and more on-chain improvements are expected in the future.

celebreze32

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Quote from: Backside walkaround on August 08, 2016, 07:26:53 AM

I never understood the big deal with eth anyway, but the whole hardfork thing just cemented the shitcoin tag for it in my mind. Bitcoin is money, and the rest of these clown coins are destined to fail. Especially if they try to reverse a hack by forking.

If someone steals a hoard of bank notes from a bank those notes don't become un-spendable. If the police never figure out who robbed the bank the robber keeps the money. It's the same with Bitcoin, a thief robbed Bitfinex and gets to keep the money provided the police never figure out who robbed it.

With Ethereum stolen coins become un-spendable so it's not proper money.

Bitcoin takes the best approach for a coin that is money.

oksana28

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For ETH-ETC, I feel that it is yet another highly crafted and sophisticated Pump_Dump scheme.

yayayo

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Quote from: pereira4 on August 08, 2016, 07:02:49 AM

~~Luke JR is a troll.~~ The fact that there is still people pushing for a "big blocks" agenda shows how dumb/vested interest behind that they are. Anyone with a brain in 2016 knows scaling on-chain it's impossible unless you don't care that the network becomes more centralized and stupid without a conservative approach, that's why Core is and will remain the #1. There will never be enough consensus to hard fork Bitcoin for mindless experiment's sake. The conservative approach which is the approach that has made Bitcoin able to survive for this long, will remain the chosen one. Every alternative will end up like Classic/XT because they are unprofessional amateur punks without nothing to show.

I agree, but I don't share your opinion regarding Luke JR. He has made significant contributions to Core.

The big block agenda has largely failed, because Core developers came up with a much more intelligent solution. Also many initial supporters (excluding some Gavinista lunatics) are realizing that the doomsday scenarios painted by the FUD campaign during the XT/ClassicCoin launch attempts failed to materialize. Despite the shiny extrapolation graphic that was widely circulated and contained a red painted failure zone since the beginning of this year, the Bitcoin network is more healthy than ever.

Core continues to innovate, because it has the most intelligent developers behind it. The departure of Hearn and (inofficially) Andresen was a great relief.

ya.ya.yo!

Backside walkaround

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I never understood the big deal with eth anyway, but the whole hardfork thing just cemented the shitcoin tag for it in my mind. Bitcoin is money, and the rest of these clown coins are destined to fail. Especially if they try to reverse a hack by forking.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Bitcoin has shown they will help exchanges steal money.

Eth-Etc has shown they will make an effort to prevent a major theft or exploit.

Bitcoin does not scale it does 300,000 transactions per day on average max is just under 700,000.

Thus off chain deals are needed to move the coin.

What are off chain deals moves on exchanges like Bitfinex

What happens when a necessary exchange gets hacked for its bitcoins. Thats right Bitcoin helps them to steal it.

If anyone thinks Bitcoin won out in the Eth-Etc fork they are sadly mistaken.

As a complete side bar. If I mine ETH-ETC I use real pc's with real warrantees. If I mine BTC I use asics from companies that refuse to honor them.

Go watch the Movie "The Big Short" the guy sees the housing bubble and bets on it.

I see a real problem for BTC this year.

I made a move I spilt my mining ½ ETC-ETH ½ BTC

BTCLovingDude

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BTC to the moon is inevitable...

Quote from: adamstgBit on August 07, 2016, 11:44:40 PM

Quote from: CIYAM on August 04, 2016, 12:36:38 PM

Opinions?

there's a fork coming for bitcoin too, apprently
https://bitcoinforks.org/

we even have luke-jr posting his comments on the consider it page Cheesy

https://btcfork.consider.it/

IMO this fork will fail to gain any significant support like ETC did.
but its worth a look at what they are doing, its interesting to say the least.

the part about "Who is behind this project?" is not even saying who is supporting it. so i can assume that since anybody can buy a domain and hosting it is some random users trying to create some commotion.

none of the miners or developers have ever expressed any desire to remain anonymous while working on bitcoin so far, and that is another reason for assuming some random users with some other agenda.

and as for their success, with no community, no miner, no developer supporting them they will fail much harder than bitcoin XT, classic and all the others.

adoell

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BitcoinBloom

Quote from: Amph on August 08, 2016, 06:57:33 AM

Quote from: Lauda on August 08, 2016, 06:06:37 AM

Quote from: adamstgBit on August 07, 2016, 11:44:40 PM

there's a fork coming for bitcoin too, apprently
https://bitcoinforks.org/

We usually call those altcoins, so this isn't anything special aside from them wanting to market themselves as as relevant to Bitcoin. IIRC I had mentioned that something like "Bitcoin Original" would pop up eventually even though it's based on nonsense.

unless everyone switch to that fork, especially miners and merchants, at that point you can not call it an altcoin anymore

it is very unlikely that the vast majority of bitcoin users will switch to this, as well as merchants and services already adapted to the current fork.

pereira4

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Quote from: adamstgBit on August 07, 2016, 11:44:40 PM

Quote from: CIYAM on August 04, 2016, 12:36:38 PM

Opinions?

there's a fork coming for bitcoin too, apprently
https://bitcoinforks.org/

we even have luke-jr posting his comments on the consider it page Cheesy

https://btcfork.consider.it/

IMO this fork will fail to gain any significant support like ETC did.
but its worth a look at what they are doing, its interesting to say the least.

Luke JR is a troll. The fact that there is still people pushing for a "big blocks" agenda shows how dumb/vested interest behind that they are. Anyone with a brain in 2016 knows scaling on-chain it's impossible unless you don't care that the network becomes more centralized and stupid without a conservative approach, that's why Core is and will remain the #1. There will never be enough consensus to hard fork Bitcoin for mindless experiment's sake. The conservative approach which is the approach that has made Bitcoin able to survive for this long, will remain the chosen one. Every alternative will end up like Classic/XT because they are unprofessional amateur punks without nothing to show.

Amph

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Quote from: Lauda on August 08, 2016, 06:06:37 AM

Quote from: adamstgBit on August 07, 2016, 11:44:40 PM

there's a fork coming for bitcoin too, apprently
https://bitcoinforks.org/

We usually call those altcoins, so this isn't anything special aside from them wanting to market themselves as as relevant to Bitcoin. IIRC I had mentioned that something like "Bitcoin Original" would pop up eventually even though it's based on nonsense.

unless everyone switch to that fork, especially miners and merchants, at that point you can not call it an altcoin anymore

pereira4

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Quote from: CIYAM on August 04, 2016, 12:36:38 PM

We have seen the hacking attack of reportedly 60M USD from Bitfinex and the attack of the DAO for reportedly around double that amount.

But after both attacks we have seen two very different things happen.

In the case of the Bitfinex attack there isn't even the slightest suggestion that some sort of "hard fork" would be offered by the Bitcoin Core developers (so they are just going to have to wear their loss for their mistake) but in the case of Ethereum we have now ended up in a "fork war" with ETH vs. ETC (and ironically ETC is actually the "original" code with ETH now being a fork).

Opinions?

ETC is severely damaged forever as a project, and the reputation of its leader, Vitalik Buterin, it's also perpetually damaged after he tried to stop exchanges, after he bailed out investors with a very questionable hardfork, and after the hard fork due it being rushed presents huge problems like the replay attack.

The only reason ETC is not higher than ETH is because ETH has the inertia of being the bigger chain, but eventually the tide will change and ETC will take over. ETH fundamentals are doomed.

calme

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There's probably more than two Ethereums out there

NorrisK

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Quote from: Slark on August 08, 2016, 06:36:44 AM

Why exactly we need bitcoin developers to act every time some pathetic satellite service like exchange is hacked?
I am against interventionism of any kind. And that DAO hack was completely different case because it was linked to be coin foundations.

I agree that developers should never interfere if nothing is wrong on a protocol level and a service on top has messed their stuff up.

The only reason the ethereum devs could even think about forking was that they did not have to reverse any transactions. The DAO funds were still locked and they only had to make sure that they would never be moved again or in this case, that the funds were put in a different contract.

After an exchange hack, a rollback is impossible due to the thousands of transactions every block, which would be reversed.

Slark

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Why exactly we need bitcoin developers to act every time some pathetic satellite service like exchange is hacked?
I am against interventionism of any kind. And that DAO hack was completely different case because it was linked to be coin foundations.

Topic: Two hacks and two approaches - is Bitcoin is looking better than Ethereum? (Read 2083 times)